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Quick Impression: Sony MDR-7550 - Page 20

post #286 of 532

Spike is at 6k but doesn't drop off till after 7k. Yet another example of inevitable resonance occurring from the design. 

 

700

 

 

7550s don't get away with not having the spike. But It has more damping than the EX600 and EX1000, which makes regions past 4k less emphasized overall. The EX1000s and even EX600s are actually more flat than the EX800ST, I think the 800ST were made with ear fatigue in mind for long studio and stage use, ala Westone and Shure. 


Edited by Inks - 8/2/12 at 4:41pm
post #287 of 532

That's the impedance versus phase right?  Where did you find that if I may ask?

post #288 of 532

  From this discontinued blog I believe, I had it saved on my Computer, so I'm not sure. 

post #289 of 532

Very interesting link Inks, thx a lot.

post #290 of 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post

@Haonan I have never complained that the 7550 was to bright or sibilant, I actually have always wanted a bit more treble which the Auveo tips have provided. So I think I am hearing these alot like you do.

Don't get me wrong dweaver, my earlier statements regarding that I wasn't hearing any sortt harsh brightness or sibilance in the EX800ST's/MDR-7550, was actually in agreement with what you have posted earlier on this thread in response to some of your earlier posts on this thread. Just letting some of the rest of the new owners like Ambroos know and giving them some assurance that's all. redface.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Haonan all I said is they have a spike in the highs, you know around 6~7kHz like the entire Sony EX series!!  I have heard the EX300, EX500, EX600, EX700 and EX1000, not the EX800ST.

I'm more sensitive to the EX600 spike than the CK10 spike, which is higher up in frequency around 10kHz and quite inviting, fresh and clear, the new JVC FXD80 has that spike too, plus the Sony MDR-SA5000 and ZX1000 / MDR-7520.

Hello Kiteki, I don't think it's very fair to comment on the peakiness/spikes in the treble of the EX800ST/MDR-7550 monitors at all, if you have no listening experience with these at all. It is probably due to reasons that I have mentioned earlier, such statements may sometimes lead to misleading conclusions or impressions, and people who come across posts like yours who are interested to get this pair of reference monitor IEMs by Sony, might be put off if they are thinking that these IEMs come with any sort of harshness or spikes in their treble character.

According to my ears and current listening impressions and having the EX800ST's myself for the past 1 year and 1 month, I'm actually quite confident to say that in terms of the FR response the EX600 and EX1000 both share more similarities and are actually more peaky in their upper-mids/highs compared to EX800/MDR-7550, which are relatively much flatter/neutral in response. In fact if I were to nit-pick, my EX800ST doesn't quite exactly have the same amount of sparkle/shimmer details in its treble, when compared to the other 2 EX monitor models. This was also brought up and mentioned by Sonove before on his blog, when he was reviewing the MDR-EX1000's awhile back, with a FR graph comparison sheet done against the MDR-EX1000's, and he has also left notes mentioning that after the 2 kHz, around 5.5 kHz and after 9 kHz the MDR-EX1000 is actually much higher in terms of SPL sensitivity than the EX800ST's/MDR-7550 by around 3-4dB. I will say after adding the RK-EX1000LP (that 1.2m 7N-OFC quality original detachable cable by Sony, that were only included with the default japanese packages of the MDR-EX1000 not the american model) equation to my pair of EX800ST's since I was already listening with this optional cable with me since February, then it only brings up the level of treble energy to be around the same as the EX1000 by up to around 95%, which is pretty close to the SQ of the MDR-EX1000's except for some relatively minor differences when it comes downs to midrange presentation and soundstage qualities. (EX1000 is still slightly more airy/3D-like holographic with bigger sense of space to me)

Just sharing what I know so far, that's all. Cheers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

7550s don't get away with not having the spike. But It has more damping than the EX600 and EX1000, which makes regions past 4k less emphasized overall. The EX1000s and even EX600s are actually more flat than the EX800ST, I think the 800ST were made with ear fatigue in mind for long studio and stage use, ala Westone and Shure. 

