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AKG K3003 High End 3 Way System Headphone - Page 110

post #1636 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamicircuitry View Post

So would you tell me to avoid the SE846 then? I had all but made up my mind between the two. TBH, I had originally been eyeing the SE 846, but the k3k3 is tempting me greatly for its casual, and attractive appearance.

Not at all! I think it's an excellent phone so far. But unfortunately, as Carl mentions, only your ears can provide you with your own personal truth, all anyone here can do is try to articulate strengths, weaknesses and contrast performance between phones. That will generally provide you with an inkling of what to expect, but I've not yet come across a phone that universally appeals to everyone. It's my opinion that the 846 is likely to be a tad more versatile than the K3K as it is ultimately more forgiving of poor recordings, with that being said, they are VERY different signatures, and from what I've seen thrown around, the K3K being analogous to the HD800 and the SE846, the LCD-2/3
post #1637 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamicircuitry View Post
 

I also am a sucker for detail reproduction though, and I wanted to buy one TOTL and be done with it all. My budget can handle it.

 

I just brought the FX850 up, because you specifically mentioned cello and strings. About half of my listening is to classical, and from my pov you're not done with strings until you've heard the JVCs.

 

And this is from someone who loves his K3003. ;) 

post #1638 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

I just brought the FX850 up, because you specifically mentioned cello and strings. About half of my listening is to classical, and from my pov you're not done with strings until you've heard the JVCs.

 

And this is from someone who loves his K3003. ;) 

 

 

200_s.gif

post #1639 of 3717

I thank you for the suggestion, but as I previously stated, I need an all rounder. My budget permits basically a home set, and an away set. I also have a beater set for exercising and whatnot, but they were a sweet bargain (120$ XBA-3 on sale BNIB from future shop :) ).

The impression I am getting is I should go with the SE846.

post #1640 of 3717
I've tried the se846 a few times, w AK120, iPhone 5 and X3, to me I feel it has too much bass, especially when playing some bass heavy musics. I'd choose K3003 definitely. But it does have its pros w removable cable and better seal. Although the stock cable is just like other Shure IEMs, thick and rigid. Probably you'd change it eventually, which is gonna cost some extra money.
post #1641 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

thanks for the review gnarl. mh1 sounds like a world beater for the price. gotta disagree with you tho about how the k3003 reproduces cymbals. i've not heard another earphone/headphone get the tonality of a cymbal as right as the k3003.

 

Have you heard the ER4S? Just curious. That earphone nails treble tonality imho.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post


For the most part the mh1 can offer a competitive alternative if eq'd. EQ is the key word here. The bass without eq is way overblown and boomy, and it does cloud the midrange if left unto its own. However, it only takes one eq point to fix the boomy bloat.

So without rewriting the comparison, I'll say while I prefer the k3k treble, the mh1 treble is also fantastic, has great tonality and is on the same playing field. I think the k3k mids are a step up and there is a chasm between their bass. I also think the staging, texture and imaging of the k3k is superior.

It's worth noting that the original price of the mh1 is between $80 and $100 if I'm not mistaken. All sales of them now are in oem packaging and can be had as low as $20. But you need to recable them, as the cable is the worst in the history of bad iem cables. So expect another $100 for that. Then you need to EQ. So taking all that in. it's not as simple as saying a $20 iem competes with the big boys but using reductionist thinking you certainly can.

At the end of the day, what matters most to me is the holistic tonality of the iem and here is where the eq'd mh1 truly shines and does compete with the best I've heard.

 

Great points. There are always compromises, and people order their priorities of these compromises differently. It'd be nice to have it all, but for me it's the mids I need the most. They are the most difficult for me to fix with eq. I think that's why I might consider the MH1 to have the slight edge over the K3003 sonically; to my ears the mids of the MH1 are just nail tonality, detail and overall realism. What are your thoughts on closing all vents on the MH1 to reduce bass? To my ears it definitely reduces the needs for eq, although still a few dB above what I consider ideal. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

Just a warning, be careful to not jump to conclusions. This mod doesn't work the same way for all IEMs, as stock tuning and venting vary a lot and have an influence on the outcome. For instance, it works great on the JVC FX850 and KEF M200, but not so much on the Sony SBH-80, which use an updated version of the MH1 earpiece. That's why I told you that I have no idea how it will sound on your ToGo 334.

 

As for the MH1, I've only heard the MW1 (which use the same earpiece) and the SBH-80 (which use the updated version) and both need EQ imo. They do sound great when EQed, but tbh, so do my 5 year old IE8 with proper EQ (a phone that got a lot of bashing for its bass hump).

