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FLAC (External HD)>???>DAC>WA6 SE....Need Music Server help

post #1 of 13
5/16/11 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 

I recently purchased an Emotiva ERC-2 CDP that I primarily use as the source in my headphone rig (ERC-2>Woo Audio WA6 SE>Grado RS1i or Sennheiser HD 650).

 

So here’s where I need help: I have almost 2 TB of music files that are housed on External Hard Drives and are primarily in FLAC (with the rest being in SHN) codec, but I don’t know how to incorporate those into my headphone set up (the good news is that the headphone amp has 2 source inputs).

 

Do I have to buy a computer and load it with Foobar2000 (my media player of choice) and connect via USB? Or are there stand alone music server-only interfaces on the market I could connect to my hard drives? (Budget being $1,200 or less...the Emotiva XDA-1 DAC I'm looking at is $349.)

 

(I’ve heard that computers are “noisy” and generally bad as a music source…does a stand alone DAC solve those problems or do I have to upgrade sound cards, etc., to get the best sound.)

 

In addition to USB, the DAC I'm looking at has AES/EBU and Toslink inputs (though I have never heard of AES/EBU or Toslink.) Are these options better than USB?

 

I apologize for my ignorance when it comes to all of this, but I’ve been researching these topics and there doesn’t seem to be consensus. So I figured I'd see what you guys would do?

 

 

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post #2 of 13
5/16/11 at 1:55pm
From the best of my knowledge, you'll need a computer with a media player to decode the music files. If you don't already have one ( O.O ), just get yourself a cheap little netbook. Foobar doesn't require a powerful machine to run smoothly. Then yes, plug in the external HDD in via USB. Some may argue that toslink sounds better but I'm of the mind, it's all snake oil.
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post #3 of 13
5/17/11 at 6:06am
Thread Starter 

That's the scenario I'll probably end up going with. I have a desktop in my home office, but would have to buy a laptop of some sort for my listening room.

 

I understand that there's a good chance that the difference in sound quality between USB and other options (like Toslink) are slight at best, so I'm comfortable sticking with USB.

 

Should I not have any concern about the signal going through the stock computer?

 

Is the suggestion I've read people make that computers are "noisy" and "bad" and so on for music signals just not really true? Or is it like a lot of audiophile claims...it's not that they're "not true" or "wrong", but just represent very subtle (if not nearly unnoticeable) differences in SQ, but differences nonetheless?

 

I can tell you one thing though, there is most certainly a major difference between my RS1s and my HD 650s!

 

 

 

 

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post #4 of 13
5/17/11 at 6:32am

The part about computers being noisy, I think comes from when people use the headphone jack. Using the USB gets rid of all the "noise" in a laptop going through your audio system.

 

Oh yeah.. Senn's and Grado's are a very different animal from one another, so I've read. Word has it that those Grado's are awesome for rock music though..

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post #5 of 13
5/17/11 at 2:01pm
Thread Starter 

Okay, so the PCM signal would pass from the hard drive through the computer and into the stand alone DAC (by-passing the computer's on board sound card, etc.)...is that correct?

 

(As for the RS1s...they are INCREDIBLE with Rock. But the HD 650s are what I reach for when it comes to Classical and, usually, Jazz.) smily_headphones1.gif

 

 

 

 

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post #6 of 13
5/17/11 at 7:41pm

Do you have a wireless network in the house (<$100)?  If yes, get a Logitech Squeezebox Touch (~300).  Hook your external drives with the music on them into your office computer (the drives will be two different music libraries unfortunately).

 

Then make the drives visible on your network as Windows shares (assuming a windows desktop; there are other ways for OSX or Linux).  Download some free server software from Logitech for the desktop.  Connect the Squeezebox, identify the library you want, and go.  Also has a lot of internet radio.

 

No noise in the listening room.  Easy user interface.

 

- Ed

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post #7 of 13
5/17/11 at 8:04pm

Been there, done that...

 

I tried an iPod, Sansa Fuze and Clip, etc.  I rockboxed them and tried them with the regular software. I tried line-outs as well as feeding the amp from the headphone jacks.  Nothing portable really does justice to FLAC files than a PC.  (the ipod and Sansa had problems with 24/192 files)

 

You really need a PC or laptop with digital audio out (TOS-link, or Coax) if you want to play 24/192 FLAC files.


Get a nice DAC and a nice amp and it's musical heaven. (I am using Sennheiser 598s and Grado 325is).

 

Laptops are a challenge as most don't have digital audio outs (except Macs and a select few PCs).

 

USB will limit your output to 96/24.

 

A desktop is your best bet!

 

 

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post #8 of 13
5/18/11 at 12:25am

^^  toslink cant transport 24/192 most of the time.

usb can transport 24/192.

 

laptop/desktop (USB)  --->  DAC ---> AMP

 

or

 

laptop/desktop ( COAX ) ---> DAC ---> AMP

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post #9 of 13
5/18/11 at 6:04am
Thread Starter 

I don't have a wireless network right now, but it would be a nice option if I end up with a laptop just for general convenience if nothing else.