Another one who's making speculations/assumptions without actually listening the MDR-7550's at all. Inks, I have been reading some of your very informative posts in some the recent discussion threads around here, and if there's one thing your posts have made me realised, it's that I think you are probably FAR MORE obsessed with things such as RMAA tests and FR graphs, than almost anyone else I personally know on Head-fi. The MDR-EX600 and EX1000 are much flatter than EX800ST? EX800ST made for ear fatigue? I seriously just lol-ed. rolleyes.gif

Not quite interested in arguing with someone, who seems to have a very strong faith/beliefs in RMAA tests or FR graphs, than the actual IEMs themselves. I listen to gears with only my own pair of ears and by relying on brain/auditory senses to judge what's peaky or fatiguing to me, and not relying on blind tests like RMAA or FR graphs to simply judge their sound, thank you very much.
Edited by Haonan - 8/3/12 at 11:53pm
post #291 of 532

  I have heard all 3 lol, they sound just as they graph with a proper compensation, meaning knowing how to transfer raw results into how an ear perceives it. Those are raw graphs not representative once you factor in ear resonance.Granted the 7550s session was kind of brief, as it was a unit i returned after 2 days but enough to know how they fared as I had the EX1000. Sadly I couldn't go in-depth to write or loan them and it seems Sony USA doesn't care for the Monitor series anymore as they are not sold locally anymore. Again, that's not a graph with ear resonance in mind, this will be a more representative one for the EX1000 (notice the gray graph is more like Sonove, that's because it's raw, not taking the average human ear changes in mind)

700

You mock my approach, yet fail to provide anything to consider. 7550s treble is laid back and it has that spike though much smaller,  pretty definitive. Even friends who I know here tell me the same. Using your ear for your own personal evaluation is fine, but the approach that can be shared more accurately for universal evaluation are data.The information isn't just some random, irrelevant information, your ears wont transform them completely, specially since this is a low-acoustic impedance IEM. Did I say the spike was offensive? No its not an offensive spike, but it's there, pay more attention to that region.The 7550s have that 5-6k spike, it's inevitable due to the driver placement, but it's notably much lower than the 1000/600, but the whole midhigh/treble region suffers a bit from being conservative .EX1000s in comparison are flat in the midhighs and treble, except it's for it's bigger 5.5k spike which is kind of offensive, but Sony took the trade-off here with the spike to provide a more flat response, it's no wonder it's the flagship. 

Hmm the EX1000 cable has no significant change in the EX1000 compared to the EX600 cable. Yet you claim significant difference? I'll be careful about making claims that may very likely be due to placebo. 


Edited by Inks - 8/5/12 at 10:49pm
post #292 of 532
Originally Posted by Haonan View Post
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Haonan all I said is they have a spike in the highs, you know around 6~7kHz like the entire Sony EX series!!  I have heard the EX300, EX500, EX600, EX700 and EX1000, not the EX800ST.

I'm more sensitive to the EX600 spike than the CK10 spike, which is higher up in frequency around 10kHz and quite inviting, fresh and clear, the new JVC FXD80 has that spike too, plus the Sony MDR-SA5000 and ZX1000 / MDR-7520.


Hello Kiteki, I don't think it's very fair to comment on the peakiness/spikes in the treble of the EX800ST/MDR-7550 monitors at all, if you have no listening experience with these at all. It is probably due to reasons that I have mentioned earlier, such statements may sometimes lead to misleading conclusions or impressions, and people who come across posts like yours who are interested to get this pair of reference monitor IEMs by Sony, might be put off if they are thinking that these IEMs come with any sort of harshness or spikes in their treble character.

According to my ears and current listening impressions and having the EX800ST's myself for the past 1 year and 1 month, I'm actually quite confident to say that in terms of the FR response the EX600 and EX1000 both share more similarities and are actually more peaky in their upper-mids/highs compared to EX800/MDR-7550, which are relatively much flatter/neutral in response. In fact if I were to nit-pick, my EX800ST doesn't quite exactly have the same amount of sparkle/shimmer details in its treble, when compared to the other 2 EX monitor models. This was also brought up and mentioned by Sonove before on his blog, when he was reviewing the MDR-EX1000's awhile back, with a FR graph comparison sheet done against the MDR-EX1000's, and he has also left notes mentioning that after the 2 kHz, around 5.5 kHz and after 9 kHz the MDR-EX1000 is actually much higher in terms of SPL sensitivity than the EX800ST's/MDR-7550 by around 3-4dB. I will say after adding the RK-EX1000LP (that 1.2m 7N-OFC quality original detachable cable by Sony, that were only included with the default japanese packages of the MDR-EX1000 not the american model) equation to my pair of EX800ST's since I was already listening with this optional cable with me since February, then it only brings up the level of treble energy to be around the same as the EX1000 by up to around 95%, which is pretty close to the SQ of the MDR-EX1000's except for some relatively minor differences when it comes downs to midrange presentation and soundstage qualities. (EX1000 is still slightly more airy/3D-like holographic with bigger sense of space to me)

Just sharing what I know so far, that's all. Cheers.

