Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Review: Resonessence Labs Invicta - new high end DAC/amp/playback system
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Review: Resonessence Labs Invicta - new high end DAC/amp/playback system - Page 3

post #31 of 719

I'm not interested in an argument either.

 

I am guessing that I am in a fairly unique position of having a dual wm8741 dac, 8 x pcm170uk DAC and single ESS9018 DAC and I just wonder if the single ESS9018 is really disadvantaged. All my DACs have very similar configuration i.e. 3 transformer multiple PSU,s and much the same output stages.

 

The ESS9018 DAC I own is great but I personally want to know how far the performance can be pushed. As the configuration of the DACS I own is so similar I would guess I am probably more familiar with the sound of the DAC chips than most.

 

I can see that the only way for me to know for sure if the ESS is handicapped by not running in dual mono mode is to buy 2 twisted pear sabre 3 boards and ancillaries and compare the sound of stereo and dual mono configuration.

 

The paper referenced is from 2007 and before the ESS9018 was released (I dont know if its still relevant).

 

I am not suggesting for a moment I am any sort of expert in DAC design. These are just my queries.

 

No offence is meant to anyone.

 

Regards

 

Macrog

post #32 of 719

 

If still not convinced, this is what happened with NuForce:
 
Their single-Sabre designs (uDAC, HDP) applied "double jitter-reduction mechanism at data level and at oversampling filter stage".
 
And the recent dual-mono Sabre DAC-9: "Extensive testing and listening tell us that up-sampling and sample-rate conversion do more harm than good [..]. Consequently, no form of sample-rate conversion is ever employed."  Unsurprisingly, words "jitter" and "dejittering" are never mentioned..
 
I am not sure if SNR benefits of dual mono are sufficient to survive a NOS sigma-delta design without dejittering biggrin.gif but surely I will give it a try..

 

post #33 of 719



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macrog View Post

I'm not interested in an argument either.

 

I am guessing that I am in a fairly unique position of having a dual wm8741 dac, 8 x pcm170uk DAC and single ESS9018 DAC and I just wonder if the single ESS9018 is really disadvantaged. All my DACs have very similar configuration i.e. 3 transformer multiple PSU,s and much the same output stages.

 

The ESS9018 DAC I own is great but I personally want to know how far the performance can be pushed. As the configuration of the DACS I own is so similar I would guess I am probably more familiar with the sound of the DAC chips than most.

 

I can see that the only way for me to know for sure if the ESS is handicapped by not running in dual mono mode is to buy 2 twisted pear sabre 3 boards and ancillaries and compare the sound of stereo and dual mono configuration.

 

The paper referenced is from 2007 and before the ESS9018 was released (I dont know if its still relevant).

 

I am not suggesting for a moment I am any sort of expert in DAC design. These are just my queries.

 

No offence is meant to anyone.

 

Regards

 

Macrog

 

Goodluck with ordering the boards in approx 2 days Macrog,  the second it is available-its gone.  I am un successful in trying to get them from TPA.  Does anyone know a short cut in obtaining these modules from TPA?

 

 


Edited by ecohifi - 8/18/11 at 11:03pm
post #34 of 719

My Twisted Pear stuff is going to have to wait a wee while. I have a new baby and no hope of finding the time to build a kit set at present.

 

Thank goodness she likes music :)

 

Regards

 

Macrog

post #35 of 719
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrog View Post

My Twisted Pear stuff is going to have to wait a wee while. I have a new baby and no hope of finding the time to build a kit set at present.

 

Thank goodness she likes music :)

 

Regards

 

Macrog

 

Congratulations! New babies are awesome. 
 

 

post #36 of 719

  Great review!!!  I have been shopping for a new dac and I think I will take a chance with this one based on your review.Based on your description I think it will suit my system very well( the latest B&W 800 Diamonds,Bryston 7b sst2 amps, Bryston bp26 preamp).

