Alternatives to Sennheiser HD 25 II - Page 6

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Originally Posted by shamrock134 

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Nice post!

 

Have you tried bass boosting the DT1350? Would that make you prefer it to the ES10 for any electronic music rather than just high quality recordings?

 

I use an iPhone 4 and a HM-601 so bass boosting isn't really an option for me. Also I like not to mess up with headphones frequency curves. Not that I object to people using EQs, but in the same way that I don't like dubbed movies I prefer to hear headphones as the designers / engineers created them. Stupid, I know :). Also, I'm not sure that the DT 1350 will ever rival the ES10 bass fattness. The DT1350 punches quite a lot with the HM 601 (less so with the iPhone), but it remains tight and precise. I like the ES10 bass with mainstream dance / electronica as it is more rounded and fatt : that IMHO is beneficial to poor recordings. It gives them some form of grandeur. That's a personal opinion though.

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Originally Posted by Zabardo 

@MayaTlab quite an informative post, how would rate from your memory all those headphones on comfort alone, something that should be also considered for the creator of the topic when deciding what to get.

Unfortunately I'm very tolerant to headphones comfort so I can't really be informative here. However :

- I'm one of the few who disliked the HD-25 due to the type of synthetic pleather used. I found it irritating.

- The ESW9 / ESW10 have terrible pads (although they're made of leather) that compromises their seal and give an uneven weight distribution over the ear.

- The ES10 cup is larger than the others to the point that it gives the impression of being an around the ear design. The pleather used is IMHO very nice and resistant, and the foam inside ensures a good and even distribution of weight. The only complain I've read so far is the driver protection touching the ears. Not in my case though.

- The P5 is extremely comfortable except close to the front of the ear in my case. Their very special design meant that on my head they tended to exerce pressure over that area. Other than that the leather is very good, the foam fantastic, and the clamping perfect. Isolation is no problemo.

- The T50p was very loose out of the box, which made them very comfortable though unpractically loose. This affected the sound badly (they were thin sounding as many early adopters reported). I dramatically bended the headband and they went from very comfortable but impractical and terrible sounding to less comfortable but secure and good sounding.

- The DT 1350 are pretty much like my corrected T50p, though a little more secure due to the split headband and shorter headband.

I don't like rankings but my subjective experience is as follows :

ES10 > DT 1350 > T50p > P5 > HD-25 / ESW9 / ESW10.

It seems that I was unsatisfied with most of them as far as comfort goes, but really, I could have worn them for hours without much trouble (let's say that I'm giving a much greater weight to SQ and build quality / design than comfort when I evaluate headphones).

This is my opinion, Jude seems BTW to have a different one (he prefers the HD-25 to the DT 1350. Most likely he isn't irritated by their pads).

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Originally Posted by MayaTlab 

I used to own the ESW9, ESW10, ES10, P5, SRH840, T50p, and I've practically owned the HD-25 as well (well, technically, they weren't mine but...). I recently received a pair of DT 1350. Sorry, we're gonna talk of the latter quite a lot in that post, but there's a reason for that.

 

All of them are interesting alternatives to the HD-25. The latter seems to be recommended all the time on these forums and I guess there's a reason why : they're cheap, well built and sound at least OK with most genres and good with others.

 

You seem to listen to rock first and then other genres second. 

 

The HD-25 are then a really good choice. Actually they're probably the best of the ones I tried for those genres as long as we're not talking about VERY well recorded rock.

But IMHO they're not very well suited to other genres. The question is therefore how much do you stray away rock and for what genres, and which headphones will give you a stronger performance with those genres than the HD-25 while retaining its qualities with rock.

 

So we can already dump a few of them which just don't work IMHO for rock : ESW9, P5, and to a lesser extent SRH840, and to an even lesser extent the T50p (that one would be dumped IMHO if it weren't for its class-leading speed).

 

The ESW10, ES10, DT 1350 are all good with rock. For dirty rock (Nirvana, punk, etc.), I still prefer the HD-25 to the ESW10 and ES10, but not to the DT 1350. The latter might not have the drive and fun factor of the HD-25, at least unamped (amped, that's another story), but they're much less tiring to listen to and that's a plus point for those genres that often display harsh trebles. I find them equal in that regard. However, for well recorded rock then I'd choose the DT 1350 over the HD-25 most of the time. Reason explained later below.

 

If you want to listen to jazz (Norah Jones it seems), then the ESW10 and DT 1350 are much more better than the HD-25. The latter is just dry and just doesn't convey the sense of ambiance / soul well. The ESW10 has fantastic female vocals, the DT 1350 is more balanced and doesn't do anything wrong. As the recording quality increases, I prefer the DT 1350 over the ESW10.

 

If you want to listen to electro, then the ES10 is IMHO better than the HD-25 because of its more rounded and fatter bass. For more experimental / well recorded electro the DT 1350 is IMHO the best. 

 

For classical music, well it's very simple. The HD-25, ESW10, ES10 are all inferior to the DT 1350 by a light year shot.

 

In fact you seem to see a pattern : the ESW10, ES10, and DT 1350 are usually better at other genres than the HD-25, and as recording quality increases I prefer more and more the DT 1350 to the others in pretty much all genres.

 

That's because IMHO the DT 1350 is actually a slight technical leap above the others. While I think the HD-25, ESW10 and ES10 are technically on par (if you graded their technical abilities such as bass extension or soundstage and averaged them they'd be IMHO in the same category), the DT 1350 is superior to them. It is not a night and day difference and I don't think it is that noticeable with average recordings (75 % of what's around here). But as recording quality increases, I think they pull ahead and show their technical abilities well.

