Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Ray Samuels "Dark Star" Initial Impressions - Chicago MiniMeet May14, 2011
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Ray Samuels "Dark Star" Initial Impressions - Chicago MiniMeet May14, 2011

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 

DSC_2043.jpg

 

Since the original thread is now locked, it seems only fitting that the very first picture to be posted should be only indirectly related to the new Ray Samuels Audio "Dark Star" prototype.  Courtesy of Audio Addict, it was the perfect housewarming gift to commemorate the event and to honor our host for his and his family's hospitality.  Thanks again, Steve, and special thanks to Ray as well as everyone who made it to the event.  My personal appreciation goes out to Fang Bian of Head-Direct, who managed to arrange to deliver a pair of HE-500 just in time for the event.  These headphones, along with the HE-6 were especially important for our initial impressions throughout the event as these represent some of the best benchmark cans on the market today for the potential future owners of this particular amp.

 

DSC_2019.jpg

 

The Dark Star "Prototype"

 

Is not really a prototype anymore.  Based on conversations with Ray, it is my understanding that the device is essentially a finished product, without the silk-screening of logos, and all the necessary labels.  The basic design follows the later RSA headphone amplifiers such as the Apache, but the case features similar solid aluminum extrusions CNC'd with the utmost precision as the A-10 Thunderbolt, held in place confidently by the obligatory RSA metal spikes.  The unique gold/black scheme has been deemed attractive by most attendees, others deemed it to be needing some getting used to, especially from the sides.  The other color choice will be the RSA Silver or Clear color scheme, a better match with milled aluminum alloy components such as those manufactured by Boulder or ESOTERIC.  We have not had the chance to see the internals during the event, but it was pretty clear that no expense was spared during the design and construction in terms of components, materials and tuning.

 

DSC_2025.jpg

 

I have specifically mentioned the Apache, because it seemed to me as an essential baseline based on similarities of function and base design, in terms of balanced solid state headphone amplifier function.  It is important to note, however, that unlike the Apache, the Dark Star has no pre-amp functionality.  It has been designed to do one thing and one thing only:  to drive the hardest to drive dynamic and orthodynamic headphones with authority, and might I add, without breaking a sweat.

 

The keyword here is clean, raw power.  Having extra power headroom to spare is always a good thing assuming you use that power for good and not evil.  By evil, you should always resist the urge to plug in your IEMs into this beast just to hear how they fare.  It will be a short-lived, but rather spectacular experience.  For the same reason, you should never ever bring your R10s or Qualias closer than 10Ft to any Dark Star, just to be on the safe side.  

 

Ask any HE-6 owner and they will tell you this headphone is like a black hole in terms of its thirst for power.  How much power are we talking about?  Around 160 Watts of combined power output in balanced mode.  There was no spec sheet published for the event, so I'm not sure what Class and what RMS figures are associated with this rating.   However one attendee had a chance to experience the full power of the Death Star...I mean Dark Star by accident when switching sources.  The HE-6s sucked all of that power in and didn't miss a beat, however, the attendee was out of the critical listening business for a while.  My own comfortable listening level on high-gain setting was around 10-11 o'clock level for the HE-6s

 

Valid questions were raised about the lack of speaker terminals.  Yes, there are a lot of integrated amps out there with far less power per channel.  Essentially, the answer was to keep things simple; marketing it as a dual-purpose amp would have required additional design, logistics and marketing concerns to be accommodated and addressed and would have distracted from the core mission of why the amp was designed and built.  The Alps stepped attenuator proved extremely precise--no sign of in-between output signal drops between steps-- and the On-Off switch equipped PSU--another change from the Apache--is built around a Plytron toroidal transformer.

 

DSC_2035.jpg

 

The amps mission is to address a niche market.  It will probably not be a volume seller, but a halo product for RSA.  Although there is no price set yet, since the cost of the casing is not yet known, early estimates indicate a price premium over the Apache's $3K price tag, based on component cost alone, not even factoring in R&D and labor.  I'll let others chime in who attended the meet and had a chance to audition the amp, but from my perspective, if you love the new generation of HiFiMAN and Audez'e orthos and want the best, full-sized, solid-state amp money can buy, you do not really have an alternative to the Dark Star at this point in terms of combined capabilities of power, SQ and, yes, all things considered, value.

 

Prior to the official meet, I had a chance to evaluate the Dark Star on the workbench of Ray Samuels.  The amp was already fully assembled as shown in the photos.  The difference had been the source: Ray's Meridian 508.24.  We have tried two different XLR analog interconnects: ALO Audio RW8 Ag-Cu Silver Copper XLR IC and Whiplash Audio TWag Elite Reference XLR IC V2.  Initial impressions at that time revealed the amp to have an undetectable noise floor and an incredibly expansive and detailed soundstage and presentation qualities with both the HE-6 and HE-500 planars, both of them sporting the HE-6 stock balanced XLR4 cable.  Unfortunately, we didn't have an LCD2 to test with the Dark Star there or at the event.

 

What was our preference between the two interconnects?  With this relatively modest source, the ALO Audio RW8 Ag-Cu Silver Copper XLR ICs was clearly superior due to lower mids and sub-bass extensions and texture that seemed to be barely present when the Whiplash cable was connected.

