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Why do Koss only make 'one' decent headphone ? - Page 2

post #16 of 36

oh god lol, fixed.

post #17 of 36
Thread Starter 

Sigh - McProgger strikes again. If I'm Jerry Seinfeld, McProgger is my 'Newman'.  rolleyes.gif

post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katun View Post


That's EXACTLY what I was going to mention.

 

I think he'll get a kick out of how you spelled his name! biggrin.gif

 



redface.gif hugs n kisses to progman wink.gif



Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMcProgger View Post

oh god lol, fixed.



 

post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMcProgger View Post

I knew tdockweiler was gonna come and post about the dj100. tried it once, wasnt impressed but it was right out of my zune, no amp. so i cant comments about it, as i've heard it needs to be amped.

 

I like Koss, they dont claim to be audiophiles and make good bang per buck budget cans

 

Edtit: spelling biggrin.gif

 

Edit2: and they also offer no questions asked lifetime warranty!

 

I imagined there would be more than two that thought this normal_smile%20.gif

Luckily nobody has accused me of working for Koss yet! I would love to try out some of their old headphones, but it's probably impossible.

 

Yeah, I NEVER EVER use my DJ100 unamped. This may seem weird, but I use my K702 and HD-598 unamped all the time, but not the DJ100! I switch between them 4 days a week for about 30-40 minutes each time confused_face%281%29.gif

Like I always say, the minimum for them to sound "decent" IMO is a Zune HD/Ipod Touch and an E5 and even that combination isn't doing it justice. Not to me. I'm listened to them unamped enough to know that I don't like it.

Strangely unamped they sound kind of harsh?!

 

It seems like some of the most unknown headphones are the best..right now it's the KRK headphones and the DJ100. I'm always on the lookout for closed headphones under $200 that can top these.

 


 

 

post #20 of 36

I disagree.  I used to think the Koss was somehow beneath my consideration but in the end I have more of their phones than any other brand.  I know people like the Protapro family but compared to the DJ100 and ESP950 they fall behind for me.  Not to mention rip out follicles.  I have to give props to Koss for price, performance and warranty.  Apparently I also dig their sound.  Who woulda thunk it.  I've been a Senn hater for more than a decade but they are slowly winning me back too.  Anywho.

 

Count me as a Koss fan! 

 

Despite the scandal, if you look at their revenue stream it's very impressive.  I don't see them going under anytime soon and that scandal is history at this point.

 

Btw, I too hated my first DJ100 as Tdock can remember all to well.  My first major run in w/ product variation in audio.


Edited by Anaxilus - 6/6/11 at 7:06pm
post #21 of 36

Yeah, I always wondered why Koss lost its way. They were THE headphone company 30-40-(gulp--50?) years ago with the Pro 4A line, but never really progressed, and Sennheiser took the lead as the big-time name in conventional phones.

Koss never really made a high end phone unless you consider the esp950, but that was a little weird because it was meant to be used with its own tiny amp (and were barely high-end).

And Stax dominated the planar field.

Good post! Thanks for bringing this up.


Edited by rgs9200m - 6/6/11 at 7:09pm
post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Koss never really made a high end phone unless you consider the esp950, but that was a little weird because it was meant to be used with its own tiny amp (and were barely high-end).

And Stax dominated the planar field.


I consider the amp a bonus accessory.  wink_face.gif  Not to mention its the only electrostat headphone that is kinda portable by design.

 

post #23 of 36

You are decades to late.
Maybe your parents have some forgotten Koss in the garage from their youth.
Now you can ask the right question about some decent headphones.

The PP/KSC Driver is only a low budget Version of a better driver.

Koss has marketing and quality standards problems trough unstructured marketing work.

-In other words, they dethrone trough glorifying PP Marketing and overall mobile Chinese plastic products every good headphone and lost the focus on industry standards. Koss Electronics was the next big mistake, but they should go back in loudspeaker business.
-You can't name every Headphone line Pro like and focus your main product catalog trough the PP glasses.
-If you manufacture hi-fi products, you need to know how to merchandise high class headphones for specific interest group. Even the low entry ATH-A(D)x00 series has better placed hi-fi marketing position.
-They don't optimize with fine tuning standardized products for the future.
-Lost established European market and overpriced product placement. Limited warranty.
-No love from the management and personal on work, corporate identity, history and products. The Website show this dislike very well and the optic is not really professional.

They don't even update the ESP line with up to date travel sized Energizer and a closed ESP frame as a consequent option. From this point I don't see any innovative qualities to buy these 999$ phones.
The ESP line is only a high grade technology Place holder, because the whole dynamic Line is very budget oriented. Not even worth spend 100$ on each headphone.

Look this video and read this Thread. It is a good lecture on marketing mistakes and how good a Koss HP can sound. 13 years after Auditor Koss made the same professional mistakes with Dj pro 100. They don't know, how to design perfectly Dj phones but they manufactured the strongest noise blocking HP in both sides with a max of 40dB without music.
Koss sound stands for body precision and open sound room extensions.
The closed phones stands for long term quality and the better open one for long listening sessions.
Put all together, name it hear safety DJ phone for professionals and the HD-25 see no land.

They introduced in the mid 90 the Reference line and grown down with every new Headphone line backward in sound and build quality with laughing plastic packaging. Great warranty fail, if you buy a 250$ class headphone and the replacement is a PP class headphone. Tell me, if they should replace the Auditor 250, with wich headphone in quality range? The next one is the ESP/950, because there is no equal quality sounding headphone below the Auditor.
In class comparing it is like Sennheiser would replace the HD650 on warranty with the HD2xx/4xx Line.

