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The Apex High Fi Audio Arete is now available! - Page 5

post #61 of 84

 

Quote:

I have owned all the "DIY" efforts at one time or another (I had three Betas at once). The Arete is better....you pay for better! Don't complain if the hobby is proving expensive...find a cheaper pastime. Not every head-fier is poor. We are all between either public transportation or driving a Ferrari. Claiming that either Todd Green or Pete Millett is "milking" the headfi public? You clearly have no concept of bringing a quality product to fruition. The steps of design and implementation toward an end product. "DIY" if you can do better... If you could? Then you would then have to listen to someone like yourself complaining!

 

Pre-Amps (of which headphone amps are kin) are MUCH harder to configure from the noise (and the residual aspects) than two channel speaker amps. Maybe if you don't understand the mechanics (and intricacies) of circuit design...study it and develop an actual appreciation. Then you could offer something constructive in a conversation of cost vs. performance ratios.....


 

Well no. 1 I have nothing against TTVJ or anyone making the amps. No. 2 noone is asking any manufacturer to sell at cost - the DIY example was used just to show what can be achieved at different price points since we know how the CK2III, M3, PPA and B22 perform at their respective pricepoints. I understand that a manufacturer has to earn a profit and he also has to deal with the costs of servicing a customer etc etc. This was a general statement that manufacturers are milking the headfi community by marking up their product way way above cost and I never said that Todd and Pete are - I wonder why you are taking it to personaly - either you work for them or are so lonely that your only true company and love is the beloved Apex Peak/ Volcano and Arete. Yes, there is a development cost which is known as a fixed cost (if u dont understand what that means go back to school kid or read on...) and for every amp you sell you put the profit towards the fixed cost till you nulify it. After that whatever you earn is yours. If you spent $2000 designing the amp and you are earning $500 for every amp one sells, you recover the fixed cost by selling 4 amps. After that whatever you sell is yours. Infact if a manufacturer is selling multiple products then he doesnt really have to incur that much of an additional fixed cost to service his clients as he uses the same website and system that is already implemented. Hope thats constructive enough...

 

Yes, I am aware that preamps are lot harder to design because you are working with a very weak signal and hence you can easily affect the signal which is true. However please understand that they (when I say they I mean almost all manufacturers) are not reinventing the wheel. The amp above is a standard design with some tweaks in it (looks like a 3 channel descrete design with active ground though I could be wrong - similar to the Concerto, M3 and B22 3 channel). It didnt reinvent the wheel amd hence should not cost a ton of research costs.

 

Regarding me being able to afford the hobby and the other comments - thats a personal question so maybe I should answer it personally too - to answer it I actually like people like you who buy their toys brand new, use it for a while and then sell it off on headfi at a loss. We as docs also call it OCD (specially when someone owns an iem with 2-3 pairs of custom cables). What happens is that one ends up spending time analysing music more often than truly enjoying what the disc has to offer. Its more of an obsession rather than a hobby. Just my 2 cents...actually I should apologize...our economy needs customers like you...helps keep the GDP rolling...when are you going to sell the Arete just like the customised DNA? Grow up kid...I think you may have enough equipment out there to actually buy a used Ferrari...

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sberamji View Post

 

Well no. 1 I have nothing against TTVJ or anyone making the amps. No. 2 noone is asking any manufacturer to sell at cost - the DIY example was used just to show what can be achieved at different price points since we know how the CK2III, M3, PPA and B22 perform at their respective pricepoints. I understand that a manufacturer has to earn a profit and he also has to deal with the costs of servicing a customer etc etc. This was a general statement that manufacturers are milking the headfi community by marking up their product way way above cost and I never said that Todd and Pete are - I wonder why you are taking it to personaly - either you work for them or are so lonely that your only true company and love is the beloved Apex Peak/ Volcano and Arete. Yes, there is a development cost which is known as a fixed cost (if u dont understand what that means go back to school kid or read on...) and for every amp you sell you put the profit towards the fixed cost till you nulify it. After that whatever you earn is yours. If you spent $2000 designing the amp and you are earning $500 for every amp one sells, you recover the fixed cost by selling 4 amps. After that whatever you sell is yours. Infact if a manufacturer is selling multiple products then he doesnt really have to incur that much of an additional fixed cost to service his clients as he uses the same website and system that is already implemented. Hope thats constructive enough...

