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I have an engineering challenge- need to prove the benefit of headphone amps/etc. - Page 3

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeWolf View Post

Well, ever since I was strong enough to hold a screwdriver, I always have known that the best way to get acquainted with your (or anyone elses) things is to dismantle them! Then a few tweaks here and there and honestly- what is the worst that could happen? If some thingies (if they're small then probably not important) are left over after putting it all together, then just pour them in and screw on the lid!


A Singlepower amp hey?
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeWolf View Post

Well, ever since I was strong enough to hold a screwdriver, I always have known that the best way to get acquainted with your (or anyone elses) things is to dismantle them! Then a few tweaks here and there and honestly- what is the worst that could happen? If some thingies (if they're small then probably not important) are left over after putting it all together, then just pour them in and screw on the lid!


Famous last words. I hope you never try that philosophy with a wood chipper.

post #33 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345142 View Post




Famous last words. I hope you never try that philosophy with a wood chipper.


Ahahahaha!

 

post #34 of 45

I'm lucky then that wood chippers aren't too common where I live. Though I've seen my share of flying car manifolds and spark plugs (god bless soviet engineering).

 

Anyways there's nothing better than a good father and daughter soldering experience. If circuit boards are not your thing, then theres always the direct wiring route. Some say that it provides shorter signal path compared to circuit board labyrinths.

post #35 of 45
Thread Starter 

Ok. The Cmoy is cheap, so I'm sure he'd buy it just so I can get a basic understanding of an amplifier, even if it doesn't, in his belief, help.

post #36 of 45
And so it starts (muhaha.....muhahahaha) biggrin.gif

What tin will you use to build it in?

Keep in mind though that a cmoy does not represent what a quality amp provides. It is a lab to understand what each part of an amp does (benefit is you get an amp......wink.gif
post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

And so it starts (muhaha.....muhahahaha) biggrin.gif

What tin will you use to build it in?

Keep in mind though that a cmoy does not represent what a quality amp provides. It is a lab to understand what each part of an amp does (benefit is you get an amp......wink.gif
 

Won't do it. If I can't prove it makes a difference in the first place, he won't buy me the kit. STILL complaining and being ultra-overcritical about the whole "iPod 8-bit sound quality won't invest money in anything related" etc etc. The whole 320kbps story didn't work either, he doesn't even appreciate CD quality. Honestly, would it really make that much of a difference with MY headphones? They are $100, not $1000 dollars. They aren't even monitoring headphones, so I doubt they're that revealing when it comes to source! Still, not budging.

 

EDIT: And also, about the whole bass thing, I'm listening to In for the Kill (Skream's Let's Get Ravey Mix) by La Roux and the bass with the bass boost turned up 9dB @ 50Hz is making my head throb. There is bass in headphones! And trust me, its going really low! mad.gif

 

 

post #38 of 45

An amp most likely won't make an audible difference.

But an amp with bass boost definitely will, so I suggest you look at building a cmoy with bass boost.

Also not only is building an amp "fun" and "interesting", it also provides some very useful knowledge about how amps work.


Edited by jackmccabe - 6/6/11 at 2:40am
post #39 of 45

As mentioned earlier, it's normal for people to want to boost the bass (and treble) when listening at low levels. Many receivers have a setting--usually called "Loudness"--that does exactly this. The iPod has an EQ preset that does the same thing. It won't boost the bass by 9 dB, like you're doing now. In fact, the Bass Boost preset gives you only 6 dB more bass, and on some older iPods,  it can produce audible distortion from clipping.

 

What you really want is a customizable equalizer. If you had an iPad or a newer iPhone or iPod Touch you could just download an app. For very old iPods, you can get custom EQ by installing the Rockbox open source firmware. Unfortunately, the 5th generation iPod Nano isn't listed as one of the supported models.

 

The problem with buying the E7 blind is that it has only 3 fixed bass boost settings. How will you know for sure that one of them will work? I suppose you can look at their frequency response graphs and simulate them with your computer. You'll have a similar concern with any other portable amp, DIY or otherwise. You may be better off getting a cheapo player that has adjustable EQ. A refurb Sandisk Sansa Clip+ or Fuze can be had for $25-$30. Just drive over to the CompUSA on Hillsboro and Military in Deerfield Beach and pick one up. The Clip+ and Fuze have 5-band graphic equalizers, and if that's not flexible enough, you can install Rockbox or return them.

