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Mouse -Fi - Page 38

post #556 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by 343 Grenadier View Post
 

 

If you don't mind relatively low CPI at around 3200-4000, the Zowie FK1 and Ninox Aurora are viable options. The G400S is also nice if you like comfort. I actually compiled a whole list of optical mice to choose from, if you'd like, but I'd recommend sticking with recommended options from the Geekhack guide linked in the beginning of said list.

 

http://unitdccxxxi.deviantart.com/journal/Optical-Mice-List-Rev-1-0-475927418

Amazing work, well done list!

:beerchug:

post #557 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by 343 Grenadier View Post
 

 

If you don't mind relatively low CPI at around 3200-4000, the Zowie FK1 and Ninox Aurora are viable options. The G400S is also nice if you like comfort. I actually compiled a whole list of optical mice to choose from, if you'd like, but I'd recommend sticking with recommended options from the Geekhack guide linked in the beginning of said list.

 

http://unitdccxxxi.deviantart.com/journal/Optical-Mice-List-Rev-1-0-475927418

 

 

Don't forget super high DPI can actually mean worse tracking in some cases, as most to achieve super high DPIs, will artificially split pixels. Meaning if that pixel was an error (does happen in all mice) it can multiply that error making things worse. That being said, if it really is a quality mouse, it should be ok. (Logitec goes as far as to measure the alignment of the actual diode in the epoxy lens of the LEDs to make sure the supplier is hitting the mark, and they don't generally openly focus on DPI when advertising.) I generally aim for a lower DPI mouse, you know the quality is there if they aren't focusing on the DPI box sticker.

 

There's a lot more to accuracy then DPI. But on the topic of that list, I have heard very good things about Zowie mice from lots of people. I would highly recommend Logitech mice after my G100s experience (I think it goes to 2500dpi? I have mine set at 1250). Lowest end, its non-laser, cost $35, and I simply can't get this thing to have tracking issues, Im a high sensitivity gamer so I generally don't move my mouse enough to cause problems, but Ive actually tried to make this mouse to not track, haven't been successful

 

I wouldn't recommend the 400s when the new 402 has a bunch of other sensors (gyro, accelerator ect) and a 32-bit system on-board, too account for the tracking at high-speed issues the optical sensor might have, IF it ever has any, and its the same price as the 400s. $60

 

Well that's my Logitech fanboy schpeal, if anything that I said didn't get through, dat hydrophobic coating their mice have is enough to make me want to buy all of them o.O

post #558 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeEnCreaTive View Post
 

 

 

Don't forget super high DPI can actually mean worse tracking in some cases, as most to achieve super high DPIs, will artificially split pixels. Meaning if that pixel was an error (does happen in all mice) it can multiply that error making things worse. That being said, if it really is a quality mouse, it should be ok. (Logitec goes as far as to measure the alignment of the actual diode in the epoxy lens of the LEDs to make sure the supplier is hitting the mark, and they don't generally openly focus on DPI when advertising.) I generally aim for a lower DPI mouse, you know the quality is there if they aren't focusing on the DPI box sticker.

 

There's a lot more to accuracy then DPI. But on the topic of that list, I have heard very good things about Zowie mice from lots of people. I would highly recommend Logitech mice after my G100s experience (I think it goes to 2500dpi? I have mine set at 1250). Lowest end, its non-laser, cost $35, and I simply can't get this thing to have tracking issues, Im a high sensitivity gamer so I generally don't move my mouse enough to cause problems, but Ive actually tried to make this mouse to not track, haven't been successful

 

I wouldn't recommend the 400s when the new 402 has a bunch of other sensors (gyro, accelerator ect) and a 32-bit system on-board, too account for the tracking at high-speed issues the optical sensor might have, IF it ever has any, and its the same price as the 400s. $60

 

Well that's my Logitech fanboy schpeal, if anything that I said didn't get through, dat hydrophobic coating their mice have is enough to make me want to buy all of them o.O

 

 

The G402 was reported as having some built-in positive accel. The G502 is said to have very slight prediction but overall the only real complaint people have about it is it's too heavy. The G400S is, as I can attest personally, probably more comfortable than the G502/G402 shape for a lot of people as it's wider. The G100S isn't a bad mouse at all, but I would rate it as less flexible than the Ninox Aurora and more people are likely to find a use for the Zowie FK1's higher sensitivities. Yes, I'm fully aware that lower is more accurate but some people actually perform better at higher sensitivities than the G100S offers, especially in RTS games and while using higher resolutions. There are reasons to consider the alternatives.

