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Review: Resonessence Labs Invicta - new high end DAC/amp/playback system - Page 22

post #316 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnspbesq View Post

Invicta is punishing you for listening to too much Diana Krall. biggrin.gif
 

I have many more examples to show. Guess Invicta is punishing me for listening to too much of everything biggrin.gif

post #317 of 721

Nah, it's all residual issues from the Krall. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by econparanoia View Post

I have many more examples to show. Guess Invicta is punishing me for listening to too much of everything biggrin.gif

post #318 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by econparanoia View Post

Invicta has been working almost perfectly for me except its file ordering behavior. Invicta's file ordering algorithm has been confusing to me, even after the recent software upgrade that enables "Sort by track number".

 

First of all, when a file is named as "numbering - file name", for example " 02 - Yesterday" or "02 Yesterday", the Invicta in some cases would display this film as "02 - Yesterday" or "02 Yesterday" respectively, but in other cases would display it as just "Yesterday" where the numbering part are omitted. Such behavior seems to be folder-dependent, but is consistent within any given folder and over time. (I.e. within a given folder, either the numbering parts are omitted for all the files or the numbering parts are displayed for all the files. Also, this will not change over time.)  

 

Also, for two folders within which files are named in the same way as  "numbering - file name", the actually displayed ordering of files for each folder can be different. For example, when choosing "Sort by track number", files in one of the folders are ordered as follows, which is the correct ordering: 

 

However, for the other folder, files are ordered incorrectly, as shown below:

 

 

Whether or not the hyphen "-" is included in the file names doesn't seem to change a thing in the example above. Interestingly, for the two folders in this example, when "Sort by track name" is chosen, files in both folders are displayed in the order of increasing numbering (i.e. 01 - xxx, 02 - xxx, 03 - xxx, ... , which you should have seen when "Sort by track number" is chosen). Note that in this example, the numbering part of the file names are displayed for files in both folders. However, as I mentioned earlier, for some other folders, Invicta would simply omit  displaying the numbering for their files. And where the Invicta does this, the files are displayed in the alphabetical order when "Sort by track name" is chosen.

 

I really can't understand Invicta's ordering algorithm. Are there buds? Or do I miss something? Hope some of you guys can shed some light. 

I have also noticed some peculiar behavior of the Invicta numerical ordering algorithm.  Curiously some files (albums) ordered exactly like they should but others did not.  I use ITunes to create my files and you can change certain metadata information in this program.   What I discovered is that the ordering algorithm seems to also incorporate data on the artist name -- so when I create a file made of a compilation of different songs by different artists, the track order gets mixed up.   However if there is only one artist for the entire album, the tracks play in their correct numerical sequence.   So what I did was to change the metadata in iTunes for these "compilation" albums to indicate just one artist (I inserted "various") for the entire album - in iTunes click on the entire file so you get the combined metadata page (you don't have to do this for every song), and voila all the songs play in their correct order.   If you really want to know which artist connects with each song, you would have to enter this manually in the song title field along with the song - not in the fields labeled artist or album artist.  I don't bother with this myself but some may want to have this information.  I don't know whether this would work for non-iTunes created files, but it does solve the problem for me, and it's really not that difficult to do.   Other than that, I continue to love my Invicta - just anxiously awaiting the next download to be able to do balanced headphone drive -- my adapter is still sitting in the box!

post #319 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by twsmith View Post

I have also noticed some peculiar behavior of the Invicta numerical ordering algorithm.  Curiously some files (albums) ordered exactly like they should but others did not.  I use ITunes to create my files and you can change certain metadata information in this program.   What I discovered is that the ordering algorithm seems to also incorporate data on the artist name -- so when I create a file made of a compilation of different songs by different artists, the track order gets mixed up.   However if there is only one artist for the entire album, the tracks play in their correct numerical sequence.   So what I did was to change the metadata in iTunes for these "compilation" albums to indicate just one artist (I inserted "various") for the entire album - in iTunes click on the entire file so you get the combined metadata page (you don't have to do this for every song), and voila all the songs play in their correct order.   If you really want to know which artist connects with each song, you would have to enter this manually in the song title field along with the song - not in the fields labeled artist or album artist.  I don't bother with this myself but some may want to have this information.  I don't know whether this would work for non-iTunes created files, but it does solve the problem for me, and it's really not that difficult to do.   Other than that, I continue to love my Invicta - just anxiously awaiting the next download to be able to do balanced headphone drive -- my adapter is still sitting in the box!

Twsmith, thanks a lot for the tips. I don't use iTunes. Instead, I tried using foobar2000 to edit metadata information for several WAV files. I emptied all the previous metadata information, and then entered artist names manually so that they are identical for all files in the same folder. However, odd ordering as shown in my example remained the same. I'll probably give iTunes a try. 