 

Also, while I don't want to criticize gnarlsagan's comparison, from my pov it focuses primarily on frequency response, which isn't everything that makes or breaks an earphone. To give an example, the K3003 are the best sounding IEMs for low volume listening I've heard to date, while to my ears neither the MW1 nor the SBH-80 are something special in that regard. Everyone has different priorities and I'm perfectly ok with gnarlsagan's take on things, just saying that if your priorities happen to differ from his, you may arrive at entirely different conclusions.

 

I did mention sound stage and tonality, but tbh I'm of the opinion that these attributes stem from FR and distortion metrics. Also I tried some low volume listening after reading your comment earlier

and you are damn right that they excel there. The mids lose some of the stridency and emphasis on "s" and "t" sounds that I hear. Given what I know about your listening (or rather what you've said in the past about your HRTF), I can understand the K3003's mids just sounding plain more correct to your ears than they do mine. I need that extra bump at ~3k and a bit less energy at 6k, a frequency which might offend me a bit more than it offends others. 

 

For the record this whole comparison had me very skeptical of my own conclusions. Even now with the MH1 in my ears, I'm trying to find something I'm missing that might betray the absurdly low price of the sound I'm hearing. I'm still coming up short. Even the boomy bass, what I consider to be the MH1's biggest weakness, is perfectly acceptable on a great number of tracks. After I wrote my comparison, solidifying my thoughts into words, I thought maybe my conclusion was a bit ridiculous, and that maybe I was fooling myself. I try to retain a healthy skepticism of all things, including myself. So I went back to a/b'ing the K3003 and MH1 trying to poke holes in the observations I had made, and ended up at the same conclusions. Just adding this as an addendum for those that are skeptical that such a cheap iem can perform so solidly. I, too, was skeptical, as were some of the guys here who have vouched for the little wonder that is the MH1. It's just a really cool thing for great sound to be so accessible, and something I hope everyone here can appreciate. Enjoying some great tunes right now... :ksc75smile:

post #1642 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post


Not at all! I think it's an excellent phone so far. But unfortunately, as Carl mentions, only your ears can provide you with your own personal truth, all anyone here can do is try to articulate strengths, weaknesses and contrast performance between phones. That will generally provide you with an inkling of what to expect, but I've not yet come across a phone that universally appeals to everyone. It's my opinion that the 846 is likely to be a tad more versatile than the K3K as it is ultimately more forgiving of poor recordings, with that being said, they are VERY different signatures, and from what I've seen thrown around, the K3K being analogous to the HD800 and the SE846, the LCD-2/3

Your last statements are exactly in line with my thoughts about these two iems. Both are very competent in different ways but the more forgiving is usually the easiest to enjoy more often than not. 

 

You can't go wrong with either, as long as you know what you're looking for!

post #1643 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post

But do you really think that they are comparable, that they play in the same league sound wise and that a comparison therefore is called for? I would definitely assume that would be the opinion of gnarlsagan as he did the comparison, but I'd really like to hear your personal opinion. After all, why would anyone buy the K3K when for 1.6% of the cost of the K3K and james444’s “front venting mod” we can get an equally well sounding or even better sounding IEM in the Sony MH1? eek.gif  

For the most part the mh1 can offer a competitive alternative if eq'd. EQ is the key word here. The bass without eq is way overblown and boomy, and it does cloud the midrange if left unto its own. However, it only takes one eq point to fix the boomy bloat.

So without rewriting the comparison, I'll say while I prefer the k3k treble, the mh1 treble is also fantastic, has great tonality and is on the same playing field. I think the k3k mids are a step up and there is a chasm between their bass. I also think the staging, texture and imaging of the k3k is superior.

It's worth noting that the original price of the mh1 is between $80 and $100 if I'm not mistaken. All sales of them now are in oem packaging and can be had as low as $20. But you need to recable them, as the cable is the worst in the history of bad iem cables. So expect another $100 for that. Then you need to EQ. So taking all that in. it's not as simple as saying a $20 iem competes with the big boys but using reductionist thinking you certainly can.

At the end of the day, what matters most to me is the holistic tonality of the iem and here is where the eq'd mh1 truly shines and does compete with the best I've heard.

I say; shotgunshane for Secretary-General of Head-Fi! ;)

post #1644 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post
 

But do you really think that they are comparable, that they play in the same league sound wise and that a comparison therefore is called for? I would definitely assume that would be the opinion of gnarlsagan as he did the comparison, but I'd really like to hear your personal opinion. After all, why would anyone buy the K3K when for 1.6% of the cost of the K3K and james444’s “front venting mod” we can get an equally well sounding or even better sounding IEM in the Sony MH1? :eek: 

 

Just a warning, be careful to not jump to conclusions. This mod doesn't work the same way for all IEMs, as stock tuning and venting vary a lot and have an influence on the outcome. For instance, it works great on the JVC FX850 and KEF M200, but not so much on the Sony SBH-80, which use an updated version of the MH1 earpiece. That's why I told you that I have no idea how it will sound on your ToGo 334.