 

Though I'd love to buy a Mac for the house since my wife's a teacher and she has nothing but Mac at school, I would be using a laptop PC since iTunes doesn't play well with FLAC (at least without going through a conversion/re-tagging process I'd rather avoid).

 

I do have quite a few 24-bit files I'd like to be able to play, so it sounds like finding a laptop with Coax outputs would be worth looking into. But it seems like there's a few different ideas about whether or not Coax is necessary for 24/192...can someone clarify?

 

Also, can you guys confirm that my chain (RCA interconnects and AC power plugs are Emotiva X-series) of External Hard Drive>Laptop (via USB)>DAC (via USB or Coax?)>WA6 SE>RS1i is the best setup in terms of the signal by-passing the computer's onboard audio components, etc.?

 

Is there a weak link in that chain that anyone would change? (Other than the amp and 'phones...too late there wink.gif)

 

Thanks!

 

 

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post #10 of 13
5/18/11 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken Arrow View Post

^^  toslink cant transport 24/192 most of the time.

usb can transport 24/192.



I did not know this.. 


Edited by J.Pocalypse - 5/18/11 at 6:28am
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post #11 of 13
5/18/11 at 7:48am

 

A lot of people think USB audio is limited to 16 bits / 48 kHz max.
A lot of (cheap and sometimes not so cheap) USB DACs are indeed limited to this resolution.

This is because the manufacturer decided to use a simple and cheap of the shelf hardware solution.

Another common misunderstanding is the specification of the bus (USB 1,2 or 3) and the USB audio standard (1 or 2).

 

USB Audio Class 1 standard (1998)

This standard allows for 24 bits / 96 kHz max.
The standard itself doesn't impose any limitation on sample rate.
Class 1 is tied to USB 1 Full Speed = 12 MHz


Every millisecond a package is send.
Maximum package size is 1024 bytes.

2 channel * 24 bit * 96000 Hz sample rate= 4608000 bits/s or 576 Byte/ms
This fits in the 1024 byte limit.
Any higher sample rate e.g. 172 kHz needs 1056 bytes so in excess of the maximum package size.

 

All operating systems (Win, OSX, and Linux) support USB Audio Class 1 natively.
This means you don’t need to install drivers, it is plug&play.
All support 2 channel audio with 24 bit words and 96 kHz sample rate

 

USB Audio Class 2 standard (2009)

It is downwards compatible with class 1.
USB Audio Class 2 additionally supports 24 and 32 bit and all common sample rates.
Class 2 uses High Speed (480 MHz). This requires USB 2 or 3.
As the data rate of High Speed is 40 X Full speed, recording a 60 channel using 24 bits at 96 kHz (132 Mbit/s) is not a problem.

 

Drivers

From mid-2010 on USB audio class 2 drivers are available in OSX 10.6.4 and Linux.
Both support sample rates up to 384 kHz.
It is unclear if Microsoft is going to support USB Audio 2.
You need a third party USB class 2 driver on Windows.

 


Edited by Roseval - 5/18/11 at 7:50am
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post #12 of 13
5/19/11 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Pocalypse View Post

From the best of my knowledge, you'll need a computer with a media player to decode the music files. If you don't already have one ( O.O ), just get yourself a cheap little netbook. Foobar doesn't require a powerful machine to run smoothly. Then yes, plug in the external HDD in via USB. Some may argue that toslink sounds better but I'm of the mind, it's all snake oil.


I stand corrected..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Va48TXGrI

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post #13 of 13
5/19/11 at 7:26am

Pretty scattered advice thus far.  I'll try to add something here.

 

The Squeezebox Touch can actually manage a group of files via USB without a computer interface.  Unfortunately that is practically limited to a smaller group than your 2TB drive which would be a nightmare to try to manage with a Touch directly (it may get bogged down and not work at all).  It is better to use a computer interface.  The Touch does work wireless and does a fine job that way, but SQ is audibly superior by creating a hard-wired network to the computer via an ethernet cable>Touch>via SPDIF to DAC (for best results)>amp.  Same idea as wireless in that you are streaming music over the network, but the network is via a cable.  I'd highly recommend the touch as a very easy and effective and economical interface.  It is limited to 24/96 though. The Touch has a fairly decent internal DAC but outboard solutions will likely best it.  That is not the case with the DAC in the Squeezebox Transporter, which is another fine option, better yet the Modwright version of that unit is excellent in all respects.  Using the Squeezebox interface on a Mac you can stream FLAC without a hiccup and entirely bypass iTunes.  The SB interface is a bit more clunky and less graphic than iTunes but perfectly functional.  If you get a USB capable DAC I would pay particular attention to the USB interface implementation of the design of that DAC as there are both very good versions, but probably more very poor and cheaply implemented solutions that are easily bettered by their SPDIF alternative connection.  So my solution for excellent results would be hard drive>computer>ethernet cable to SB Touch>SPDIF RCA cable to DAC>headphone amp>headphones>ears>brain>heart.  Another good resource is the Computer Audiophile website.

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