 

(Fun fact: I can use the G502 at its 12,000 CPI setting on a 1920x1080 screen. It's not very accurate but I can hold my own. I still use much lower sensitivities when I'm playing seriously, though.)


Edited by 343 Grenadier - 11/16/14 at 1:06pm
post #559 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by 343 Grenadier View Post
 

 

 

The G402 was reported as having some built-in positive accel. The G502 is said to have very slight prediction but overall the only real complaint people have about it is it's too heavy. The G400S is, as I can attest personally, probably more comfortable than the G502/G402 shape for a lot of people as it's wider. The G100S isn't a bad mouse at all, but I would rate it as less flexible than the Ninox Aurora and more people are likely to find a use for the Zowie FK1's higher sensitivities. Yes, I'm fully aware that lower is more accurate but some people actually perform better at higher sensitivities than the G100S offers, especially in RTS games and while using higher resolutions. There are reasons to consider the alternatives.

 

(Fun fact: I can use the G502 at its 12,000 CPI setting on a 1920x1080 screen. It's not very accurate but I can hold my own. I still use much lower sensitivities when I'm playing seriously, though.)

 

You have to define how you set sensitivity though. Even at my relativity "low" setting on my G100S, I have game sensitivity settings at 5-8 out of 100. Anything DPI setting higher on my mouse causes they in-game sliders single notch either be too low or too high. Which all these sliders to is change the muliplier so in theory don't effect accuracy. With my current Windows setting its about a 3-inch movement end to end on my 1080p. All this, and it at 1125 DPI. Max on this mouse is 2500.

 

That being said, the G100 is one of the most popular mouse in Korea for RTS games, hence the "new" G100S.

 

Of course all games sliders are different. 5 mins spent here, of course, will get you make to the normal feel you're used to.

 

Shape is a null point, TBH my old generic optical mouse was the best shape for me (especially with buttons that were separate from the rest of the body), which is another reason why I like my 100s, close to the same. Although single body buttons and a terrible feeling wheel. It's different for everybody.

 

Being a good gamer is half psychological, which means you have to play with what you're comfortable with. If that means an in game sensitivity setting of nothing and super high DPIs to make up for it, that's fine, heck I highly encourage it, But for someone who knows nothing about mouse tech, and is asking what to look for, they shouldn't have super DPI as a requirement pushed onto them. As some gamers swear by it, or others like me don't see a difference in accuracy, and doesn't make much sense mathematically either. 

 

Like I said, this is why Im a Logitech fan boy. Yes their mice do of ridiculous DPI, but they don't push it as a selling point. They instead push the durability, surface materials and that's really it. Im sure I could find a better mouse out there for me, but for that reason alone that I just said, Im a big fan.

 

Now all that being said, the 502 Ive heard really great things about, and have used it, it does feel great (Although I didn't get to use it in a game sadly). Best part is, its adjustable. For relatively cheap


Edited by SeEnCreaTive - 11/16/14 at 5:17pm
post #560 of 567
I am currently on a Logitech G500 but the best one I actually used was my previous G518: far superior to anything I used so far. Unfortunately not fast enough for modern gaming..
post #561 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeEnCreaTive View Post
 

 

You have to define how you set sensitivity though. Even at my relativity "low" setting on my G100S, I have game sensitivity settings at 5-8 out of 100. Anything DPI setting higher on my mouse causes they in-game sliders single notch either be too low or too high. Which all these sliders to is change the muliplier so in theory don't effect accuracy. With my current Windows setting its about a 3-inch movement end to end on my 1080p. All this, and it at 1125 DPI. Max on this mouse is 2500.

