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Mid-High end iem upgrade from re0 - Page 2

post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnirai View Post

I have small ear canals and the e-Q5 with small sony hybrids fit me fine. For comparison, I could only use the small stock single-flanges for my RE0.

 

For what it's worth, I was in the exact same situation as the OP (except my RE0s didn't die, I just felt like upgrading) and desired the same general sound signature. The e-Q5 was my choice after listening to many mid to high-end universals and it did not disappoint. 


Could you elaborate, what other Mid to High-end unis you auditioned along with e-Q5? also where did you do it in person at a shop in Japan?

 

post #17 of 46

I asked this same question as you about 3 weeks ago and I ended up buying the CK10 and a Brainwavz B2 (to come). You said comfort is a priority and I cannot think of anything more comfortable than this headphone. The treble and mids sound better than my RE-0s and has a little larger bass emphasis. It satisfied my need for a high end Re-0 upgrade but the trouble is finding a legit one.

post #18 of 46

I have an RE0 on the way and I'll see how it compares to what I've used so far.

 

I know Fang mentioned they had a slight problem with people returning the RE0 (mostly non head-fi'ers) due to it being bass-light.

 

For some people, they only want an involving and bass-heavy IEM, something that makes you want to dance, and get into the music, and that is all, not necessarily high-quality sound.

 

From that perspective, I believe a "down-grade" to something like the A-Jays Three would satisfy those people, more than an "upgrade" to the CK10, which has a similiar bass-light, neutral signature, however more artificial sounding and slightly[?] less involving than the A-Jays Three, from a "get up and dance" perspective.

 

From what I've read, I'm pretty sure the A-Jays Three has far better build-quality, far better packaging, and increased soundstage over the RE0.

 

Just trying to help those people out, that kept returning the RE0.

 

No eq'ing on the CK10 can turn it into the heavenly ghettoblaster that is the A-Jays Three.

 

 

 


Edited by kiteki - 6/14/11 at 5:48am
post #19 of 46
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnirai View Post

I have small ear canals and the e-Q5 with small sony hybrids fit me fine. For comparison, I could only use the small stock single-flanges for my RE0.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChorusofAngels View Post

I happen to own a pair of the re-262.  I really like them.  Honestly I liked them better than the MTPC that lots of people seem to like a lot in this thread.  The bass isn't that strong, but clear.  Mids are warm and while highs are airy but not overly bright. 


I went to read up on re262 n e-q5 comparisons, and they seem pretty even. Both seem microphonic tho. Hm, but the re262 seems to like being amped, but is cheaper ($149 vs $248). Have there been reports of e re262 cable dying early? Like my re0s (7 mths)

 

I'm not sure bt the ck10. Seems too similar to e re0, and i understand phones like ck10, dba-02 with e tight, "controlled" bass has their merits for some genres and their set of fans, But after having e re0 for sometime, I cant help but like a little more oomph in the lows. Not eardrum shattering bass of cos. I mean I've played in a band, and those kick drums are thunderous. So personally I think its fair to like some low-end impact in my music . Just a pinch :)

 

But you know what singha, I'll try to audition the ck10 one day. Comfort is paramount. Funny thing, I put on my old meelec m6 today, and the bass felt too strong.. Talk about getting used to the re0 sound...

 


Edited by mogumagnus - 6/14/11 at 1:59am
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by yello131 View Post




Could you elaborate, what other Mid to High-end unis you auditioned along with e-Q5? also where did you do it in person at a shop in Japan?

 

Well I had to be there to listen so yes I did it in person, not in Japan but I don't think that matters! The ones I've heard are VSonic GR07, Ortofon e-Q7/5, Final Audio Heaven-A, UE TF10, Westone 4, UM3X, Shure SE535, Earsonics SM3, Futuresonics Atrio, Radius DDM1, Fischer Audio DBA-02, and I might easily have missed out a few others but suffice to say I listened to a lot over many days before I made my choice. It is not to say that the e-Q5 are the best of the lot, but when I combined a whole lot of factors (looks, budget, desired sound sig, comfort etc) I went with the 5s and have not been disappointed. My choice might easily have been different if I had no budget limit, of course (looking at the Westones here).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogumagnus View Post


 

 


I went to read up on re262 n e-q5 comparisons, and they seem pretty even. Both seem microphonic tho. Hm, but the re262 seems to like being amped, but is cheaper ($149 vs $248). Have there been reports of e re262 cable dying early? Like my re0s (7 mths)

 

I cannot speak for the 262 for I do not own them (I've owned RE0 and never had build problems, but there are a number of complaints with regards to Hifiman's build quality), but the e-Q5s have outstanding build quality. Microphonics can be troublesome cable-down but of course easily fixed worn over-the-ear (yes they can be worn over the ear, the cables are soft and if one still has problems some wire guides will keep them there). Comfort is so-so, not to the extent of being a fit problem as some seem to suggest the ortofons are prone to, but not the most comfortable, disappear-into-your-ear and perfect-for-sleep-use type either.
 