 I let you know within a few weeks of it's arrival how it works out in my system.I understand there is approx a 10 wait time so it will be awhile.

 cheers

post #37 of 719

I wish they just made a straight up DAC version. No amp, no two head outs and no SD card reader blink.gif

 

A card reader honestly, why? Heck, if they want to be fancy give it a separate power supply like a Bel Canto 3.5


Edited by MrQ - 8/21/11 at 1:09pm
post #38 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQ View Post

I wish they just made a straight up DAC version. No amp, no two head outs and no SD card reader blink.gif

 

A card reader honestly, why? Heck, if they want to be fancy give it a separate power supply like a Bel Canto 3.5



   I agree. I think they would have a much greater market if they had an additional model with the features/lack of features you suggest.

post #39 of 719

Fantastic review Project 86, I take my hat off for ya!

 

I guess that with all the software development this product has it is way above the the norm and outside the average market to people like me who are unable to afford it.  It is great to see Project 86 taking the initiative in getting a beta sample to review and letting us know what he has encountered.

 

I like to say that this newly developed company needs to developed a product which is simular in sound quality and pay less attention in built quality especially with the development and production of the chassis.  In this day and age something else comes out and renders such a box  uncompetitive. 

 

If you guys have read the 6moon issue I think that Mark Mallison needs to provide proof of what he as stated for the AD797 op amp used in this product.  I find what he has stated is misleading!

 

post #40 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQ View Post

I wish they just made a straight up DAC version. No amp, no two head outs and no SD card reader blink.gif

 

A card reader honestly, why? Heck, if they want to be fancy give it a separate power supply like a Bel Canto 3.5


I, for one, would love to own a hi-end DAC with a card reader. Getting rid of the computer in the audio chain is my primary aim now.
post #41 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Knight View Post



I, for one, would love to own a hi-end DAC with a card reader. Getting rid of the computer in the audio chain is my primary aim now.


The more flexabilty the better but not at $4K.  Total cost in producing this product doesn't cost $4k.  Like I said the consistant change in DAC landscape is gaining pace.  The TPA solution will cost $800 for stereo, The mini max plus $1100 AU.  Big deal if it doesn't have a card reader.  Some blue ray players like the oppo and the Sony 380/480/580 can steam files from there USB and output thu the S/PDIF!!!!
 

 

post #42 of 719

Excellent review project86, I enjoyed reading it. I think I'll have to stay with the Yulong for now though, maybe for a while...but at least I'll know of a very good upgrade from it biggrin.gif

post #43 of 719
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck525 View Post

  Great review!!!  I have been shopping for a new dac and I think I will take a chance with this one based on your review.Based on your description I think it will suit my system very well( the latest B&W 800 Diamonds,Bryston 7b sst2 amps, Bryston bp26 preamp).

 I let you know within a few weeks of it's arrival how it works out in my system.I understand there is approx a 10 wait time so it will be awhile.

 cheers



Excellent setup you have there! I suspect the Invicta will fit right in among those components. I look forward to hearing your impressions. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by ecohifi View Post

Fantastic review Project 86, I take my hat off for ya!

 

I guess that with all the software development this product has it is way above the the norm and outside the average market to people like me who are unable to afford it.  It is great to see Project 86 taking the initiative in getting a beta sample to review and letting us know what he has encountered.

 

I like to say that this newly developed company needs to developed a product which is simular in sound quality and pay less attention in built quality especially with the development and production of the chassis.  In this day and age something else comes out and renders such a box  uncompetitive. 

 

If you guys have read the 6moon issue I think that Mark Mallison needs to provide proof of what he as stated for the AD797 op amp used in this product.  I find what he has stated is misleading!

 



Thanks for the kind words. Once again, my thanks goes out to Mark and the folks at Resonessence. Even getting past the potential problems of loaning out an expensive item with no real insurance... they also had no idea what I would say about their product. How would it look if I posted that their not-yet-released state of the art DAC was not very impressive? That sort of bad publicity could be really harmful for them this early in the game. They certainly had more to lose than they had to gain.

