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All DAC's sound the same. - Page 17  

post #241 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post


Why would you join a forum that celebrates the diversity of audio products if you feel that they are all the same???

 

Kind of like an Atheist joining a Catholic church just to rant and rave about there not being a Heaven or Hell.

 

 



 


Well this ought to end the debate. At least for this thread.
post #242 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post



Well this ought to end the debate. At least for this thread.


Yeah I think someones head exploded after they read that post....LOL.

 

gil-head-explode-again.gif

post #243 of 373

^ - the secret is in the abbreviation "fi" or fidelity - or faithfulness - the idea that your rig produces an accurate facsimile of the recorded sound 

 

- at the business end (headphones and speakers) fidelity is much much harder to acheive, distortion and noise and non-linearities are much more of a problem and then there is the whole accurate vs nice sound issue which is too subjective for comfort (I doubt that my ancient Wharfedale Delta 70s represent flat accurate sound) , but up to that point if we are really interested in "Fidelity" as opposed to a "nice sound" we really should expect kit to not interfere with the music too much - this for competent modern digital kit is pretty trivial to acheive...

 

As Mark Twain says

 

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please

post #244 of 373
^@ happy camper In a good or bad way?
Edited by dilpal - 6/30/11 at 8:27am
post #245 of 373


Then why did you purchase the gear that you have, knowing from the start that they are incapable of fidelity???

 

Seems like you have some nice gear...why not just grab the first thing off the shelf??

 

Art thou a hypocrite???

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

^ - the secret is in the abbreviation "fi" or fidelity - or faithfulness - the idea that your rig produces an accurate facsimile of the recorded sound 

 

- at the business end (headphones and speakers) fidelity is much much harder to acheive, distortion and noise and non-linearities are much more of a problem and then there is the whole accurate vs nice sound issue which is too subjective for comfort (I doubt that my ancient Wharfedale Delta 70s represent flat accurate sound) , but up to that point if we are really interested in "Fidelity" as opposed to a "nice sound" we really should expect kit to not interfere with the music too much - this for competent modern digital kit is pretty trivial to acheive...

 

As Mark Twain says

 

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please



 

post #246 of 373

@Dynobot.

Celebrate the diversity of audio products? THAT is what you think this forum is for? This forum is where people discuss how to make their music sound better. In this particular sub-forum people don't believe in blowing money on differences that exist only in their minds.

This is a forum for people who love good sound...how you could ever arrive at your conclusion is rather unclear, to say the least. 

Your atheist example is inapplicable. This is the Sound Science forum - this wonderful area of the site where people acknowledge that their senses are not infallible. If you have anything worthwhile to bring to the discussion other than pointing out contradictions and paradoxes that don't exist, please do so.

 

Your interpretation of the purpose of the forum is perhaps a sad reflection on the state of this industry - instead of getting gear that measures well and enjoying their music, we have a bunch of people spending huge sums of money on differences that only exist when they know what they're listening to.

 

Your smug conclusions about how all this is a waste of time may satisfy you, but rational people remain unconvinced.

 

EDIT: Looking at your response to nick_charles, you are being purposefully obtuse. Talk about a rabid dog grabbing the wrong end of the stick.


Edited by Willakan - 6/30/11 at 8:43am
post #247 of 373

I merely asked Mr. Charles why he purchased all that nice expensive gear.

 

After all, a pair of $800 headphones sounds the same as a $50 pair....doesn't it???

 

Something led him to spend thousands of dollars on different headphones.

 

BTW, I see Schiit came out with a new Dac and has plans on coming out with a Higher End version.  You might want to give them a piece of your mind about this subject.  Please protect the innocent....

post #248 of 373
+1 for Willakan
post #249 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by monoethylene View Post

The thread came down to ignorance..


it came down to what it started from.

 

post #250 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post




it came down to what it started from.

 



+1

post #251 of 373

Good lord, you're a sarcastic glutton for punishment. If you really can't see why the points you are making are misinterpreting what the person is saying...

