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AKG K3003 High End 3 Way System Headphone - Page 114

post #1696 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumburu View Post

Apparently some people think the bass comes later than the other frequencies due to the dynamic driver, hence the 'new' term (old one was coherency)... latency.

gotcha. haven't noticed this bass latency issue. the k3003 sounds coherent to me.
post #1697 of 1933

I just pop in the K3003 again with Hugo and and still find no coherent issues after owning for so long. I have AB it with other TOTL IEM and still reach the same conclusion. 

 

Can anyone post a link of the song that they have tested that have coherent/latency issues, it would also help if one can indicate the exact timing when the coherency issue is at its greatest so we all can catch it easier. 

post #1698 of 1933
Anyone know if the 3003 (or ie800) cable can be fixed if it comes off the iem
post #1699 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiowood View Post
 

I just pop in the K3003 again with Hugo and and still find no coherent issues after owning for so long. I have AB it with other TOTL IEM and still reach the same conclusion. 

 

Can anyone post a link of the song that they have tested that have coherent/latency issues, it would also help if one can indicate the exact timing when the coherency issue is at its greatest so we all can catch it easier. 

This so called issue mainly referred to the change in timbre or "tonality" in the first place, I think the so called timing issue came after that. Now if the first one is still debatable, the second one is, in my opinion, sort of ridiculous.

 

Is it really the ear capable of picking up timing differences so tiny, when the drivers are just a few centimeters from the eardrum? I have serious doubts about that and firmly believe it's pure imagination.

 

To support this statement I would invite anyone to make the simplest possible test. Just take a kick drum sample and play it on loop. If the theory is true, the bass frequencies will be heard with a certain latency. Supporters of the latency theory, be my guests in picking that latency up. Maybe that will stop all this nonsense (only if they will bother to do the test).

post #1700 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumburu View Post
 

This so called issue mainly referred to the change in timbre or "tonality" in the first place, I think the so called timing issue came after that. Now if the first one is still debatable, the second one is, in my opinion, sort of ridiculous.

 

Is it really the ear capable of picking up timing differences so tiny, when the drivers are just a few centimeters from the eardrum? I have serious doubts about that and firmly believe it's pure imagination.

 

To support this statement I would invite anyone to make the simplest possible test. Just take a kick drum sample and play it on loop. If the theory is true, the bass frequencies will be heard with a certain latency. Supporters of the latency theory, be my guests in picking that latency up. Maybe that will stop all this nonsense (only if they will bother to do the test).



I agree.  Bass have a longer sound wave and decays longer than the higher frequencies.  Thus, while it may technically be true that the bass driver (dynamic) lags in comparison to the two other BAs in the K3003, it is actually just a timing issue.  But all things considered, unless you get the JH Roxanne with the timing and phase manually tweaked, the K3003 is really an awesome pair of universal monitor.  

I am getting a second pair just in case my current pair breaks.  And just for comparison and to satisfy my curiosity, I am also considering to pull the trigger on the 1964Ears V6 Stage CIEM.  I wonder how the K3003 would stack up against the 1964...

post #1701 of 1933
People will hold on true to what they believe or hear. They are entitled to their opinions.

Honestly this latency / coherency issue can only be pointed to (perhaps) the defected unit(s)? From their first batch?

I tried early K3003 batch from a friend, own one and out of curiosity, try a brand new one from another friend. Results? Consistently no coherency / latency issues whatsoever.

I passed mine to others for their opinions, still no complains about this.

Funny that this topic of coherency is played on and on, for the last two years only on this thread. It gets old, really.

IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumburu View Post

This so called issue mainly referred to the change in timbre or "tonality" in the first place, I think the so called timing issue came after that. Now if the first one is still debatable, the second one is, in my opinion, sort of ridiculous.

Is it really the ear capable of picking up timing differences so tiny, when the drivers are just a few centimeters from the eardrum? I have serious doubts about that and firmly believe it's pure imagination.

To support this statement I would invite anyone to make the simplest possible test. Just take a kick drum sample and play it on loop. If the theory is true, the bass frequencies will be heard with a certain latency. Supporters of the latency theory, be my guests in picking that latency up. Maybe that will stop all this nonsense (only if they will bother to do the test).
post #1702 of 1933
AKG K 3003 is not going to win a popularity contest nor get a fair objective perspective even now because:

1. Price.
2. Universal.
3. Harman.
4. Remote control.
5. Non Detachable.
6. Port design.
7. Hybrid.

This is like saying when Beats release their own version K3003, they will be banished and have their own hate thread. They will not have a fair hearing.

Let's just focus and enjoy the sound of this K3003 instead of nitpicking. I also look for the non remote version but it's minor to the enjoyment this wonderful pairs bring.

Again, IMHO
post #1703 of 1933

Chord Hugo & K3003 nice combo

post #1704 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by lescanadiens View Post


Funny that this topic of coherency is played on and on, for the last two years only on this thread. It gets old, really.
 

Being an audiophile forum, it's to be expected people to show up and pretend to hear things that others don't. The next logical problem is that then other people become suggested and simply copy this kind of opinions and make their own, thinking they perceive the things in question. After that, such things are perpetuating out of (the common sense) control.


Edited by tumburu - 4/24/14 at 5:49am
post #1705 of 1933

I'm sorry for being unclear, and late to clear things up!

 

What i meant by latency was the latency of bass decay (after the note hits). You can sense it is not as snappy and fast as the two moving irons. However, this is very minor, and I'd even say unoticable to most. The only reason I could determine this minor issue was by owning the SE846 and IE800 along with the K3003i at the same time. The IE800 is probably the "worst" in bass decay, but also one of the more enjoyable/ natural ones.