 

So to sum it up :

 

HD-25 is IMHO the best for rock. If you have a large proportion of well-recorded rock, the DT 1350 takes over.

The ESW10 and DT 1350 are better than the HD-25 for jazz and acoustic, while still good for rock. If you listen to a large minority of jazz / acoustic it can be interesting to pick them over the HD-25 (which I really dislike with that genre). As recording quality increases the DT 1350 takes over.

I prefer the ES10 to the HD-25 for electronic music, except for very high quality recordings or experimental / ambient electronica where the DT 1350 is in my opinion a better value.

For classical music it is very easy, the DT 1350 trumps them all by a long shot.

For world music, DT 1350 and ESW10.

 

BUT as you said you don't listen to electronic and only occasionally to jazzy / acoustic stuff, so the HD-25 remains one of your best bets. The DT 1350 will be even better, but only if you have a decent portion of your rock interests well-recorded and accoustic rock and pop constitute a big minority of your listening time.

 

As you can see 25 years after their introduction they're still very competitive :).

Damn Maya, great post you wrote here!

Having experienced all of them except DT1350, I can only completely agree to everything you wrote here about these models (except 1350 offcourse, no experience here).

I received my Z1000's a couple of days ago, but haven't got the chance to really focus on it's sound. First impressions are: dark, analytical and fun at the same time, warm and bassy. (definitely more detailed then ES-10, but significantly another sound sig).

I could add TMA-1, but I've said enough about it already in this topic.

About HD-25, I have the same thing with it's pads, which I also experience with the velours.

And damn you, you're going to make me buy DT1350...

I personally have loved the HD25, but now they're feeling a little bit stale...

Whilst not full sized, I am finding the Sennheiser MM400 to be a much better proposition (even without the BT features) than the HD25 - similar bass, similar treble, but with a boosted (well, 'level') midrange, that makes vocals much more bearable than the thin midded HD25 can do...

The MM400 is my FOTM for an on the road 'can' :)

How's the ZX700 doing for you, Duncan? Does it come a bit close to the Z1000? Size is identical i guess?

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Originally Posted by Proglover 

 

Damn Maya, great post you wrote here!

 

Having experienced all of them except DT1350, I can only completely agree to everything you wrote here about these models (except 1350 offcourse, no experience here).

 

I received my Z1000's a couple of days ago, but haven't got the chance to really focus on it's sound. First impressions are: dark, analytical and fun at the same time, warm and bassy. (definitely more detailed then ES-10, but significantly another sound sig).

 

I could add TMA-1, but I've said enough about it already in this topic.

 

About HD-25, I have the same thing with it's pads, which I also experience with the velours.

 

And damn you, you're going to make me buy DT1350...

 

Seems like I didn't try enough to restrain myself about them in that case. I'd really like them not to be taken for a FOTM kind of thing.

One thing to note that I've notived with those headphones is that driver size and mass seems to be correlated to a certain sense of "weight" to the sound. In pretty much the same way that electrostatic headphones are said to be less substantial than dynamics, I feel the T50p and DT 1350 are more "electrostatic-like" in their sound signature than the others. Their driver is 28mm large, and according to Beyer very thin thanks to the Tesla technology, smaller than the 40mm HD-25, P5, ESW9, ESW10, and even smaller than the giant 53 mm ES10.

It has nothing to do with bass response / quality, warm / cold signature or etc., but just the feeling that weight is being exerced on the ear. So if you own electrostatic headphones IMHO the DT 1350 and T50p get close to their light footed presentation of sound. That's one of the main reasons someone may dislike the Beyers and prefer the others. Of course they also get close to their qualities as well (fast, detailed, and terrific highs). 

This is in addition to proper amplification (one of which benefit is in my opinion to make the sound more "grounded" and "dense"). BTW, I feel most of those cans benefit or even require proper amplification. The P5 does fine without and I feel the ESW9 as well. The ES10 and HD-25 can work without in the sense that I didn't find them overly agressive that way but I feel they become smoother once amplified. The T50p I don't remember. The ESW10 was quite edgy / harsh with my iPhone 4. The DT 1350 is quite lean sounding without amplification. For the latter I think that it almost is mandatory to give it some juice.

I should really try one of those Z1000 one day (not that I'm interested in buying them as they're not that portable - don't fold flat) !

Thanks that rules the DT1350 out for me I think. I don't like EQ'ing either, but I do think the hardware bass boost of the Arrow is very good and doesn't mess up the sound. I'm happy with the ES10 and HD25 and need to stop letting curiousity make me buy cans I don't need!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayaTlab 

I use an iPhone 4 and a HM-601 so bass boosting isn't really an option for me. Also I like not to mess up with headphones frequency curves. Not that I object to people using EQs, but in the same way that I don't like dubbed movies I prefer to hear headphones as the designers / engineers created them. Stupid, I know :). Also, I'm not sure that the DT 1350 will ever rival the ES10 bass fattness. The DT1350 punches quite a lot with the HM 601 (less so with the iPhone), but it remains tight and precise. I like the ES10 bass with mainstream dance / electronica as it is more rounded and fatt : that IMHO is beneficial to poor recordings. It gives them some form of grandeur. That's a personal opinion though.

 

Indeed that what a great reading Maya... And you just made up my mind for the DT1350... We will see what comes out, I liked a few things of the T1 though overall they didn't convince me, but maybe the DT1350 will avoid those caveats.

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Originally Posted by Proglover 

Damn Maya, great post you wrote here!