 

BTW, do you know any software that is able to edit metadata information for DFF files? 

post #320 of 721

I emailed Mark of the Resonessence Labs about the numerical ordering issue and just got his reply, which confirms twsmith's findings. And it looks like, as far as editing metadata information is concerned, foobar2000 was not doing the job for me.

 

Mark's reply is as follows:

 

 

Quote:
Well I wasn't expecting my guys to get back to me so quickly. However, here is a description of how it works and why perhaps you see the occasional anomaly:
Hey Mark,

Here's how the file ordering works.

1)  The audio file is opened and checked for either ID3 tags (wav, aif, dsd) or for vorbis comments (flac).

2)  If either ID3 tags or Vorbis comments are present, then the track can be sorted based on this information.  The file name is no longer used at any point in the sort, and the presentation on the screen is completely tag driven.

3)  If sort is by track number, and the track number & album tags exist for the song, then the song is first sorted by album and then by track number.

4)  If sort is by track title, and the track title tag existed, then the song is sorted by track title.

5)  If no tags existed, then the song is sorted by filename.

Note:  When sorting by track title or filename, the sort will try to sort by number if a number exists at the start of the track title / filename.  For example - "1 - Test Song", "2 - Another Song" will be sorted numerically.

Hopefully this helps!  I'm guessing that some of his music has tags, and some does not.  This would explain why the songs sometimes appear the same as their filename, and sometimes do not.  If there is a track title tag then that tag will override the filename.  he could use a metadata editor (such as iTunes, JRiver, etc) to edit the track information for consistency.
post #321 of 721
I just found that the problem could also be caused by the specific SD card I use.
 
The SD card I use is a 64BG Sandisk SDXC. It was originally in exFat format when I purchased it from Amazon. I used a software called "Diskgenius" to format the card into regular Fat 32 format so that I could use it in both the Invicta and my Colorfly C4 player (which can't read exFat format). Just now, I copied one of the "problematic" folders from the Sandisk card to a 4GB SDHC card without modifying anything about the folder. And, guess what, problem solved! When using the 4GB SDHC card, Invicta is able to display the files in the folder in correct numerical order.  
 
From my observation above, I'm thinking about two possibilities:
 
1) Formatting a SDXC card into Fat 32 (via Diskgenius) may cause trouble for Invicta to sort files;
2) There is some bug in Invicta's SDXC support.
 
I'm formatting my Sandisk SDXC back to its original exFat format. If the problem is solved afterwards, then we can obviously cross out Probability 2). Let's see how it goes.
post #322 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by econparanoia View Post

I just found that the problem could also be caused by the specific SD card I use.
 
The SD card I use is a 64BG Sandisk SDXC. It was originally in exFat format when I purchased it from Amazon. I used a software called "Diskgenius" to format the card into regular Fat 32 format so that I could use it in both the Invicta and my Colorfly C4 player (which can't read exFat format). Just now, I copied one of the "problematic" folders from the Sandisk card to a 4GB SDHC card without modifying anything about the folder. And, guess what, problem solved! When using the 4GB SDHC card, Invicta is able to display the files in the folder in correct numerical order.  
 
From my observation above, I'm thinking about two possibilities:
 
1) Formatting a SDXC card into Fat 32 (via Diskgenius) may cause trouble for Invicta to sort files;
2) There is some bug in Invicta's SDXC support.
 
I'm formatting my Sandisk SDXC back to its original exFat format. If the problem is solved afterwards, then we can obviously cross out Probability 2). Let's see how it goes.

This is an interesting thought - however I have been exclusively using 64GB Sandisk SDXC cards (originally formatted as exFAT and never changed), and still observed numerical ordering glitches on some files, but not with others.   So my feeling is that this situation is not an intrinsic bug with the Invicta's SDXC support but rather the way the algorithm is set up, as described by Mark in his note above.  As I discovered myself, editing the metadata field in a program like iTunes will solve the problem.    

post #323 of 721
Thread Starter 

New update is finally ready - 4.2.0 available HERE.

 

Adds support for balanced headphone operation (yay!) along with more DSD playback tweaks and also has the "roll up" of all the prior DSD and track number updates. 

post #324 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

I used an Audeze LCD-2.2 with the stock balanced cable, and then also the HiFiMAN HE-400 and HE-500 with a Toxic Cables Hybrid balanced cable (I only have one of these so it had to be swapped back and forth which reminded me how much more I like the mini-XLR connections Audeze uses). So far I'll say that balanced mode is an improvement - a more spacious presentation, and more "drive" for lack of a better word. The "regular" headphone section on the Invicta is already spectacular so it's not a night and day difference, which is just as I suspected. But it does seem noticeable so far. Will it make a difference with all headphones? I don't know. But with these particular models, all planar magnetic and somewhat power hungry, it did matter.