 

post #21 of 46

If you are looking for a change from your RE-0 the CK10 won't do it for you. I love the sound signature of the RE-0 so the CK10 was exactly what I was looking for. I bought a pair of MTPCs cause I was looking for something more fun and bass heavy and just found myself going back to the RE-0s.  I guess I'm just warning you to be careful what you wish for and keep your RE-0s in a drawer cause you just may come back to them.

post #22 of 46

What's it like going from CK10 to RE0?

post #23 of 46

I noticed that you just sold your CK10 and bought an RE-0 cause I remember thinking why this didn't happen a month earlier when I was desperately searching for one. I have had my CK10s for two week now and don't find myself going back that much. The RE-0 and CK10 are so similar that I don't think I'll be going back. The CK10 gives me the transparency and everything I loved about the RE-0s, but with more depth and fullness. The real question is was the CK10 worth 3x the price of RE-0s, and I am not sure I can answer that. But I don't think that you will be missing the CK10 too much because the RE-0s will give you enough of the nostalgic CK10 sound.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

What's it like going from CK10 to RE0?



 

post #24 of 46

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by singha View Post

I don't think that you will be missing the CK10 too much because the RE-0s will give you enough of the nostalgic CK10 sound.

 

That's great!  Yes that was my idea, I liked the ck10 a lot, but for $270? I couldn't quite justify it, and needed some cash, kinda... ended up trading for an X1051.

I'm hoping the RE0 will fill the new emptiness in my life that is the ck10 void... so I don't need medication... just kidding... but I'm curious how the RE0 can sound like the ck10, with a dynamic driver?  I'm speculating the RE0 will have a lack of layering and imaging compared to the dual BA driver - but as a dynamic, I feel the RE0 should technically have something to offer the ck10 doesn't have.  Sometimes when I had the ck10 I was thinking I'd like that sound -> from a dynamic driver.

You'd think RE252 would be compared to the ck10 more often? Since it's the balanced king, but nope, always RE0.

 

It sounded great from my Teclast T51 HO, but it wasn't a perfect synergy, I have a hunch there's a better DAP for it out there, shame I didn't find out which one.  User High_Q has mentioned he found a perfect synergy between RE0 and the Sony NWZ-S636F though, which he has for sale.

 

From your description, "depth and fullness", well I don't find the ck10 very deep and full, I think it has limited range but does everything very well in that range, I guess the RE0 will be "thin and empty" in comparison, oh well whatever. =)

 


Edited by kiteki - 6/14/11 at 6:26am
post #25 of 46

Just make sure you use the RE0's amped or with a source that can drive higher impedence earbuds.  I can't stand them straight out of my iPhone.  They're very hollow sounding, much more than the CK10s unamped.   With a E5 though the RE0's are great.

 

The one advantage the RE0's have over the CK10 is for the bass it does have, there's more kick to it.  That's definitely something about the dynamic driver versus balanced armature.   They just don't move air like a dynamic does.  The CK10 still has more bass overall, and goes lower with more clarity.

post #26 of 46

More kick in the bass? Wonderful.

 

I'll be using a Teclast T51, it's a pretty high ouput DAP that can handle 'phones like the OK1 easily, hopefully synergy will be nice with it.

post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

That's great!  Yes that was my idea, I liked the ck10 a lot, but for $270? I couldn't quite justify it, and needed some cash, kinda... ended up trading for an X1051.

I'm hoping the RE0 will fill the new emptiness in my life that is the ck10 void... so I don't need medication... just kidding... but I'm curious how the RE0 can sound like the ck10, with a dynamic driver?  I'm speculating the RE0 will have a lack of layering and imaging compared to the dual BA driver - but as a dynamic, I feel the RE0 should technically have something to offer the ck10 doesn't have.  Sometimes when I had the ck10 I was thinking I'd like that sound -> from a dynamic driver.