 

Yes, I am aware that preamps are lot harder to design because you are working with a very weak signal and hence you can easily affect the signal which is true. However please understand that they (when I say they I mean almost all manufacturers) are not reinventing the wheel. The amp above is a standard design with some tweaks in it (looks like a 3 channel descrete design with active ground though I could be wrong - similar to the Concerto, M3 and B22 3 channel). It didnt reinvent the wheel amd hence should not cost a ton of research costs.

 

Regarding me being able to afford the hobby and the other comments - thats a personal question so maybe I should answer it personally too - to answer it I actually like people like you who buy their toys brand new, use it for a while and then sell it off on headfi at a loss. We as docs also call it OCD (specially when someone owns an iem with 2-3 pairs of custom cables). What happens is that one ends up spending time analysing music more often than truly enjoying what the disc has to offer. Its more of an obsession rather than a hobby. Just my 2 cents...actually I should apologize...our economy needs customers like you...helps keep the GDP rolling...when are you going to sell the Arete just like the customised DNA? Grow up kid...I think you may have enough equipment out there to actually buy a used Ferrari...

 

 

 

 

 

 


"The World according to Garp!"

 

post #63 of 84

Yup Sergeant...u couldnt have called it better...enjoy ur time with nurse apex n ur baby garp the Arete...btw - lets call it peace or we could go on forever throwing books n amps at each other...how does the Arete sound compared to the concerto?

post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sberamji View Post

Yup Sergeant...u couldnt have called it better...enjoy ur time with nurse apex n ur baby garp the Arete...btw - lets call it peace or we could go on forever throwing books n amps at each other...how does the Arete sound compared to the concerto?


Not actually the same league, nothing against a nice quiet op-amp design. The Concerto is the bomb (low gain) with the Harvey's! Very nice (Concerto) at it's price for a few phones, when it was available. Is/was a replacement developed?

 

post #65 of 84

 

Quote:

Not actually the same league, nothing against a nice quiet op-amp design. The Concerto is the bomb (low gain) with the Harvey's! Very nice (Concerto) at it's price for a few phones, when it was available. Is/was a replacement developed?

 

I did exchange a few emails with Jan and he is building a sequel to the concerto. He didnt say much about it though. I did own the Concerto myself for about a year but moved to a M3 a few weeks back and havent looked back since. I must say that Jan is a pleasure to deal with - I had a problem with the Concerto and he replied to every email himself till we solved the issue.

 

What does the Arete sound like? Todd said its smooth so was wondering what it can do. Does it have enough juice or does it get congested when you drive the headphones hard?

post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sberamji View Post

 

 

I did exchange a few emails with Jan and he is building a sequel to the concerto. He didnt say much about it though. I did own the Concerto myself for about a year but moved to a M3 a few weeks back and havent looked back since. I must say that Jan is a pleasure to deal with - I had a problem with the Concerto and he replied to every email himself till we solved the issue.

 

What does the Arete sound like? Todd said its smooth so was wondering what it can do. Does it have enough juice or does it get congested when you drive the headphones hard?

  I had a couple M3's. Enough can't be said for good customer service and Jan is a good and kind gentleman. I have dealt with Todd for years...he's in the same club!

 

  That was one of the issues in finding an amp for the PS1K....something to push it beyond the established boundaries of other amps. The acoustic ceiling was apparent when current wasn't stable, and in short supply from many of the amps I tried with them. The bottom range would bloat and the upper registers would get hard and brittle (typical clipping). Now they behave like actual ear-speakers and and ride the SPL ladder to the top (the natural dynamic of Classical Music as example). Or for "Shock" and Rollblink.gif....

 

 The Sennheiser 600 likes the Arete also (very well!). Most transistors amps shy away from doing a GREAT job with them (600). So the amp likes the Voltage and Current phones I have. I don't have any Ortho's any longer. I loved the Audez'e but the weight and clamp was just to much for my mellon (it's a big Mellon). The P/V was the best I heard for it! The Arete should be fine for that phone...the HE-6? Robert (Skylab) will answer those questions....when he is done with amp burn and has time to form an opinion....
 