 

That's about as far as I can go right now based on my limited sampling last night. I notice these findings are similar to when I had the Violectric V181 balanced amp in for review - the differences between balanced mode and single ended mode were not massive but they did make a difference. So that confirms that I'm probably on the right track with the Invicta so far. But we'll see. 

I just installed the latest Invicta software upgrade and tried out my HD800s in balanced mode, and I must say that it works extremely well, essentially confirming project86's impressions that he noted above.   Again the most obvious change from SE was an enhanced spatial presentation and an overall impression of greater drive and dynamic range, and clearly shows an advantage to driving the HD800s in balanced mode.   Overall I consider this to be a very impressive accomplishment by the Resonessence folks.   

post #325 of 721
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twsmith View Post

I just installed the latest Invicta software upgrade and tried out my HD800s in balanced mode, and I must say that it works extremely well, essentially confirming project86's impressions that he noted above.   Again the most obvious change from SE was an enhanced spatial presentation and an overall impression of greater drive and dynamic range, and clearly shows an advantage to driving the HD800s in balanced mode.   Overall I consider this to be a very impressive accomplishment by the Resonessence folks.   

 

Nice. Where did you get the adapter from?

 

I think as more people (hopefully) start upgrading to 4.2 and picking up adapters, we''ll see more feedback like this. Some headphones just seem to thrive on balanced drive and the Invicta turns into even more of a reference grade amp in that mode. Very impressive. 

post #326 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

Nice. Where did you get the adapter from?

 

I bit the bullet and bought the 3 pin XLR to TRS adapter sold by Tam Audio.  I probably could have saved $$ by having one custom made (but maybe not).   It only took about 1-1/2 weeks to receive the adapter (from China to Massachusetts!).   It seems to be very well made and does the job perfectly.

 

A couple of interesting "operational "observations about the balanced option on the Invicta - you have to be sure both headphone outputs are powered up and at the same level, and then activate the "enabled" function for differential headphone output - they don't call it "balanced".  If you don't follow these steps, you will either hear nothing (the front panel HP lights won't be on) or you will get a monophonic output (if HP differential option isn't activated).   i'm sure that in the next revision of the users guide this will be explained in more detail.   

post #327 of 721
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twsmith View Post

I bit the bullet and bought the 3 pin XLR to TRS adapter sold by Tam Audio.  I probably could have saved $$ by having one custom made (but maybe not).   It only took about 1-1/2 weeks to receive the adapter (from China to Massachusetts!).   It seems to be very well made and does the job perfectly.

 

A couple of interesting "operational "observations about the balanced option on the Invicta - you have to be sure both headphone outputs are powered up and at the same level, and then activate the "enabled" function for differential headphone output - they don't call it "balanced".  If you don't follow these steps, you will either hear nothing (the front panel HP lights won't be on) or you will get a monophonic output (if HP differential option isn't activated).   i'm sure that in the next revision of the users guide this will be explained in more detail.   

 

All I do is power on, activate "differential" mode in the menu, and then I have to press the headphone power button. I always use the right side button, not sure why. One press will turn both sides on. I don't mess with other settings. Maybe try powering up the headphone out after you choose differential mode?

post #328 of 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

All I do is power on, activate "differential" mode in the menu, and then I have to press the headphone power button. I always use the right side button, not sure why. One press will turn both sides on. I don't mess with other settings. Maybe try powering up the headphone out after you choose differential mode?

Good suggestion -- this might be quicker than scrolling through the menu for sure.   I saved my settings anyway, so now the differential mode and HP power always comes up when I turn on the Invicta.  

post #329 of 721

Anyone planning to ask a specialist cable vendor to make a specific cable for HD800's (or Audeze's) on RL Invicta differential mode?

post #330 of 721
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twsmith View Post

Good suggestion -- this might be quicker than scrolling through the menu for sure.   I saved my settings anyway, so now the differential mode and HP power always comes up when I turn on the Invicta.  

 

Cool. I still switch back and forth so I can use custom IEMs with a regular cable, but it's not a big deal to switch back to normal mode. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWannabe View Post

Anyone planning to ask a specialist cable vendor to make a specific cable for HD800's (or Audeze's) on RL Invicta differential mode?

 

Charleston Cable Company (who  got my adapter from) mentioned they could terminate any of their cables in this way. They do HiFiMAN, Sennheiser HD650, HD800, and Audeze (plus custom requests). But I just figured it would make more sense to go with an industry standard like 4-pin XLR. That way it's easy to use an adapter for the Invicta, or a single ended adapter for other amps, if needed. 

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