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{Poll) A consensus on Head-Fi: Does headphone break-in exist? - Page 3

Poll Results: Does headphone break-in exist?

 
  • 60% (129)
    Yes
  • 21% (45)
    No
  • 18% (40)
    I'm not sure
214 Total Votes  
post #31 of 128
Sonic Defender, you're looking at this the wrong way. There are people who spend years researching and futzing with headphone drivers. They are the people who design them.

If a driver changed significantly after X number of hours, it would absolutely be noticed and probably regarded as a design flaw. You don't want a design that changes over time - that's also known as a liability. It's the stuff class action lawsuits are made of. Management and legal would be really, really, really unhappy if there was significant change over time. Lawsuits aside, warranty claims would be a nightmare.

Consider that years of research goes into high-end headphones. The engineers put the prototypes through thousands of hours of tests and measurements. If big variations happened over time, the engineers would fix it, lest management and legal chop off their heads. Oh, the corporate beancounters would be angry, too. Potential warranty claims keep them up at night - they're expensive.

Another way to think about this is that if the engineers found that break-in truly was necessary. Management, legal and beancounters would likely agree that burn-in be performed at the factory so they would ship consistent products. Then marketing would get all moist and excited about how they could put some advertising out about the extensive QC they perform.

The True Believers here think a changing driver is always a good thing. Funny how things only get better and never worse, isn't it? If burn-in was real, then there would be a wrong way to do it and not every driver would improve. Further, a product that changes over time scares the feces out of corporations. No way they'd market something like that.

So don't listen to the palm-readers, mystics and audio spiritualists here. You'll notice that people who spend time building stuff and are interested in how things work generally don't subscribe to magical thinking in audio.

One of my pet theories (purely anecdotal) is that those who are afraid of or unwilling to explore the scientific end of how things work often wrap themselves in the fairytale end of audio. They love the gear and want to demonstrate some level of expertise. But equations totally freak them out and they assume that a soldering iron is some kind of witchcraft.

If you want to run off the demons, get an iron and build a CMoy. Then move onto other projects. But some measuring devices, read a lot and start experimenting. Experience cause and effect on your workbench. See what really happens. Don't take my word on faith or anyone else's. Put these magical, mystical claims to the test yourself.
post #32 of 128
depends on the person. the person that owned nothing but cheap computer speakers and ibuds there whole life and use to it will experience the biggest of the ''burn-in'' factor cause i feel burn in is all psychological and it's your body adapting to the sound presented and it takes time. usually only thing people notice at first is just clarity but notice much more later on and especially after they put their old set on afterwards to test and find there is more to it.

i usually can tell immediate difference when testing headphones on my gear or speakers. if i don't like it the first 5-10 minutes, i will not like it 100-200 hours later. only break-in i believe in is when you re-foam a speaker cause the new foam is still stiff and needs some break-in to become as flexible as intended. sonic break-in i really don't believe in.
post #33 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightanswer@ear View Post

There is no argument that can be made against this case:

Of the last 1,000,000 people to express an observation of a change in sound quality due to break-in with their headphones, how many said the change was for the worst? 

None. There has never been a soul who has said burn-in has lessened the enjoyment of his headphones. 

 

Myself and some others have in fact claimed that very thing.  Some phones do become worse.  Of course when people already make up their minds they are less likely to process counterpoints.  

 

There is plenty of evidence against 'this case' as you call it.  Since there are multiple threads on the topic that have gone ignored by some, it makes no sense to regurgitate the same information for those unwilling to even listen.

 

It's always interesting to see things presented as false choices and dilemmas.  As though break-in negates psycho-acoustics or psycho-acoustics negates break-in or that break in can't be possible if it isn't noticed 100% of the time.  Or that break-in turns an Ultrasone into an AKG or a phone must 'transform' (bit of a straw man as well).  The basic signature never changes, it's more about the nuances.  Of course, sometimes small changes can be perceived to have larger effects or maybe even have a larger disproportionate response. 

 

A bit more three-dimensional thinking would be welcome. 

 

Also, change is the rule, not the exception in the universe.  The question is only a matter of degree and time.  No one will sue God, the Vatican or rain for changing the face of a Granite slab over a thousand years.  Change is inevitable.  Drivers do wear out and so do earpads (the X-factor always missing from the argument).  