 

So argue like this:

  1. You want to protect your hearing, so you want to listen at low levels.
  2. At low levels, most people don't perceive as much bass and treble. Show him some equal-loudness contours at various listening levels. The original ones are called Fletcher-Munson curves.
  3. Because of #2, a suitable loudness EQ setting is needed. Tell him that most receivers have this feature.
  4. Unfortunately, the 5th generation iPod Nano's Bass Boost and Loudness EQ presets don't have a pre-cut so they result in distortion due to clipping, regardless of the volume level. You'll have to supply some online research to prove this. Otherwise, learn how to use RMAA and Audacity so you can create your own test tones and run some tests. Better yet, let him hear the distortion from the iPod.
  5. Therefore you need a player that has custom EQ.
post #40 of 45
Thread Starter 

The loudness EQ setting does that? Hm, I never knew that is what it was for. To me, it just muffles everything and adds bass. However, I can see how it does help a bit for lower level listening, as I can still hear the bass unlike the others where it sort of disappears. I find that my iPod's EQ seems a little bloated and distorted sometimes. I generally listen on the electronic EQ (which mainly emphasizes bass and treble, but doesn't overdo it), and sometimes I listen to a song, for example Imma Be - Black Eyed Peas and the bass beat just starts sounding kind of distorted. I find the bass boost emphasizes bass, but it doesn't rattle my head any more than regular listening. I can hear it more, but not feel it any more. Also, it tends to take away from other frequencies and sound overpowered. My computer's bass boost is much nicer, because its a separate function and not part of the EQ.

post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuriv View Post

As mentioned earlier, it's normal for people to want to boost the bass (and treble) when listening at low levels. Many receivers have a setting--usually called "Loudness"--that does exactly this. The iPod has an EQ preset that does the same thing. It won't boost the bass by 9 dB, like you're doing now. In fact, the Bass Boost preset gives you only 6 dB more bass, and on some older iPods,  it can produce audible distortion from clipping.

 

What you really want is a customizable equalizer. If you had an iPad or a newer iPhone or iPod Touch you could just download an app. For very old iPods, you can get custom EQ by installing the Rockbox open source firmware. Unfortunately, the 5th generation iPod Nano isn't listed as one of the supported models.

 

The problem with buying the E7 blind is that it has only 3 fixed bass boost settings. How will you know for sure that one of them will work? I suppose you can look at their frequency response graphs and simulate them with your computer. You'll have a similar concern with any other portable amp, DIY or otherwise. You may be better off getting a cheapo player that has adjustable EQ. A refurb Sandisk Sansa Clip+ or Fuze can be had for $25-$30. Just drive over to the CompUSA on Hillsboro and Military in Deerfield Beach and pick one up. The Clip+ and Fuze have 5-band graphic equalizers, and if that's not flexible enough, you can install Rockbox or return them.

 

So argue like this:

  1. You want to protect your hearing, so you want to listen at low levels.
  2. At low levels, most people don't perceive as much bass and treble. Show him some equal-loudness contours at various listening levels. The original ones are called Fletcher-Munson curves.
  3. Because of #2, a suitable loudness EQ setting is needed. Tell him that most receivers have this feature.
  4. Unfortunately, the 5th generation iPod Nano's Bass Boost and Loudness EQ presets don't have a pre-cut so they result in distortion due to clipping, regardless of the volume level. You'll have to supply some online research to prove this. Otherwise, learn how to use RMAA and Audacity so you can create your own test tones and run some tests. Better yet, let him hear the distortion from the iPod.
  5. Therefore you need a player that has custom EQ.


Excellent suggestion. You got your feature/benefit covered right there. And 18KHz is excellent BTW.

 

post #42 of 45

im gonna have to subscribe to this popcorn.gif

post #43 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMcProgger View Post

im gonna have to subscribe to this popcorn.gif


Why? ph34r.gif

post #44 of 45

to read it later when i have more time

post #45 of 45
Thread Starter 

Ah.. ok. Lol.

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