And sorry, but the current Pro4 line is so bad in quality and sound, that the Broadcast and Studio advertising is a punch in your face. I would choose in aspects of operating efficiency and ergonomics beyerdynamic, AKG K2xx or GM over the Koss, Sennheiser or Sony.

 Maybe someone should take a look on the KDE/250. From review comments the smaller sounding Auditor. I can't test these phones, because they are not more available in my country for a decent price and 250€ is too much for only two years of warranty. Great job Koss. 

Man, i am to long with the manufacturer. Maybe i should take over the business.


Edited by Neighbour - 6/6/11 at 7:21pm
post #24 of 36

The ESP950 was a nice sounding phone--no peaky highs or muddy bass, decent resolution.

More than could be said for a lot of high end phones today. A real value.

It was kind of a 1st draft that maybe could have grown into something great with some R&D.

But it's been unchanged for 20+ years. If I had a product that was still marketable after that long I sure would use it as raw material for improvement.

The same goes for the Pro4A(AAAAAAA... whatever).

 

I can see why such a drift-in-the-wind company got embezzled. No one's driving the bus.

Like Capt. Kirk used to say, "who's minding the store?"


Edited by rgs9200m - 6/6/11 at 7:25pm
post #25 of 36

That is not true. Koss was from what I know a leader back in the seventies with plants around the globe and a very strong market position. 

The Pro4 series was not the Reference Phone for hi-fi. The  HV series was the improvement product and all later dynamic headphones based on these headphones. The latest ESP and Auditor are bit differnet and a strong improvement. 

The Pro4 shares in some variants extended signature of the K271. 

The HV was the forward precision hi-fi can. Today reflecting with the involving forward signature in all variants between Sennheiser (HD6x0) and AKGK240 and sextett.

The current pro4aat sounds like a more precision but cold analitical K141.    
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Yeah, I always wondered why Koss lost its way. They were THE headphone company 30-40-(gulp--50?) years ago with the Pro 4A line, but never really progressed, and Sennheiser took the lead as the big-time name in conventional phones.

Koss never really made a high end phone unless you consider the esp950, but that was a little weird because it was meant to be used with its own tiny amp (and were barely high-end).

And Stax dominated the planar field.

Good post! Thanks for bringing this up.



 

post #26 of 36
Thread Starter 

Er, Neighbour, 'back in the seventies' IS 30-40 years ago. I know - I find it hard to believe too, but it really is that far back.

 

Seems I've unleashed a can of worms with this one  ;)

 

 

post #27 of 36

As Estreeter pointed out, thanks Neighbor for  "agreeing"  with me. :-]

 

 

(I don't know why, but head-fi always cheers me up.)


Edited by rgs9200m - 6/6/11 at 8:40pm
post #28 of 36

anybody tried the MV1? I think it suppose to be their "flagship"

post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMcProgger View Post

anybody tried the MV1? I think it suppose to be their "flagship"



I've tried that before. I gave it a good long listen after burn-in and wanted to like it.

It's actually not horrible and quite good in many ways, but it's a headphone that would be very hard for many people to like. To me there is NOTHING quite like it.

People described it as having "honky" mids, but I don't think it was that bad. It was quite good for vocals.

It's got some of the most forward mids I ever heard in a headphone yet. Even more forward than the DJ100, ATH-AD2000 and HD-598.

I will say that the MV1 also has a ton of detail. It's signature to me was fine, but what killed it for me is that it wasn't as clear sounding as my DJ100.

It's very hard to tell sometimes because when you put it on it immediately sounds less clear, but then it goes away and it's like your brain gets adjusted to it.

 

I kept comparing them side to side with my DJ100 and other headphones and the sound clarity is what killed it for me. That and the weird pads.

The MV1 isn't that muffled sounding, but I heard people say it's even more clear sounding than the Pro4AAT, which was possibly the most muffled sounding headphone I've ever heard over $60.

 

It's kind of interesting that their $80 headphone sounds better than their $110 headphone.

 

Also had the Pro3AAT for awhile. That thing felt like a vice on my head and it had too much bass for me. Don't get me started on the UR-29..ugh.

 

Sometimes I'm temping to try out all their other headphones that are $50-$100 with the hope it uses the DJ100 driver normal_smile%20.gif

 

Still looking for a better open shell than my HD-497 for my DJ100 driver. Maybe the AD300 is worth a try.

post #30 of 36

  If you want really good sound plug the DJ100's into regular stereo reciever.  They sound phenomenal plugged into my Onkyo amp . 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post



 

I imagined there would be more than two that thought this normal_smile%20.gif

Luckily nobody has accused me of working for Koss yet! I would love to try out some of their old headphones, but it's probably impossible.

 

Yeah, I NEVER EVER use my DJ100 unamped. This may seem weird, but I use my K702 and HD-598 unamped all the time, but not the DJ100! I switch between them 4 days a week for about 30-40 minutes each time confused_face%281%29.gif

Like I always say, the minimum for them to sound "decent" IMO is a Zune HD/Ipod Touch and an E5 and even that combination isn't doing it justice. Not to me. I'm listened to them unamped enough to know that I don't like it.

Strangely unamped they sound kind of harsh?!

 

It seems like some of the most unknown headphones are the best..right now it's the KRK headphones and the DJ100. I'm always on the lookout for closed headphones under $200 that can top these.

 


 

 



 

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