 

Lucky for them their product really is as good as they claim. 

 

Regarding the AD797 - I don't know enough about the subject on a technical level, so I am just taking Mark's word for it. If he is friends with the person behind that op-amp, and that's what he is being told, then I'll take him at his word. What does he gain by making up an offhand story like that?  It would be interesting to hear more about the topic when his work on the Invicta settles down. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by ecohifi View Post




The more flexabilty the better but not at $4K.  Total cost in producing this product doesn't cost $4k.  Like I said the consistant change in DAC landscape is gaining pace.  The TPA solution will cost $800 for stereo, The mini max plus $1100 AU.  Big deal if it doesn't have a card reader.  Some blue ray players like the oppo and the Sony 380/480/580 can steam files from there USB and output thu the S/PDIF!!!!
 

 

To be fair, total cost on any high end audio product is going to be significantly lower than the retail price. And if you have ever seen what the usual margin is at a high end dealer.... 

 

Value on a product like this is really in the ear of the beholder. As I said in the review, I absolutely loved it, and found it to be the best DAC I've ever heard, yet I am not purchasing it. It would be a different story if my life allowed for a full sized speaker setup; I'd try my best to sell off gear until I came up with enough to purchase Invicta.

 

This is not anything Mark has told me, but one possibility: he wants to make a big splash in the high end market, build up some renown as a world class audio firm, and then start releasing lower priced models using a "trickle down" approach. That's what I would do if I were him. At that point we would likely see a stand alone DAC with no headphone amp or SD player functionality. 
 

 

post #44 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

<snip>

This is not anything Mark has told me, but one possibility: he wants to make a big splash in the high end market, build up some renown as a world class audio firm, and then start releasing lower priced models using a "trickle down" approach. That's what I would do if I were him. At that point we would likely see a stand alone DAC with no headphone amp or SD player functionality. 
 

 

 

X2  I would buy it. But as it stands one just gets this feeling you're paying over the odds for the shiny extras.
 

 

post #45 of 719

If I was Bill Gates and 4k fell out of my pocket, it wouldnt phase me, and I would  fork out 4k judging on Project 86's impression.  I think Project 86 has sold this product alone for Mark.  Yes you've all guest it I'm not BG so I dont have 4k budget for a DAC.  When I read Project 86's write up on the Anedio D1 I was sold.  I went to save for it and when I was able to get it, it was sold out now waiting on higher res USB input. 

The invicta is a wonderful product and I would love to have it in my rig.  Im greatful that Mark has given Project 86 the opportunity to provide us all how impressive this product is.  But when it comes to marketing and research from a consumers point of view I am going to put everything you have stated under the microscope, especially at 4k.  As Mark has stated, the AD 797 is not listed as a Jfet device in the data sheets.  It maybe it can be rolled into a circuit that is optimised for Jfet and that is possible as I do it all the time providing it remains stable.  I just hoped that he is able to provide data and circuits to show that it is a Jfet.  Because where I am standing the AD 797 is not a jfet device.  Its noise performance is not of a typical Jfet as they are much higher.  Its spec sheets doesnt say it is and even Mark says its not on the AD797 spec sheets so why quote it as a jfet and listed in the invicta's specs that it use this device as a jfet?  If you are going to make these claims then you must provide evidence, reference or proof.  I am advising against assuming and taking his word for it because in this case I never assume or take someones word because I have been caught out in situation like this.

With a limited budget, Im going to wait for the minimax plus to hit the Aussie shores as this is the best chance for me to obtain a sabre 9018 implementation. I can build it if I can but unfortunately I dont have the means to solder devices this small.  The mini max is plain and basic and has the ability to roll in opamps.  I prefer something with a digital comtrolled volume where the invicta/anedio is perfect for, but ya cant win them all, especially on a budget like mine!

 


Edited by ecohifi - 8/23/11 at 5:22am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Review: Resonessence Labs Invicta - new high end DAC/amp/playback system