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How much more bass does HD650 have than HD600?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Refers to both mid bass, and, more importantly sub bass.

 

I'm finding my new version HD650 very deficient in sub-bass - is that normal and are the HD600 equal, more or less in this regard for sub bass?

post #2 of 17

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post #3 of 17

And now for the perennial question: What amp are you using?

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 

E9. Should be plenty powerful for both, no?

post #5 of 17

E9 gives enough power to HD6X0, but offcourse headphones like these will benefit from even better DAC/Amps.

I've used E7/E9 combo with HD580/600/650 and was perfectly happy. Once you go the upgrading route, it's hard to go back, but I still think E9 is a very decent amp


Edited by Proglover - 5/29/11 at 12:18pm
post #6 of 17

I think that due to the extended midbass of the HD650 the subbass may be perceived a bit less pronounced. Just a theory.

 

post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 

I've downgraded from a Graham Slee Solo because - I have come to realize that as long as my headphones are being fed enough power by the amp they're plugged into and the signal path is clean I CAN'T notice a difference between amps (solid state at least). That's just me, you may have golden ears. I didn't get the E7 with the E9 as I'm holding out for when the E17 is released!!

 

So svenski - have you noticed a perceived greater sub-bass quantity from the HD600 vs the HD650 mainly due to the HD600's lack of a mid-bass hump?

 

Mid bass dominates the lower end of electric guitars, is that right? If it is, could that be why I feel guitars are pushed so forward with rock/metal in the HD650's presentation - sounding almost Grado-like with the guitars?

post #8 of 17

unfortunately I never was in the position to compare the HD600 and HD650 but when I got the HD650 I was really struck by their midbass presence compared to my HD595. Initially this led me to believe they had less subbass. At the time this had partially to do with the poor amplification but even now that they are driven by the E9 I still wonder on occasion. On the E9 the mids are really well controlled and forward including the midbass.  I convinced myself that there is little problem with the subbass by slightly attenuating the midbass range (150hz-350hz). Immediately it sounds less forward and I seem to notices the lower frequencies a bit more. I guess this has to do with the way we perceive different frequency ranges in relation to volume. I have now become used to the signature of the HD650 and love them as they are. On a few occasions I add some very low frequencies (50Hz) via EQ but not more than 3-4dB as otherwise it starts to spill and washes out the rest of the spectrum. Not sure if I explained myself well. Perhaps somebody else has a more technical explanation?

post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 

Oh I think I've cracked why my HD650 were sounding sub-bass light - the answer lay not in the amp but the source.  With my old HD650 I used a 4th generation iPod 40gb through a line out dock amplified by a Graham Slee Voyager. My new set up is new HD650 with an iPod Classic 120gb (which is 6th generation) through a line out dock amplified by a Fiio E9.

 

When I dug out my 4th generation and plugged it into the E9 - all the sub bass and bass impact came back.

 

It's a shame they changed the DAC chip in the new iPod - the old one genuinely sounds warmer with much better bass and less shrill treble and the difference is noticeable - that's from someone who admits not being able to pick up on these types of things...

post #10 of 17

That's an interesting finding. My wife has an ipod touch 4th gen which I never tried with the HD650. I might compare it at some stage to the E7, both plugged in the E9 of course. I should add that I was never a big fan of ipod DACs.


Edited by svenski - 5/29/11 at 4:58pm
post #11 of 17

 

Originally Posted by svenski View Post

I think that due to the extended midbass of the HD650 the subbass may be perceived a bit less pronounced. Just a theory.

 


I agree that it's an issue of perception.  This is Sennheiser bass, which is 6 dB above flat at its most pronounced frequency point (100 Hz), which is low enough for kick drums and basses, though not quite grumble.  It's midbass but not high bass.  Though you'll hear of people who brag about hearing below 40 Hz, I'm a bit skeptical of such claims.  I don't know of a lot of instruments - apart from a full-sized pipe organ - that get a lot of action even at 40 Hz.  We've gotten used to demanding subwoofer noise around 50 Hz.  While there's a limit on how much extension you can expect from a tiny wide-range driver (both high and low), the perception of bass you get from a Sennheiser is actually quite decent, if what you're looking for is decent bass extension (at or above flat to just north of 20 Hz).  What the Sennheisers don't give you is ridiculously heavy midbass at 100 Hz.

 

I'm a Grado guy, but I respect the HD600, HD650 and HD800 for what they do so well.  Grado slams 100 Hz, so you feel the kick drums more, but Sennheiser drives lower.  If you like it closer to flat, Sennheiser does a terrific job.  If your HD650 isn't giving you bass, get an amp that can drive it properly.  You're not going to get the fun bass of a Grado, with great slam on the HF2, GS1000 and PS1000, but it's unfair to say the HD650 doesn't deliver bass.

post #12 of 17

Forget what I said.  I just read the last reply.  I stand corrected.

 

post #13 of 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassophile View Post

It's a shame they changed the DAC chip in the new iPod - the old one genuinely sounds warmer with much better bass and less shrill treble and the difference is noticeable - that's from someone who admits not being able to pick up on these types of things...


Were you listening to the same music on both iPods, in the same file format? I'm not denying that the new internal DACs on the iPods may be worse, it's just surprising.
 

 

post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 

yep, same music, same file format, no eq on both.

 

I think that probably all generations of iPods sounded similar until the 6th generation classic because it was at that point they switch over from wolfson dac chips to cirrus dac chips.

post #15 of 17

Edit: Sorry for resurrecting this post, I accidentally posted something here I meant to post on another thread. Mods, feel free to delete this.


Edited by ac500 - 8/19/11 at 9:30pm
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