 

As for the MH1, I've only heard the MW1 (which use the same earpiece) and the SBH-80 (which use the updated version) and both need EQ imo. They do sound great when EQed, but tbh, so do my 5 year old IE8 with proper EQ (a phone that got a lot of bashing for its bass hump).

 

Also, while I don't want to criticize gnarlsagan's comparison, from my pov it focuses primarily on frequency response, which isn't everything that makes or breaks an earphone. To give an example, the K3003 are the best sounding IEMs for low volume listening I've heard to date, while to my ears neither the MW1 nor the SBH-80 are something special in that regard. Everyone has different priorities and I'm perfectly ok with gnarlsagan's take on things, just saying that if your priorities happen to differ from his, you may arrive at entirely different conclusions.

Thanks for the warning james444 and no worries, I haven’t jumped to any conclusions, although I apologise for referring to your mod in this context which was a bit nonchalant but certainly not intended to be. I could just as well have written “and a bit of EQ bass” instead of “and james444’s ‘front venting mod’” in an attempt to make my question as clear as possible. The only reason I choose to refer to your mod was that I saw what seemed to be an opportunity to spread the word about it which I’m sure many - just like I did - would find very interesting and perhaps also very useful.

For the record I just want to make clear that I wasn’t criticising and can’t criticise the comparison as I have never heard the MH1. It was an open and honest question about whether shotgunshane felt the Sony MH1 was really up there with the AKG K3003 and so called for a comparison in particular. From what should be obvious from my previous post I can’t honestly say I found his answer to be very conclusive. :confused_face:

post #1645 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post

I say; shotgunshane for Secretary-General of Head-Fi! wink.gif

and James 444 as the european ambassador of headfi for doing that mod. I need to hear the mh1, er4s and fx850, esp the 20 bucks mh1...what in the world is going on with the 20 bucks vs one thousand three hundred and ninety - nine and cents zero united states dollar iem..this is just crazy guys..i seriously need to hear it..
post #1646 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post

Thanks for the warning james444 and no worries, I haven’t jumped to any conclusions, although I apologise for referring to your mod in this context which was a bit nonchalant but certainly not intended to be. I could just as well have written “and a bit of EQ bass” instead of “and james444’s ‘front venting mod’” in an attempt to make my question as clear as possible. The only reason I choose to refer to your mod was that I saw what seemed to be an opportunity to spread the word about it which I’m sure many - just like I did - would find very interesting and perhaps also very useful.


For the record I just want to make clear that I wasn’t criticising and can’t criticise the comparison as I have never heard the MH1. It was an open and honest question about whether shotgunshane felt the Sony MH1 was really up there with the AKG K3003 and so called for a comparison in particular. From what should be obvious from my previous post I can’t honestly say I found his answer to be very conclusive. confused_face.gif

Great damage control ..Ok ..Ok I forgive u even though I am not James 444 ;-)
post #1647 of 3717

Sigh, found the IE800 on sale, so in Canadian Im looking at an interesting price breakdown:

 

IE800, for $900.

SE846, for $1000

K3003, for $1300

 

I'm almost tempted to just get the IE800 for the price.

post #1648 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamicircuitry View Post
 

Sigh, found the IE800 on sale, so in Canadian Im looking at an interesting price breakdown:

 

IE800, for $900.

SE846, for $1000

K3003, for $1300

 

I'm almost tempted to just get the IE800 for the price.

 

SE846 can be found at authorized dealers anywhere from $800 to $900.  Check the dedicated threads for mention of the sellers.  And Razordogaudio, AKG authorized dealer, will usually supply you with a coupon to save a good amount on the K3003, you just have to email him.

post #1649 of 3717

I think you missed the part where I'm Canadian. 

post #1650 of 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiowood View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post

Thanks for the warning james444 and no worries, I haven’t jumped to any conclusions, although I apologise for referring to your mod in this context which was a bit nonchalant but certainly not intended to be. I could just as well have written “and a bit of EQ bass” instead of “and james444’s ‘front venting mod’” in an attempt to make my question as clear as possible. The only reason I choose to refer to your mod was that I saw what seemed to be an opportunity to spread the word about it which I’m sure many - just like I did - would find very interesting and perhaps also very useful.


For the record I just want to make clear that I wasn’t criticising and can’t criticise the comparison as I have never heard the MH1. It was an open and honest question about whether shotgunshane felt the Sony MH1 was really up there with the AKG K3003 and so called for a comparison in particular. From what should be obvious from my previous post I can’t honestly say I found his answer to be very conclusive. confused_face.gif

Great damage control ..Ok ..Ok I forgive u even though I am not James 444 ;-)

Thanks!

 

XXXOOO ;)

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