700

 

[/]

 

 

Thanks for the correction and well done on 100 posts after 7 years!

post #293 of 532
Originally Posted by Haonan View Post

[/]

Another one who's making speculations/assumptions without actually listening the MDR-7550's at all. Inks, I have been reading some of your very informative posts in some the recent discussion threads around here, and if there's one thing your posts have made me realised, it's that I think you are probably FAR MORE obsessed with things such as RMAA tests and FR graphs, than almost anyone else I personally know on Head-fi. The MDR-EX600 and EX1000 are much flatter than EX800ST? EX800ST made for ear fatigue? I seriously just lol-ed. rolleyes.gif

Not quite interested in arguing with someone, who seems to have a very strong faith/beliefs in RMAA tests or FR graphs, than the actual IEMs themselves. I listen to gears with only my own pair of ears and by relying on brain/auditory senses to judge what's peaky or fatiguing to me, and not relying on blind tests like RMAA or FR graphs to simply judge their sound, thank you very much.

 

Some of my thoughts ->

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/614418/skullcandy-mix-master-mike-versus-audeze-lcd-3#post_8458152

http://www.head-fi.org/t/619898/work-in-progress-my-evaluation-methods-glossary-of-terms-i-use-fr-graphs-for-newbs/15#post_8565193

http://www.head-fi.org/t/617259/vsonic-gr07-mk2-stunning-new-cable-bio-cellulose-technology-iem/255#post_8583075

post #294 of 532

Thanks for the clarification Haonan. I have to say I agree with you in regards to the MDR-7550 then. I haven't noticed any form of treble spike with these either. Whereas I noticed spikes in every JVC I have tried that has bothered me enough to sell them outside of their lack of midrange forwardness I also want and their slightly over cooked bass I don't want.

 

But I also have to concede I have not heard the EX600 or EX1000 but from I have read I just don't think the 7550 is similar to them. I say this because while I have learned the appreciate brighter headphones I have always found the 7550 to be lacking treble in comparison to the phones I like the most so don't think anyone would find their treble to be sibilant.

 

Anyway I am fine with others impressions as we don't all hear things the same way. But for my ears the 7550 with stock tips has solid bass, nice slightly warm mids, and strain free treble. The best way to describe the IEM for me is one word, "effortless".

post #295 of 532

So at high volume the EX800ST isn't offensive with electronic music or violins?

post #296 of 532
Sorry I didn't realize the discussion was around high volume levels. Personally I rarely go over 1/2 volume on my iPhone and 3/4 is max unless I am listening something hard to drive. So I can't comment at higher volumes as I don't like hurting my ears. But at lower volumes I really like the 7550.
post #297 of 532

I don't think higher volume levels are a good idea with any of these, the spikes reveal themselves and usually a higher isolating IEM will be more proper. 7550s cope with it best of the 3 at higher volume levels though because it has the smallest, least offensive 5-6k of the three, it's actually not bothersome at all unless at much higher levels. Treble and midhighs are lacking a bit on the 7550s though, it's sound reminded me of the SE535. 


Edited by Inks - 8/5/12 at 2:36pm
post #298 of 532

Yeah, I think the EX600 is fine at lower volumes, so some users may use these at low volumes all the time and not notice the spikiness.

 

I once saw a girl using her iPhone and earbuds at max volume, she wanted to show me a song and it was too loud for me.  On the other hand some people on head-fi seem to use ridiculously low volume.


Edited by kiteki - 8/5/12 at 11:11pm
post #299 of 532

I've been so endlessly intrigued by the 7550 that I've finally decided to just order a pair to compare to the EX1000. 

