Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Discussions › yet another y1 full++/y2 build
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

yet another y1 full++/y2 build

post #1 of 25
5/29/11 at 10:15pm
Thread Starter 
Hello all!

I started biulding Y1 and Y2 day before yesterday and all is not going so well.

The Y1 was easy enough to finish the SMD components. I got all the SMD's and logic gates soldered on without problems. I dont really know how to test for good connections just yet, i'm still reading on that but I have a little analog volt/ohm/amp meter that I can use.

The Y2 has not gone well at all. Apparently if you buy a 15 dollar soldering iron, you get 15 dollars worth of quality from it. my cone tip got completely mishapen, wether it was from the soft plasticy brillo pad I used to clean it or what I dont know, but it basically gave me so many bridges on that TI chip. Eventually it snagged one of the pins and broke it. As I tried to desolder the TI chip using the fresh chisel tip, it broke one of the traces off of the board so that was more or less an unrecoverable error. Total cost of that mistake is looking to be about 40 bucks. 15 for a new Y2 board and 15 for a new TI chip, plus shipping.

I dont feel comfortable using this soldering iron anymore as the only even marginally useful tip it came with was the conical tip, and that was way too blunt. I'm wondering if I should dump this weller iron altogether or attempt to return it to amazon. It was an SP23LK 25 watt soldering iron. Its not that it got too hot or anything, the temperature was easy enough to deal with. The TI chip and the wolfson just have such little spacing between the leads that there's no way a novice like me can manage to solder it. Ive only soldered battery holder wires to motor casings before, nothing this intricate. I know I screwed up the TI chip because every single lead had 0 resistance between leads per side. ie on the left side of the chip, there was only one lead that had some resistance registering, but aprt from that every lead was showing 0 resistance with other leads on the side it shared, meaning the entire thing was just one giant lead.

Can anyone give me some advice on these problems? All the hard junk is done for now for the Y1, all thats left is through-hole soldering, which wasnt terribly difficult. What soldering iron should I get, knowing i've already blown WAY past my dad's proposed $200 budget? (its cost closer to 330 now, so every extra dollar is another nail in my coffin). ChipQuik is now a necessity, but I definately cant carry on with this soldering iron and weller doesnt even make tips for it, so a different soldering iron model is definately the only way out I see.

Pics will follow soon of my current (halted) progress
Reply
post #2 of 25
5/29/11 at 11:02pm

I'd get a Hakko 936 or one of its knock-off variants from Amazon or eBay and call it a day when it comes to your soldering iron. It's got adjustable heat and it's easy to clean the tip on the wet sponge that comes with the kit.

 

Don't worry about mucking up your board. I did the same thing recently with my Gamma-2 board. Mine was built and working fine for a long time. Then recently, I was having issues with my left channel not working. I used Chip Quik to remove the Wolfson chip, but ended up picking up a trace along with the chip. Now I'm redoing a whole new board.

 

I guess it really comes down to being patient and going slowly when soldering SMD. I've done a few Gamma-2s and Gamma-1s with success not counting my latest mess up. Get some desoldering wick. That always helps with solder bridges. There are videos out there that help with surface mount soldering especially this one... http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101/.

 

Finally, read the directions carefully on AMBs website. If you go step by step with the directions you should have close to no issues.

 

Good luck!

Reply
post #3 of 25
5/29/11 at 11:19pm

have you been using a liberal amount of flux for the smd chips?   I'll admit the y-2 smd chips are not easy especially for a beginner.  First, I'd recommend you purchase a 6X or 10x loupe to inspect your work.   

 

I learned just as you, that a cheap soldering iron catches up to you as you start to do more complicated work.  I'd recommend a hakko 936..It is by far the best tool purchase I've made (besides the hakko 808!)If you plan on doing more projects down the road, a quality iron is essential. 

 

chip quick will save you if you mess up the chips.  but imo the key is lots of FLUX.

 

I'd finish the y-1 first and get it powered up, before mating it with the y-2.  It will save you troubleshooting down the road.  

Reply
post #4 of 25
5/30/11 at 7:34am

Weller wes51/wes51d is also a good choice. In my experience solder wick can be a life saver for closely spaced smd components. If you have a bridge you just lay the wick on top of the leads, apply the iron, and it sucks up all of the excess solder.

 

Edit: Also you shouldn't need to use anything abrasive to clean the tips. When you are done soldering just apply some solder to the tip before you turn it off. This will protect it from oxidizing. When you turn it back on you can wipe the solder off onto your damp sponge and the tip should be good to go. 


Edited by bcg27 - 5/30/11 at 7:37am
Reply
post #5 of 25
5/30/11 at 9:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post

... In my experience solder wick can be a life saver for closely spaced smd components. If you have a bridge you just lay the wick on top of the leads, apply the iron, and it sucks up all of the excess solder.

