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i can't hear a difference between fiio e7 and my onboard sound. - Page 3

post #31 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhimay View Post

I'm surprised no one has brought up the headphones he's using. The question is, does Shure SRH840 really benefit from amping? 



no it doesn't benefit from amping but i assumed a dac would improve upon my onboard.

post #32 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by user02 View Post

^You mean lower efficency headphones.  LCD-2 has 50ohm impedance, and it's not easy to drive.  I wouldn't drive it from a laptop nor E9.  I'm just saying none of the 3 I have mentioned is worth it, even at a cheap price.  If I had hard to drive headphones of low sensitivity like HD800 or LCD-2, E9 would be on the bottom of the list.  There is no point of purchasing those headphones if I only had a E9.


I beg to differ.  The E9 pushes out 80mw into 600ohms no clipping and measuring up to level of inaudibility with ease.  The HD800 has a sensitivity of 102dB, so 80mW means it can max out at 121dB before clipping.  As for the LCD-2 at 50 ohms the Fiio E9 is producing well over 300mw of power not clipping.  This is enough headroom for 24dB over sensitivity (91dB) . . . meaning 115dB peak minimum.  Obviously not nearly as underpowered as you might think.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcasey25raptor View Post


no it doesn't benefit from amping but i assumed a dac would improve upon my onboard.


And that's the problem -- your computer was actually doing fine for the most part.  The E7 might be worth having if you have or plan to use a laptop in the future, but with your current setup it may be best to bite the shipping cost and return in.

 

 


Edited by Shike - 6/26/11 at 9:32pm
post #33 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shike View Post

 

This idea that money makes the amp rather than the engineering is growing tiring.  Golden ear claims need to take a backseat to logic . . .


 

 

Most of the E9s critics have never even heard it - I know, as I was in that boat myself. It still defies logic that something this cheap can sound this good and put out this much power.
 

 

post #34 of 75

Actually I have heard it, and I have heard HD800 on many tube amps, which outputs more power than the E9.  The HD800 out of any of my tube amps did not sound as good as the beta22 that I've heard at a meet.  HD800 clipped on a tube amp at very low volume yet it did not with my HD650.  The sensitivity tells you how much power per loudness, but not the performance.  Some headphones are amp dependent, such as the LCD-2 and HD800 I've just mentioned.  I am not stating that E9 is cheap so therefore, it is not a good amp.  I'm saying it's not a good amp, and just because it is cheap doesn't mean it is worth it.  HD800 and LCD-2 are amp dependent.  I suggest testing it out with various amps, and let me know if you are happy with E9. wink.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post



 

Most of the E9s critics have never even heard it - I know, as I was in that boat myself. It still defies logic that something this cheap can sound this good and put out this much power.
 

 



 


Edited by user02 - 6/26/11 at 9:49pm
post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcasey25raptor View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhimay View Post

I'm surprised no one has brought up the headphones he's using. The question is, does Shure SRH840 really benefit from amping? 

 

no it doesn't benefit from amping but i assumed a dac would improve upon my onboard.


Hmmm - opposite to what I found.  Does it need amping? - no.  Does it benefit? - on my set-up, with my ears, yes.  Jeez Casey even said so himself on one of his previous threads - and that was just with the E5.

 

Seems to be a lot of mind changing here - one minute it does, next it doesn't ..... very confusing.

post #36 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by user02 View Post

I suggest testing it out with various amps, and let me know if you are happy with E9. wink.gif
 

 

Absolutely no problem - I'd be more than happy to sample any number of desktop amps - I'd even take the afternoon off work to do so. Comparing the E9 to amps costing 5-10 times as much is just completely unfair, but I am not about to pretend that said amps wouldnt outperform the Fiio : the question is whether they would be 5-10 times *better*.

 

For me, the next step up the ladder is an amp that gets almost zero keystrokes on HF, but that hasnt dimmed my ardour one bit:

 

http://www.talisman-audio.com/products/headphone/t3h.html

 

but that will have to wait until I have headphones that NEED an amp of that calibre.

 

post #37 of 75

Did you make sure to set the E7 as default in the Sound properties? If you did, then you probably are just expecting too much from a $100 product.

post #38 of 75

Quality does not always scale with price.  But demand because of poplularity pushes the price.  Does quality make it poplular?  We cannot be sure of that.  I have a external sound card that I got for $50 that performs really well for IEMs.  You do not need to break bank to get a good product.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallville View Post

Did you make sure to set the E7 as default in the Sound properties? If you did, then you probably are just expecting too much from a $100 product.



 

post #39 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post




Hmmm - opposite to what I found.  Does it need amping? - no.  Does it benefit? - on my set-up, with my ears, yes.  Jeez Casey even said so himself on one of his previous threads - and that was just with the E5.