 

That being said, the G100 is one of the most popular mouse in Korea for RTS games, hence the "new" G100S.

 

Of course all games sliders are different. 5 mins spent here, of course, will get you make to the normal feel you're used to.

 

Shape is a null point, TBH my old generic optical mouse was the best shape for me (especially with buttons that were separate from the rest of the body), which is another reason why I like my 100s, close to the same. Although single body buttons and a terrible feeling wheel. It's different for everybody.

 

Being a good gamer is half psychological, which means you have to play with what you're comfortable with. If that means an in game sensitivity setting of nothing and super high DPIs to make up for it, that's fine, heck I highly encourage it, But for someone who knows nothing about mouse tech, and is asking what to look for, they shouldn't have super DPI as a requirement pushed onto them. As some gamers swear by it, or others like me don't see a difference in accuracy, and doesn't make much sense mathematically either. 

 

Like I said, this is why Im a Logitech fan boy. Yes their mice do of ridiculous DPI, but they don't push it as a selling point. They instead push the durability, surface materials and that's really it. Im sure I could find a better mouse out there for me, but for that reason alone that I just said, Im a big fan.

 

Now all that being said, the 502 Ive heard really great things about, and have used it, it does feel great (Although I didn't get to use it in a game sadly). Best part is, its adjustable. For relatively cheap

 

Personally, I'm opposed to any kind of brand loyalty since it can cause someone to recommend one product over another which may be better for specific requirements. I'm also opposed to people making recommendations based solely on their own preferences while failing to factor in that not everyone is like them. And as if to prove my point, I'm seeing some bias here.

 

First off, some people do indeed pay a lot of attention to mouse shape. The rear of the G100S is narrow, which might annoy people who want to minimize the amount of contact their palm has with the mousing surface. And I've found the G400S's shape to be extremely comfortable, more so than any other mouse I've used. Of particular note is the fact that there are three different primary grip types and they all require very different shapes relative to each other for any one person's hand. Mouse shape is not at all a "null point."

 

Second off, there are quite a few folks I know who prefer mouse settings around the ballpark of 3K CPI or so. They're not highly competitive players but they still value the accuracy of true CPI as opposed to ingame interpolation. (Any setting above the game's "1.0" setting adds pixels, reducing accuracy further and further the higher up you go.) That a mouse has high CPI doesn't mean it's supposed to sell based on that. Again, see the G502. That said, the G502 is also a bad example, since it is far too heavy for most experienced competitive gamers, who often prefer mice around HALF the weight of the G502.

 

Third off, some companies, like Roccat and Mionix, have mice of comparable build quality to Logitech's, but they tend to be lighter. It's also worth noting, once again, that Logitech's track record for proper internals is mixed. The G402 has acceleration, meaning it might as well be an Avago/Pixart laser mouse. The G502 has slight prediction. The G400S is using a newer SROM which reduces its responsiveness relative to the G400. So if you factor in sensor/firmware performance as well, there are plenty of reasons to steer clear of Logitech. The G100S is one of the things they mostly got right, but it's not for everyone. Me? I do best when I play within the CPI range of the G100S but there are situations where I require higher CPI, such as in some older games which respond sluggishly on modern systems.

 

So my approach with regards to mice is to ascertain both what they want in ergonomics and what they want for sensitivity. For ergonomics, I use their mouse's dimensions and weight as a reference point and ask them how they wish to improve on it, if they want to improve at all. For sensitivity, I ask what their current mouse model is so I can determine the CPI count it's set to, then figure out what ingame settings they use, and calculate whether or not they will benefit from higher CPI. Ex.: Someone who uses 6.0 settings in TF2 with an 800 CPI mouse (I've found this is quite common amongst the less competitive gamers I know.) will want something capable of running at 4800 CPI, which is significantly higher than the 2500 on the G100S, or even the 3200 on the Zowie FK1. Something which runs at the 3310 sensor's native resolution of 5000 will be necessary. One popular choice is the Kone Pure Military, and another would be the Mionix Avior 7000. Neither are exactly perfect but they get the job done for most people.