Just to point it out, no-one is saying anything about headphones sounding the same. You are leaping to irrational conclusions roughly extrapolated from what he said in an effort to make his opinion seem ridiculous. The point about using a straw man in an argument is that it isn't meant to be transparently obvious that that is the case. To provide a useful example (opinions below not representative of anyone in particular):

 

Person One: I think we should send less aid to Third World nations until we can be sure where it is going and that it is not being used by corrupt officials.

Person Two: YOU WANT TO STARVE INNOCENT CHILDREN!?

 

This is not a plausible way of arguing. If you have anything better to bring to the table other than making various self-indulgent cheap shots that are not founded in either evidence or common sense (eg comment on Schitt DAC), please do so now. Alternatively, stop derailing the thread with your observations about how this thread is pointless.


Edited by Willakan - 6/30/11 at 9:30am
post #252 of 373



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post


Then why did you purchase the gear that you have, knowing from the start that they are incapable of fidelity???

 

Seems like you have some nice gear...why not just grab the first thing off the shelf??

 

Art thou a hypocrite???



 

 

FTR my home rig is the following. PC(optical)  or WD HDTV(optical)  or Denon DCD910(optical)  or Marantz CC4300 (optical or coax)  --->Entech 203.2 (or very rarely Onkyo DX1400 analog outputs ) -----MisterX M^3 amplifier to HD580/AD700/A500 - the Entech cost me $50, the Denon cost me $17, the Onkyo cost $20 or so,  the WD HDTV cost me $115, the amp cost me $238 plus $25 for power supply and the Marantz cost me a whopping $225.

 

My work rig is a 2nd WD HDTV a Tianyun Zero DAC ($168 with shipping) an old Rotel RA820BX ($100) and Wharfedale Delta 70 speakers ($110) (headphones HD535)

 

- this is far from boutique stuff. Almost of the time at home I use the PC or WD HDTV rather than the exorbitantly expensive Marantz. 

 

In the past I have owned more expensive kit in the days when I genuinely believed that (digital) sources were normally fundamentally highly different but then when I got a Niles Audio switch box and was able to do timely direct sync'd comparisons the fundamental differences seemed to go, so then I started recording samples and level matching and DBTing and indeed my CD players that were from 3 different decades and with widly different topologies were (to me) indistinguishable. They were still measurably different but the measurable differences did not translate to easily audible differences. So I started looking more widely and researching stuff, I joined the AES and went through 100s of their papers. Rather than accept audiophile assumptions I started to ask "why should two things be different"  - what is the basis for perceived audible differences and how reliable are these perceptions ( my background is in Psychology)  after much web research it appears that very often these perceived differences are simply not reliable and where they are reliable there are easily measurable differences.

 

This does not mean that all DACs will sound the same but all competent DACs should sound the same. To me this is more liberating than threatening. I am happily listening to the Planets on my $20 or so Onkyo right now. Frankly it is absurd, I have a stack of 3 CD players but somehow I just cannot bring myself to throw another one out, I used to have a Magnavox CDB650 in the stack as well but this had a very low WAF and it was a tad mechanically noisy..


 

 


Edited by nick_charles - 6/30/11 at 9:52am
post #253 of 373


Fair enough.

 

Could it be...perhaps, just maybe that over the years your hearing acuity along with the sense of worth for audio components has changed??? 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
 

 

post #254 of 373

Interesting thread, well some contributions are more interesting that others wink_face.gif

post #255 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post

Why would you join a forum that celebrates the diversity of audio products if you feel that they are all the same???

 

Kind of like an Atheist joining a Catholic church just to rant and rave about there not being a Heaven or Hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post

This thread is a Paradox.

 

A Website that has a forum dedicated to celebrating the diversity of audio products with a thread denouncing the validity of diversity.


I'm here for the headphones.  Transducers do sound different.  There's plenty good evidence of that.  In fact they sound so different that the odds are a difference you hear is actually a real difference and not just something that's in your head.

 

Who said that all headphones sounded the same?

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