 

Seems to be a lot of mind changing here - one minute it does, next it doesn't ..... very confusing.



let me rephrase that. it doesn't benefit substantially from an amp. only thing i noticed was a slightly clearer more bassy sound.

post #40 of 75

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by user02 View Post

The sensitivity tells you how much power per loudness, but not the performance.

 

That's great and all, but there's nothing wrong with the E9's measurable performance for the headphones you've mentioned.  I'd also wager nothing wrong with subjective either if we were level matching and slapping a blindfold on someone.

 

Quote:
Some headphones are amp dependent, such as the LCD-2 and HD800 I've just mentioned.

 

Where's the proof besides subjective anecdotes?  I remember when people were saying the K701 is hard to drive (which is laughable, the K601 is a much more difficult load and my Mini^3 handled it just fine).  Some of us are more fact and numbers driven, do you have any to support your claim?

 

 

Quote:
I am not stating that E9 is cheap so therefore, it is not a good amp.  I'm saying it's not a good amp.

 

Put your money where your mouth is.  In engineering terms, what's wrong with it?  This means no audiophile vocab such as "brittle, sterile, sparkle, bloat" etc.  If you're saying it's a bad amp you better be able to empirically tell us why it is so.

 

Here, I'll even throw you a bone.  The impedance on the 3.5 jack is too high, and the 1/4 jack is still high at 10 ohms.  This means reactive loads below 100 ohms will probably notice a FR deviation (worth noting, planar magnetic headphones are mostly resistive so won't be effected and the HD800 impedance is too high to experience a FR deviation).

 

Quote:
and just because it is cheap doesn't mean it is worth it.  HD800 and LCD-2 are amp dependent.  I suggest testing it out with various amps, and let me know if you are happy with E9. wink.gif

 

I suggest you try them with various amps, blinded and level matched before making such claims.

 

 

Don't mind me though, I think we all have tin ears in reality.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Absolutely no problem - I'd be more than happy to sample any number of desktop amps - I'd even take the afternoon off work to do so. Comparing the E9 to amps costing 5-10 times as much is just completely unfair, but I am not about to pretend that said amps wouldnt outperform the Fiio : the question is whether they would be 5-10 times *better*.

 

I wouldn't assume amps costing five to ten times more would beat the Fiio.  There was a guy selling amps on here not too long ago that screwed a bunch of people with expensive amps that were built wrong.  SinglePower wasn't it?  Furthermore, we have to bring the level of audibility into question.  Is .00001% of distortion going to make an audible difference?  Same with SNR and other measurable attributes. 

 

If you told me "Hey, I have this highly reactive 30-300 ohm headphone" and were planning on using it with the E9 I'd say it's an awful idea due to the E9's output impedance . . . by all means there's better amps in such a case.   The case doesn't apply to the two headphones listed though.


Edited by Shike - 6/27/11 at 1:06am
post #41 of 75

Hey OP,

 

I think I have told you most of what to expect from a portable DAC in your previous thread. I don't think you should be all that surprised.

 

Also, from experience, headphones with larger soundstage benefit more from better DACs. I had an Audio Technica W2002 that made almost no change from my onboard soundcard to my Anedio D1, while my Audio Technica W11R made a VERY substantial change from the two sources. I don't think a Shure, considering it has a relatively small soundstage, would benefit much from a DAC and also a portable DAC is VERY unlikely to make much audible difference in sound.

post #42 of 75
Thread Starter 

i will keep it just in case it is needed in the future. if i were to be honest i have noticed a few problems with my on board headphone in. it tends to get quieter randomly. the fiio allows me to by pass that issue. also i do feel there is a slight difference in the bass now that i do some aba. so i feel the slight increase in sound quality warrants me keeping it. after all i want the best sound i can get.

post #43 of 75

I don‘t really know or care how the numbers stack up. I use a E7/E9 combination from a Mac Book Pro into LCD-2s, sounds great to my ears.

 

IMHO if the OP can not tell the difference between with or without, then in my simplistic way of viewing things, perhaps he should save himself some money and sell it or send it back, he would also save himself some time by not having to connect the amp/dac (E7) to his device and headphones.

 

If he can’t tell the difference, whats the point?


Edited by daveathall - 6/27/11 at 4:09am
post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveathall View Post

I don‘t really know or care how the numbers stack up. I use a E7/E9 combination from a Mac Book Pro into LCD-2s, sounds great to my ears.

 

IMHO if the OP can not tell the difference between with or without, then in my simplistic way of viewing things, perhaps he should save himself some money and sell it or send it back, he would also save himself some time by not having to connect the amp/dac (E7) to his device and headphones.

 

If he can’t tell the difference, whats the point?


Read OP's response right above your post. He has stated that there is a slight increase in sound quality which warrants him keeping it.

post #45 of 75

After i found my Nokia X5 sounds better than clip RB & cowon iaudio9, i am done with surprises & shocks.

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