 

Going by both Tyll's graph and Sonove's, it should be possible to equalise an EX1000 to sound quite similar to the 7550 / EX800 by reducing some of the frequencies above 2k. I really wonder if the actual in-ear experience of the EX800 will sound like such an equalisation. I tried an EQ of -1db at 2k, -3db at 4k, -5db at 8k, -3db at 16k. So far it sounds like a smoother EX1000 with a slightly more closed in soundstage because the lingering 'ambient' notes in the high frequencies are diminished.

 

Was anyone ever able to confirm whether the 7550 (Multi layer polymer) actually uses a different driver from the EX1000 (liquid crystal polymer)? While the frequency response graphs are pretty darn similar (the use of a filter on the 7550 seemingly being responsible for most of the changes) Tyll's THD graph for the EX1000 is noticeably better than the one for the 7550, especially as the EX1000 doesn't have much of a rise in distortion at 100db. 

 

Then again, Sony lists a 500mW power handling figure for the 7550 vs 200mW for the EX1000...

post #300 of 532

Right. Amidst all these graphs and frequency response discussion I'd like to offer my opinion of them as a complete audio-noob.

 

The first thing I have to say: these have completely reshaped my music library. There is a truckload of music I just completely stopped listening to because it sounds horribly bad. And that includes most recent/popular music. Songs that were nice and punchy before now sound incredibly dull and boring. Or well, just constantly much too loud. It's not all bad though, there is good electronic music, just not a lot. Röyksopp and Trentemøller are pretty amazing with these too.

 

However, real proper music (especially music with good orchestration, like Björk's older stuff, Ella Fitzgerald's good records, just classical pieces) and softer stuff (Norah Jones or Feist for example) sounds absolutely amazing. I think I've managed to hear what you mean when you talk about a 'textured' sound, it's all very detailed and you can almost hear every single sound wave. Another thing that surprised me is how easy it is to distinguish different voices or multiple violins. Instead of everything becoming 'the orchestra' you can still hear every single instrument. It's an amazing feeling.

 

Another thing I really got to like is the balance of all frequency ranges, or at least compared to my EX300's. When I A/B them I always find that the 7550 sounds a bit too light, like Sony forgot to add in the bass. However, after a few minutes of listening I notice how perfectly balanced the bass is. It is actually really there but it doesn't overpower all the other sound anymore, something it did on the EX300's. I even turned off all equalizer options on my NWZ-X1050 because it simply sounds nicer. I think it might be what's causing some music to sound crappy. Bass-heavy music might have sounded 'nice' on the EX300's because the bass provided some dynamic by overpowering everything else. Now that everything is on level all that music just sounds extremely flat.

 

Then there's the wearing comfort. I always have issues with earbuds falling out of my ears. Classic ones don't even stay in for two seconds, the EX300's usually fell out with some light running or walking for ten minutes, but these are brilliant. I almost don't feel they're there and they just stay in and have a good fit at all times. The way the cable is supposed to go over your back is a bit weird and takes some getting used to though.

 

I had one of my colleagues at work listen to these. He had listened to my EX300's before on his iPhone with some of his music and he really liked the EX300's. Now I had him listen to some Buena Vista Social Club on my X1050 through the 7550's and he was amazed. It's absolutely not his kind of music but he loved it. He really like how detailed everything was, and how easy it was to listen to. Then he tried the 7550's with his iPhone and listened to some of the DJ sets he has on there (his kind of music). He thought they sounded pretty dull and boring and he'd never buy him.

 

They might not be the most suitable earbuds for some of the music I like to listen to from time to time, just the things you hear on the radio, but I am very, very glad I got them. They really made me appreciate good recording/sound quality so much more than I could have ever imagined. I finally sort-of understand one of my teachers rambling on about the loudness war and I get why most modern popular music really just is not very good music. The last downside I have to mention is that some people tend to stare at you when you wear them in public. I've stopped wearing them while waiting for the train, I just wait 'till I am on the train now to avoid the looks :P

 

Conclusion: I love them.

 

Best thing I've heard through them so far: Björk's Vespertine Live DVD - the 2-channel AC3 track sounds amazing, far better than the Vespertine Live CD!

Worst thing I've heard through them so far: Lana Del Rey - Summertime Sadness (on the album Born To Die). I quite liked this one on my EX300's, but with these it sounds empty on low volumes and distorted on higher volumes, bleh.

 

Feel free to give your opinion on things I wrote, and please link me music you really enjoy through these IEM's, I like to discover a lot of new stuff!

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