Originally Posted by goodvibes
So I can't have an opinion unless I provide you proof.
If that's all it was sure, but realize you're going to be asked to substantiate it regardless because of where you're posting. Instead, you had an opinion and basically told those that ask for evidence to shut-up, because of your opinion.
Not how it works in the real world or in forums.
LOL Rationalize what you want. The demanding proof should back down was in response to I should back down if I can't provide enough to satisfy. I always find it amusing how easily one gets called out for repeating something considered acceptable from another point of view. Your position is as obtuse as mine. I just don't go demanding of others.
Null is an accepted defacto in the scientific method. If I said there's a flying spaghetti monster you'd ask for proof, or if there was a really awesome deal on gear I claimed was legit from China. People want proof. Furthermore, my view isn't obtuse -- there's plenty of DBT that agree with my position and for the most part the position held here.
For someone claiming an open mind you should probably watch this:
Take a chill pill and deal with it.
I'm hardly the one that's incapable of keeping my emotions in check when it comes to this debate. You're crying the victim and acting as if there's a witch hunt and great persecution of audio believers -- even though you can post your opinion just about anywhere else on this board without fear of anyone asking for "proof".
I could relate results of a blind test and you could just as easily decide not to believe me and claim subjectivity. In the past when results like these have come forward they've always been attacked or ignored and why it's useless to even bother. It's a forum. Your welcome to your views as I should be to mine. I know what I know and believe what I believe from my experience as do you. Show me the mechanism of gravity or it doesn't exist.
You're . . . . not particularly skilled at debating are you? The mechanisms of gravity are pretty well outlined and peer reviewed. It's not a simple "I believe in gravity", it is measurable.
There's more to experience than measurement and it's either very uninformed or pompous to believe that we know how to measure everything. Science is as much understanding as it is measurement and a good scientist will know that he doesn't know everything. When you're doing target function engineering, of course measurement and inductive design take precedent but discovery is not intuitive and requires an open mind. I doubt that the stock switching supply on Young DAC measures much different than a good linear one set to the exact same voltage but I can assure it sounds different. I have done that one blind to be sure and I set the regulated voltage. If you don't think that manufacturers listen and voice after an initial design, you're in the dark about how things come to market after the initial engineering is done. Not as much with the cheaper stuff where R+D is prohibitive but basically everything else. One can argue subjective better and worse but different? It just is.
Let's see what you've done in this part of your post. You're arguing that we don't know how to measure audible aspects, and as such our understanding is insufficient (in-spite of numerous DBTs). You then propose a SMPS probably measures the same as regulated with no evidence, then proceed to claim it makes a difference when we don't know how it measures. We don't have measurements of it, so we don't know if the PSU suffers from substantial ripple causing audible issues do we now? You're going out of your way to create a straw man to attack us, and I don't find it amusing in the least.
Filters have been pretty poor since the inception of digital sound and are just now coming around with proper oversampling (not asrc up) and multiple lesser slopes to prevent ring and phase issues.
Those ring and phase issues are more questionably audible than jitter. As in, no-one has been able to DBT them. A slope filter is an elegant solution for a problem that pretty much is already handled in a superior fashion.
If one wants to know why I did a one line hit and run earlier in this thread. this argument is it. This subject always turns into the same endless debate fueled by those that want it simple and I suspect participate in that manner to create self fulfilling unresolved setups. Yes, admitted conjecture and more power to you if you're happy and can save the bucks. I really mean that but preaching that folks should not approach this with an open mind is just counter productive. All I ever want is for folks to listen for themselves and form their own opinions. Not be gestapoed into your perspective because you demand proof that you will refute or find insufficient if given.
Naivety and open mindedness are two very different things. I urge anyone that hasn't already watched the video I posted earlier do so now. Hopefully after you do not make the same mistake this person repeatedly has by misrepresenting the posters here as "closed minded".
As for why you did a one hit run, it's presumably because you can't substantiate a position and must shout down others while trolling effectively.
I never said Opamp rolling was a great thing but there are usually a few that work correctly in circuit and will sound different. I'm well aware of the poor choices some DIYs make but there's also factory approved swaps. Not my thing as I'm a discrete kind of guy but I find it interesting that you challenge the entire concept because you don't like the premise od sonic variety. For someone claiming to care more about what comes out, you seem more concerned with mearurements.
Measurements are ultimately what comes out. Furthermore, I dislike you representing my position with a straw man again. I said nothing of sonic variety, there's plenty of OTL tube amps that measurably provide a difference. The opamp modifications don't to a degree of audibility unless something was horribly wrong before, after, or in both instances.
I've said my piece and will not continue this endless debate here. Have at me if you like but I am entitled to my views whether you care for them or not. All I ever ask is that folks listen for themselves and not be bullied.
No one here is being bullied honestly. You just don't like that the evidence agrees with our position, one that you're so vehemently against.