Edited by 343 Grenadier - 11/19/14 at 5:57pm
post #562 of 567

Thoughts on Logitech G502:

 

Good:

 

-Sensor is great.  L/R click feel is good.

 

Bad:

 

-Shape and ergonomics do not suite my hand.  I can't do claw, fingertip or palm.  None work for me.  The shape might work for someone but I still think it's a bit off.

-Mac software is broken

-Scroll wheel is pretty mediocre in feel, but main problem is its stupidly heavy and this ruins the balance of the mouse, and makes it heavier than it needs to be, increases fatigue, RSI etc.

-Weights are (always) useless, mouse is already too heavy and I don't want more RSI thank you.  No serious gamer uses weighs.  Nobody else should use them either.  Stupid gimmick idea.

 

 

Overall mouse has good sensors and buttons.  The rest is pretty sub-par.  I would not recommend.


Edited by drez - 11/20/14 at 9:17pm
post #563 of 567

Is the weight seriously that big of an issue for people? I have a rather injured wrist and have just kinda turned up the dpi on the g502 to compensate for that.

 

I'm doing a claw grip on mine fine. I leave my scroll wheel unlocked, pretty much unlocked scroll wheels are the reason I keep using logitech g series mice.

 

I disagree about the weights but I guess it is different stroke for different folks. I don't use any in my g502 or in my g9x but I have a few friends who use some weight and ultra low dpi in shooters or in mmos. My brother in his mouse uses the max weight he can.

post #564 of 567

From my experience it's not only injury but fatigue.  More weight = more strain IMO.  I used to find my performance would peak out but fatigue then kicks in and performance drops.  to me g502 feels significantly heavier than SS Rival or Roccat Kone XTD - feels heavier even pushing around the mousepad.  I'm sure that must translate to less speed and proportionally faster fatigue point.  Actually the Roccat shape is pretty poor for gaming but massively comfortable for work just palming it.

 

Maybe when you are younger fatigue takes longer to kick in, also for me gaming comes in after a full day of pushing a mouse around at work - which is actually where I do most of my mouse miles (CAD drafting and 3D).  I used to use G9X but the scroll broke on me.  Free scroll is OK but not worth the weight.

 

The shape is not that bad actually, just the weight really puts me of.

 

One other advantage to g502 - mouse click input lag has tens of milliseconds over other mice, which would probably help in ambush situations, but if the mouse needs to move I think the weight would slow things down and kill the advantage.

 

For me if they just put the 502 sensor in 402 shell that would be a perfect mouse, but instead they had to go crazy with features which nobody should use IMO.  Logitech must be massive trolls lol.

 

I watch a lot of pro gaming and have never seen a mouse model used which allows for weights.  Lots of Zowie, SS Kinzu, Razer DA, a couple of SS Rival.

post #565 of 567

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear

I see quite a few logitech g9x, whether they use weights or not is a different question. Some Korean pros I've seen a g9x with like no shell or anything on it so yeah may be different gamers different preferences. Also a lot of pro gamers are just using their sponsors gear.

 

All the tech inside the g502 maybe the reason for its weight, over engineering and trying to appeal to all.

 

Guess it mostly different people different tastes. I'm pretty content with the weight of the g9x and the g502 to where I use my g9x at work and g502 at home.

post #566 of 567
If it works for taeja and mma... different strokes etc. Different requirements for sc vs cs also.

I think the weight difference is all in the scroll wheel though. If I end up using mine for gaming I will remove the wheel and weigh it biggrin.gif extra construction for weight compartment probably adds a few grams too.
post #567 of 567

G9x, mouse of terrans and champions :tongue:

 

Altering such a beautiful mouse :(

 

Oh well its all good lol.

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