 

Edit: Also you shouldn't need to use anything abrasive to clean the tips. When you are done soldering just apply some solder to the tip before you turn it off. This will protect it from oxidizing. When you turn it back on you can wipe the solder off onto your damp sponge and the tip should be good to go. 


I found this out the hard way. The sponge thing i used was basically plastic, and I dont think it really counts as "abrasive" but then again we dont use it on our teflon pans, so theres probably some logic to that. I learned that to thoroughly clean oxidization buildup you basically jsut flood the tip with solder and the black crap comes right off. Would have been nice to know to ALWAYS keep the tip tinned before I started the project, would have saved my crappy tip :P I'm definately getting a cheap yellow porous sponge too, this brillo one has almost no holes to catch any of the solder and gunk. its like using a damp cloth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by particleman14 View Post

have you been using a liberal amount of flux for the smd chips?   I'll admit the y-2 smd chips are not easy especially for a beginner.  First, I'd recommend you purchase a 6X or 10x loupe to inspect your work.   

 

I learned just as you, that a cheap soldering iron catches up to you as you start to do more complicated work.  I'd recommend a hakko 936..It is by far the best tool purchase I've made (besides the hakko 808!)If you plan on doing more projects down the road, a quality iron is essential. 

 

chip quick will save you if you mess up the chips.  but imo the key is lots of FLUX.

 

I'd finish the y-1 first and get it powered up, before mating it with the y-2.  It will save you troubleshooting down the road.  


I've been using a lot of liquid no-clean flux. It was working nicely initially but i found that it just drains out of my through-hole parts. i picked up some paste flux and a brush at the store to see if that will go better. the tackyness should help me hold the chips in place too. I'm gonna work on both boards at once but I was planning on testing first the Y1 as a standalone before even trying to mate them. I was really trying to not break the bank with a 100 dollar iron, but if thats what it takes, then i'd rather do the project right. i wouldnt tighten a philips head screw with a flathead or a knife, so i guess this same logic applies to picking a soldering iron. My future career aspirations are to be a computer engineer and I planned to get into arduino projects down the line anyways, so perhaps it is a good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mullet View Post

I'd get a Hakko 936 or one of its knock-off variants from Amazon or eBay and call it a day when it comes to your soldering iron. It's got adjustable heat and it's easy to clean the tip on the wet sponge that comes with the kit.

 

Don't worry about mucking up your board. I did the same thing recently with my Gamma-2 board. Mine was built and working fine for a long time. Then recently, I was having issues with my left channel not working. I used Chip Quik to remove the Wolfson chip, but ended up picking up a trace along with the chip. Now I'm redoing a whole new board.

 

I guess it really comes down to being patient and going slowly when soldering SMD. I've done a few Gamma-2s and Gamma-1s with success not counting my latest mess up. Get some desoldering wick. That always helps with solder bridges. There are videos out there that help with surface mount soldering especially this one... http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101/.

 

Finally, read the directions carefully on AMBs website. If you go step by step with the directions you should have close to no issues.

 

Good luck!


I've looked at tons of "how to solder" videos, esp. the SMD ones. I was doing a great job with that first board, its just that the TI has such ridiculously fine pitch. A quick update for everyone, i went to Home Depot and picked up a 40W weller pencil-type soldering iron that has a nice thin tip. It gets to about 900 degrees, but im speedy enough with soldering that I dont make contact with the chip for more than a second at any time anyways. The only time that happened was when I was trying to desolder the TI hex inverter chip. And I totally get what curiousinventor meant by "almost impossible" when they were talking about desoldering. I'm going to invest in chipquik before I try that number again :P I think i'll also check with my school and my dad's work if there is a second hand soldering iron I can buy, or I can check craigslist. I have no idea what kind of temperature I'm supposed to be working at, i've heard people say to keep it low so as to not fry the chip and i've heard the other end where people say a high temp will make the lead heat up quickly but not the component (like searing meat without cooking the inside).

Didnt get to picture time today, had to do the lawn cuz of memorial day. I'll post progress either tomorrow or the day after. i'm expecting my parts within about a week now. The TI part will be here in a couple days because digikey is ridiculous like that, the AMB board wont be here for a bit though.
Reply
post #6 of 25
5/31/11 at 4:37am

900 (I'm assuming Fahrenheit because that would be ridiculously hot Celcius) is probably too hot. I usually like to work somewhere around 700-750 Fahrenheit.

Reply
post #7 of 25
5/31/11 at 11:25am

I usually work around 600 degrees. The guy in that curious inventor video says his iron is at 610 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm assuming anywhere between 600 and 700 degrees F should be fine.