 

 

 


Edited by Anaxilus - 7/3/11 at 11:38pm
post #34 of 128

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/break-part-deux

 

Tyll did some real in-depth testing for break-in/burn-in.  I'm betting most differences are earpad and placement from day to day . . . eventually you learn the position that sounds best and start putting headphones on that way.  That would be my guess at least.

post #35 of 128

Interesting point about the earpads that you bring up, thinner earpads might very well equate to an increase in bass that is so frequently reported by headphone users after break in.

post #36 of 128

Yes, but the changes are rather minimal.  Those with very discerning ears can perhaps detect changes more readily and to a greater degree than I can.

post #37 of 128

I am not totally sure, however, I really believe in such thing as mental break in. My DT990's sounded a bit sibilant to me when I first listened to them but I kept them and continued listening, by the end of two weeks I thought they were perfect

 

A few months later, due to moving and being lazy, I didn't use them for a solid month (was using speakers instead)...and the same experience repeated itself...

post #38 of 128

@Uncle Erik: you built your proof on the idea of uniform, even, consistent changes. Really, most changes happen in relatively short time and then they stop or go much slower. Some of them are visible, like worn earpads which do sounds differently comparing to new earpads. Resulting 1-3 mm difference in drivers placements against ears does matter.


Edited by kostalex - 7/4/11 at 11:01am
post #39 of 128

I'm sure someone has already done or could do a double blind test. I'd use 2 new pairs and 1 fully broken-in headphones, setting up random but equal no. of comparisons--new vs new, and new vs burned-in--with the objective of identifying the broken-in pair. So, if break-in is indeed real, the probability of the latter comparisons should be significantly greater than the former (which should be closer to chance).


Edited by Dhimay - 7/4/11 at 10:20am
post #40 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhimay View Post

I'm sure someone has already done or could do a double blind test. I'd use 2 new pairs and 1 fully broken-in headphones, setting up random but equal no. of comparisons--new vs new, and new vs burned-in--with the objective of identifying the broken-in pair. So, if break-in is indeed real, the probability of the latter comparisons should be significantly greater than the former (which should be closer to chance).


No need, tyll already did that and more.  I'm sure there's a link you can click.  The question then boils down to consistency in methodology, sampling error coupled w/ product variation and what is and isn't audible change.  Not only would you need a massive sample of each model but you would need to do the same over probably at least 5 other manufacturers as well.  

 

post #41 of 128

I voted yes, but the difference is very minute.

post #42 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

No need, tyll already did that and more.  I'm sure there's a link you can click.  The question then boils down to consistency in methodology, sampling error coupled w/ product variation and what is and isn't audible change.  Not only would you need a massive sample of each model but you would need to do the same over probably at least 5 other manufacturers as well. 

 

 

Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out.

post #43 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shike View Post

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/break-part-deux

 

Tyll did some real in-depth testing for break-in/burn-in.  I'm betting most differences are earpad and placement from day to day . . . eventually you learn the position that sounds best and start putting headphones on that way.  That would be my guess at least.


Not sure if I'm reading your words correctly, but the headphones were never removed or moved on the head during the course of the experiment. If I had, the differences due to the movement would have overwhelmed the artifacts in the data. 

 

I believe break-in does exists. I think it's very low level changes, but, in the case of the Q701 I believe it is audible (just my belief, no proof ... yet). But these differences are so small that it's fair to say the sound you get from a pair of headphones fresh out of the box is within a few percent of what it will sound like for the long run.  I believe most reported break-in experience, by a long shot, is your head getting used to the sound.

 

post #44 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

Not sure if I'm reading your words correctly, but the headphones were never removed or moved on the head during the course of the experiment. If I had, the differences due to the movement would have overwhelmed the artifacts in the data. 

 

Sorry, let me clarify better.  I know you didn't remove the headphones as it would cause issues.  I'm talking about day to day from average users that claim night and day differences.  I imagine that at the beginning of trying a new set of headphones people are probably fiddly with them not quite sure where's the best to place them, but have an immediate impression.  Over time they fine tune where they're putting it on from day to day.  This could be one possible reason that headphones seem to burn in drastically.  Just a random thought is all ;)

 

Sorry for any confusion caused on my part, shouldn't post late/early in the morning on these topics.

 

Quote:

I believe break-in does exists. I think it's very low level changes, but, in the case of the Q701 I believe it is audible (just my belief, no proof ... yet). But these differences are so small that it's fair to say the sound you get from a pair of headphones fresh out of the box is within a few percent of what it will sound like for the long run.  I believe most reported break-in experience, by a long shot, is your head getting used to the sound.

 

Very true.  I myself won't bet on audibility yet though, there are some small changes over time though that is substantiated.


 

BTW, have you finished your testing with the Q701's or do you have more plans for them?  :)


Edited by Shike - 7/4/11 at 12:55pm
post #45 of 128

I vote Uncle Erik's post #31 be made a stickie.

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