You'd think RE252 would be compared to the ck10 more often? Since it's the balanced king, but nope, always RE0.

 

It sounded great from my Teclast T51 HO, but it wasn't a perfect synergy, I have a hunch there's a better DAP for it out there, shame I didn't find out which one.  User High_Q has mentioned he found a perfect synergy between RE0 and the Sony NWZ-S636F though, which he has for sale.

 

From your description, "depth and fullness", well I don't find the ck10 very deep and full, I think it has limited range but does everything very well in that range, I guess the RE0 will be "thin and empty" in comparison, oh well whatever. =)

 

 

RE0 doesn't sound thin at all. I just received another pair yesterday. They changed it once again. The cable is different now and the housing was altered slightly as well. Dammit - now I have to worry if the sound was affected. Why not just leave this excellent IEM alone? I  think the last revision with the PPE cable was just fine and the sound improved compared to the older RE0 versions.

 

But anyway, this RE0 I got sounds very full out of the box. The notes are weighty and realistic in presence, but compared to the older version with the PPE cable, the dynamic range seems compressed. The older version I have had the foams removed from the nozzles though, so it sounds brighter and clearer as expected, but I would rather prefer a bit of foam in there to tame the highs which can get overly bright at times with the foam removed. So far, I am not sure I like what I am hearing, but from my experience RE0 does need at least 100 hours of burn in to settle its sound completely, so I won't make any definite judgments yet.

 

Last night, I compared the new RE0 with my e-Q5 and the e-Q5 was better overall, although with some instrumental music I tried, RE0 sounded superior. Compared to e-Q5, the new RE0 sounds a bit veiled/muddy. The older version with the foam removed doesn't suffer from this, but like I said it's also fully burned in as it is over a year old, so not a fair comparison.

 

What strikes me about the RE0 sound is how neutral and controlled it is. Even though I am currently using it unamped and it sounds a little muddy and veiled and also lacking some bass definition, it still sounds right somehow. It seems to have a perfect tonal balance and timbre. Everything just sounds realistic, although I wish the sound was more dynamic. I am sure plugging it into a good amp will bring out the dynamics though. Even going from Sansa Clip to a decent PC soundcard makes the RE0 sound noticeably livelier. It is really sensitive to source quality.

 

I didn't own CK10, but I did own Q-jays and DBA-02 which are based on the same drivers as CK10 and neither could compete with RE0 in delicacy and smoothness in the upper frequencies and lows. The dual BAs sound coarse, overly aggressive, even grainy by comparison. While RE0 may be missing some dynamic range, the DBA-02 and Q-jays are no better really, especially DBA-02, which I think is actually more compressed than the RE0. I don't consider either of these two to be an upgrade over RE0 overall, although they may be better in some aspects like speed and clarity. RE0 is pretty close in everything. Actually, I consider RE0 a reference product. It is almost perfectly flat and is very accurate tonally. DBA-02 and Q-jays are not reference in my view - they are quite colored vs. RE0. They have brighter, sharper highs, too much attack to be realistic IMO. DBA-02 also decays sounds too quickly IMO.

post #28 of 46

From what I read, even though the Q-jays & DBA-02 are based on the same drivers as you say, they sound very different from the CK10.

 

The CK10 have the clarity and reference quality sound you describe the RE0 having.  

post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mephiska View Post

From what I read, even though the Q-jays & DBA-02 are based on the same drivers as you say, they sound very different from the CK10.

 

The CK10 have the clarity and reference quality sound you describe the RE0 having.  

 

Maybe, although from what I read CK10 has a peak in the mid highs around 10-12 kHz. RE0 doesn't have any peaks like this. Of course with certain tips and sources the peak can be tamed I am sure. Still, I doubt CK10 is as subtle and delicate as the RE0.

 

BTW, my new RE0 is sounding great with the Panama Cat right now (sorry, bad quality, but this is one of my favorite tracks - I don't care lol). Almost perfect in fact, even unamped. Not many headphones I tried do - most sound too bright, too dark, lacking transparency or just have a coloration somewhere that ruins the mood of the track. It's a perfect track for testing tonal balance and mids and RE0 excels in both areas. The sound is butter smooth and the guitars and pads are spot on. A real pleasure to listen to!

post #30 of 46

Well I'm just one person but to me my CK10 have that subtlety and delicacy, only more so than my RE0.

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