Reply
post #8 of 25
5/31/11 at 1:48pm
Thread Starter 
i think i'm going to buy a dimmer switch or see if there is one laying around so I can make a ghetto temperature controller for this soldering iron. Also, for some reason the site doesnt email me whenever someone replies to this thread.....
Reply
post #9 of 25
5/31/11 at 2:15pm

It is good to see that you are not going to get too disappointed by the experience with a so-so iron. I use the Weller SP40L corded iron and even though I don't have the correct tips for it, I still use it more than a Radio Shack or Pace MBT soldering stations. Maybe there is something wrong with yours, or it just doesn't have enough juice to get hot. I noticed while shopping for another backup corded iron the other day, that not all of these corded irons are rated at the same temperature. Some of them are pretty low temp. 

 

I noticed when using the Radio Shack and Pace station irons, that I always keep turning up the heat until it's at least 800 degrees fahrenheit or more, usually more. I think the Weller SP40L is rated at 900 degrees. I like more heat, to work quickly, and control the heat by the amount of time spend dwelling on the joint. It works for me.

Reply
post #10 of 25
5/31/11 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
I just blew about 300 bucks on parts for these two projects and my only other options for music is to listen through my laptops' built in jacks. I'm not about to give up after just one screw up :P

I think I just got the SP40L. its basically the same looking as the sp23lk but its a 40 watt and has a nice pointy tip. I was pretty sure I could get by with this much heat, and its always easy to just limit the power going into the iron since its got no complicated circuitry inside. Its much harder to try to make the iron hotter than it is rated for. This way i can even take the crappy one I got from amazon and repackage it into the home depot stuff and return it to them. If they notice, "oh man my mistake, sorry, the other one looks the exact same, i must have gotten them mixed up". if they dont notice, i just got a free 40 watt soldering iron with a fine tip biggrin.gif. once those new parts come in i'm going to continue the project. If I get bored enough tonight i'll take a few shots of my progress on the Y1 and my f***up on the Y2 and post them on here.

Does anyone have experience removing flux from the board? I got some 91% isopropyl alcohol (that was the purest I could find in stores around here) and I figured i'd use a soft tooth brush to get all the flux residue off of the board. Also, how do I keep the flux from draining out from underneath the chip?
Edited by shrimants - 5/31/11 at 2:43pm
Reply
post #11 of 25
5/31/11 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

 Also, how do I keep the flux from draining out from underneath the chip?


Not sure what you mean here. Could you give some more detail.

 

 

Alcohol is fine for cleaning flux after you're done soldering. It can remove some of the labeling on capacitors sometimes, but no biggie. A toothbrush helps, especially after the alcohol dries and you have a white looking coating left on the board, that can then be partially remove with a dry toothbrush.

 

Reply
post #12 of 25
5/31/11 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 
Each large surface mount chip has a little through hole either near or underneath it. I am using liquid flux and i have the board sitting on top of a white napkin (the bounty/charmin kind). I've been flooding the chip with flux and that more or less keeps the solder from bridging or making peaks, however the flux just drains from one of the through-hole areas into the napkin underneath, meaning I'm having to reflood the chip every 3-4 pins that I solder. as I said, I got some paste flux instead of liquid flux to see if that will make it easier, but its a bumer that the liquid flux keeps draining into the napkin instead of staying around the chip. it boils off too rapidly to use just a thin coating.
Reply
post #13 of 25
5/31/11 at 3:15pm

I've never used that much before, building the Y1 or Y2. I just coated the surface pads on the pcb and it seemed to go pretty good. Just align the chip and solder one pin by wetting the iron tip with a little solder and just touching the pin on the chip where it meets the pad and it instantly makes a joint. Works perfect almost every time. Apply some more solder to the iron tip 2 or 3 pins, not much just a little. If I have trouble with one pin then I apply a little more liquid flux to that one and try again. 

 

There is a video I watched before doing the Y1. I'll try to dig it up.

Reply
post #14 of 25
5/31/11 at 3:23pm

Here you go, this is the one I watched and used the most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY

 

 

And here is an excellent video by Warren of Tengentsoft.net

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2536889/tangent_tutorial_3_surface_mount_soldering_techniques/

 

 

You will find almost everything you need to know by going to amb.org(scroll down on the main page) and tangentsoft.net

Reply
post #15 of 25
5/31/11 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 
500
This is the board I screwed up on. You can see the top left corner where it got so bad that I called it quits on the board and the chip. Initially the pin was bent, eventually both the lead and the pad got damaged.

500
Half of the Y1 board so far.

500
Bottom Half of the Y1 Board

everywhere I've checked says I should have shiny joints but all my joints look gray and gross no matter what. Is it the solder I'm using or am I screwing up somehow? Or is it just that theres flux on it and it needs to be cleaned? My soldering iron itself does the same thing. Solder on it will remain shiny initially but turn kinda gray and dull until I wipe it on the damp (NOT WET, thanks for the tip, head-fi) sponge.
Edited by shrimants - 5/31/11 at 3:38pm
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Discussions › yet another y1 full++/y2 build