 

Over all though, I'd say the K3003i still remains the most technically competent and transparent universal of the three.

post #1706 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post
 

I'm sorry for being unclear, and late to clear things up!

 

What i meant by latency was the latency of bass decay (after the note hits). You can sense it is not as snappy and fast as the two moving irons. However, this is very minor, and I'd even say unoticable to most. The only reason I could determine this minor issue was by owning the SE846 and IE800 along with the K3003i at the same time. The IE800 is probably the "worst" in bass decay, but also one of the more enjoyable/ natural ones.

 

Over all though, I'd say the K3003i still remains the most technically competent and transparent universal of the three.

Are we talking about headphones?

Just curious or is something else decaying!

post #1707 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

 

What i meant by latency was the latency of bass decay (after the note hits). 

 The term latency is usually used in audio to designate an initial delay. The correct term for your observation is, obviously, decay. For instance, TG334 was always mentioned to have that kind of behavior, and that one is an all ba iem, so bass decay has nothing to do with "coherency" between dynamic and ba drivers being put together.

 

However, I don't notice that said decay in bass. To me, compared to full sized headphones, the K3003 is pretty light and tight in the bass area.

 

When you compare it with BA based phones there's something to take into account. I found out that BA drivers, in general, have a hard time in giving an accurate bass response, usually, being light in that area, too fast, somehow unnatural, that being the reason why manufacturers started putting together hybrid IEMs. One can easily see how the BA based IEM market evolves: for achieving an accurate bass response they have to put several drivers to handle the bass (sometimes 4!). That was never a problem with dynamic drivers. OTOH we are very much used to hear dynamic drivers, and I'm referring to speakers and full sized headphones. BA is the new kid on the block and to me and my ears, they have the least natural sound, always sounding in their specific way, a bit compressed. So yes, I think it's a better idea to compare K3003's bass response with that of full sized HPs or the IE800 and the results you already have after comparing them are revealing. There's no 'coherency'/'latency' issue linked to the hybrid nature of these IEMs.

post #1708 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

I'm sorry for being unclear, and late to clear things up!

What i meant by latency was the latency of bass decay (after the note hits). You can sense it is not as snappy and fast as the two moving irons. However, this is very minor, and I'd even say unoticable to most. The only reason I could determine this minor issue was by owning the SE846 and IE800 along with the K3003i at the same time. The IE800 is probably the "worst" in bass decay, but also one of the more enjoyable/ natural ones.

Over all though, I'd say the K3003i still remains the most technically competent and transparent universal of the three.

wow! and i thought my ears were picky.
post #1709 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

Speaking of bass texture, the K3003's dynamic bass driver is excellent, fast and extended, there when needed and out-of-the-way when not. There's a little hint of midbass elevation and warmth, enough for those who find phones like the FI-BA-SS and EX1000 too lean, but it's never obtrusive and stays well clear of the mids. Integration with the dual BA mid/treble drivers is seamless and surprisingly coherent, though those familiar with the characteristics of driver technologies will of course be able to tell that both are being used.

 

I posted this back in January 2012, well before the whole coherency debate started, and to this day tend to believe it is the gist of the matter.

 

 

Just for the record, I love the K3003 and think it's one of the very best IEMs out there. Still, let me provide you with a little challenge (:evil:): listen to this piece with a good pair of headphones (or speakers) and then with the K3003. Don't go hunting for any supposed "latency" or whatnot, just concentrate on how the high notes sound in comparison to the low notes. Then report back with your findings...

 

 

post #1710 of 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diavel View Post
 

Are we talking about headphones?

Just curious or is something else decaying!

Aha, my hearing is great if that's what you're asking :) I'm just being very nit-picky since I was comparing 3 super competitive products.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tumburu View Post
 

 The term latency is usually used in audio to designate an initial delay. The correct term for your observation is, obviously, decay. For instance, TG334 was always mentioned to have that kind of behavior, and that one is an all ba iem, so bass decay has nothing to do with "coherency" between dynamic and ba drivers being put together.

 

However, I don't notice that said decay in bass. To me, compared to full sized headphones, the K3003 is pretty light and tight in the bass area.

 

When you compare it with BA based phones there's something to take into account. I found out that BA drivers, in general, have a hard time in giving an accurate bass response, usually, being light in that area, too fast, somehow unnatural, that being the reason why manufacturers started putting together hybrid IEMs. One can easily see how the BA based IEM market evolves: for achieving an accurate bass response they have to put several drivers to handle the bass (sometimes 4!). That was never a problem with dynamic drivers. OTOH we are very much used to hear dynamic drivers, and I'm referring to speakers and full sized headphones. BA is the new kid on the block and to me and my ears, they have the least natural sound, always sounding in their specific way, a bit compressed. So yes, I think it's a better idea to compare K3003's bass response with that of full sized HPs or the IE800 and the results you already have after comparing them are revealing. There's no 'coherency'/'latency' issue linked to the hybrid nature of these IEMs.

I agree with what you've said; and yes latency wasn't the proper word to use indeed! I agree that dynamic drivers generally tend to do bass better, as it has a more natural and less restrictive response than balanced armatures.

 

AKG made the right choice in configuring their 3 drivers that way, but I will still say for myself that the bass - albeit its character being fast, snappy and tight - isn't audibly as "fast" as it seems. Again, I'm blowing it out of proportion as it's one of the best uiem, and the only factor that lead to this conclusion a while back in my review was solely based on a comparative basis with other high end iem's. :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post


wow! and i thought my ears were picky.

The more you get involved in the hobby, the more picky you get. It's a curse!

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