 

post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by achristilaw View Post

 

 The Sennheiser 600 likes the Arete also (very well!). Most transistors amps shy away from doing a GREAT job with them (600). So the amp likes the Voltage and Current phones I have. I don't have any Ortho's any longer. I loved the Audez'e but the weight and clamp was just to much for my mellon (it's a big Mellon). The P/V was the best I heard for it! The Arete should be fine for that phone...the HE-6? Robert (Skylab) will answer those questions....when he is done with amp burn and has time to form an opinion....


Are you sure the Arete will be powerful enough for the LCD-2 ? It seems to be a little less powerful than the Peak. Maybe that goes a little too far to make the LCD-2 sing ? Although to be fair I haven't always seen a correlation between power rating and actual sense of power (most recent example in my experience : a Cowon S9 - 29 mW - vs a HM 601 - 30 mW).

 

post #68 of 84

Very nice! plan to release balance edition?

post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post




Are you sure the Arete will be powerful enough for the LCD-2 ? It seems to be a little less powerful than the Peak. Maybe that goes a little too far to make the LCD-2 sing ? Although to be fair I haven't always seen a correlation between power rating and actual sense of power (most recent example in my experience : a Cowon S9 - 29 mW - vs a HM 601 - 30 mW).

 


 Amp stability is the key (much of which stems efficiency from the important PS). The "peak" power of some designs isn't a true indicator of actual performance under load. Would 2 watts sound twice as loud as 1 watt? No.... 1 watt would need to be 10 watts (to double the output)....10 watts would turn into 100 etc. (factors of 10) as needed for no clipping of signal at output (under load). Much is load interaction, and then how we perceive loudness for starters.  

 

 How the Headphone will amp see individual loads, and remain unaffected, is what your after! The resistive (Ortho) or the resistive/reactive (conventional) are not the same needs....but can be handled by a single, stable platform. The Audez'e shouldn't be a problem...the HE-6? Is a different animal.....dunno 'bout that one.

 


Edited by achristilaw - 7/18/11 at 10:06pm
post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by achristilaw View Post




 Amp stability is the key (much of which stems efficiency from the important PS). The "peak" power of some designs isn't a true indicator of actual performance under load. Would 2 watts sound twice as loud as 1 watt? No.... 1 watt would need to be 10 watts (to double the output)....10 watts would turn into 100 etc. (factors of 10) as needed for no clipping of signal at output (under load). Much is load interaction, and then how we perceive loudness for starters.  

 

 How the Headphone will amp see individual loads, and remain unaffected, is what your after! The resistive (Ortho) or the resistive/reactive (conventional) are not the same needs....but can be handled by a single, stable platform. The Audez'e shouldn't be a problem...the HE-6? Is a different animal.....dunno 'bout that one.

 


Thank you professor :D.

 

Well I'll just wait for Skylab review then. Thanks for your impressions !

 

post #71 of 84

I will have the review done in a few more days, but the short answer is, the Arete can do the LCD-2 very well, but NOT the HE-6.

post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

I will have the review done in a few more days, but the short answer is, the Arete can do the LCD-2 very well, but NOT the HE-6.



You need a RC network and bonified speaker taps for those....I suspect....

post #73 of 84

Yes, IME, they need several WATTS, not milliwatts, on tap, in order to sound at ease dynamically.  Calls for a specialized headphone amp, or a speaker amp.  However, the HE-6 is atypical in this regard.  I use them mostly from my high-powered vintage stereo receivers.

post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Yes, IME, they need several WATTS, not milliwatts, on tap, in order to sound at ease dynamically.  Calls for a specialized headphone amp, or a speaker amp.  However, the HE-6 is atypical in this regard.  I use them mostly from my high-powered vintage stereo receivers.



   Like my luv-erly, fully restored Marantz 2285B? Hint.....hint...hinty-hint..... 

post #75 of 84

looks great, would be great to give it a listen.

 

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