 

During the event, the Dark Star has been connected to Ray's signature Boulder 1021 CD-player.  Interestingly, the interconnect situation had completely reversed itself; the Whiplash XLR IC had a far better synergy with this source across the entire audible range.  Very detailed, yet powerful bass and crystal clear upper registers without a hint of any sibilance with most reference recordings.

 

DSC_2028.jpg

 

We had access to the new Moon Audio Silver Dragon HE-6 replacement cable as well as Audio Addicts very own 8Ft TWag v1 HE-6 replacement cable in addition to the stock HE-6 cables.  The HE-500s stock Canare TRS-terminated stock cable was not evaluated.  The welcome addition of an XLR4 balanced output--a first of any RSA amp to my knowledge--made connecting both a HE-6 and HE-500 a breeze due to the TWag and Silver Dragon cables both being dual-XLR3 terminated.

 

The Dark Star's two-way Gain setting switch emphasizes the fact that low-impedance headphones need not apply here.  Its 11dB Low and 22dB High setting corresponds nicely with the HE-500s and HE-6s sweet spot, respectively.

 

The HE-6

 

The HE-6 is deemed by most as an extremely detailed and satisfying reference headphone that is a bit bright on the high end.  I did not observe this when paired with the Dark Star/Boulder combo, even with the TWag balanced IC in between.  In fact, my preference was the stock OCC single crystal copper cable in terms of proper sonic balance.  However, I know of at least one attendee who preferred pairing the Silver Dragon's extended treble range with the HE-6 vs. the stock cable.  Yet more evidence that we all the same things differently.

 

The HE-500

 

As a relative newcomer, the HE-500 has enjoyed an almost universal popularity among the attendees with and even without pairing to the Dark Star.  Some--including myself--actually enjoyed the HE-500s seductive midrange on selected jazz and orchestral tracks over its bigger brother.  Yes, the HE-6 is a more detailed, more sophisticated and ultimately more revealing phone especially out of such a high-end source.  Perhaps it was the combination of the TWag V2 pure silver interconnect->Dark Star->OCC crystal headphone cable combo, but the HE-500s musicality often drawn me to them vs. the HE-6.  Carl Orff's Carmina Burana (thanks Stacy) live recording of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra's performance made that clear.  Perhaps is because the HE-500 sacrifices very little to my ears of the strengths the HE-6 finds so many fans these days, yet it offers that elusive quality that is the deciding factor which of them may get more head time.  Then again, there is nothing wrong with having the best of both worlds.  That is especially true for those lucky enough to eventually own one of the Dark Stars to make both of these monsters shine, along with your AKG K1000s, 600Ohm Beyers and the like.

 

DSC_2048.jpg

 

In Closing

 

 

The new amp is impressive to say the least.  Gobs of power, elegant design and amazing SQ out of a variety of mid-to-high-end sources and interconnects tested during the Meet.  One thing is for sure...it will come with a glowing red banner warning label any owner or user should heed.  This isn't designed for low-impedance headphones or IEMs in mind, the way the Apache could be used.  Careless attempts to pair one of these headhphones to this amp will result in a very short period of enjoyment before the drivers flame out!  Remember, you've read it here first...:-)

 

I'm trying to think very hard what nits could I pick as to at least making an attempt to be objective.  In the past several months I've been downsizing my dynamic headphone collection in order to raise funds for source and interconnect upgrades in an effort to arrive to an optimized--at least within my financial means--primarily electrostatic setup that would satisfy my critical listening needs for a long time to come.  Perhaps just a coincidence that a solid state amp should appear on the market that once again revives the rocker in me--and believe me there is a reason why I didn't bring up hair metal.  Ever since Bill Shatner cornered the market on quality toupes and declared victory, it's Classic Rock for me.  And the Dark Star with these new orthos may as well be the tools to help me relive my memories of 20 years ago in conjunction with the new line of 300 or so Japanese SHM-CD releases.

 

For the record, I requested my Dark Star to be built in Silver.  Is this heresy at least on some level considering the design goals of the aircraft it's named after?  Maybe, but it won't be "dark" sounding for me.  The biggest drawback for some will be the price--whatever it ends up being--but then again, purchase decisions involving RSA products have never been about the price tag alone.  For me it represents a natural progression of the trend the SR71B brought to the portable market.  Power wherever and whenever you need it, preferably without the need to involve banana plugs hanging off of pigtails.  This value statement will no doubt resonate with an audience who need this level of performance from a relatively compact, desktop form factor with native XLR and RCA analog input and outputs without the use of Protector adapters.  However, clean power, quality--preferably balanced--interconnects and more than anything else, a reference quality source will be highly recommended for maximum enjoyment.  The rather drastic way the amp's signature changed to reveal source and interconnect deficiencies represents a convincing enough proof point and a true sign of a reference-grade component in my book.

 

Despite the best effort of United Airlines, this has been a very good weekend for me and I am very excited to experience my very own Dark Star--again, pricing and commercial availability TBA--sometime in the Summer of 2011.

 

DSC_2040.jpg

 

 

 


Edited by warp08 - 5/15/11 at 5:32pm
post #2 of 56

Sure look forward to reading the impressions and seeing a couple of pics.

post #3 of 56

Looks impressive.

post #4 of 56

Great write up and conveying of your impressions. I look forward to reading more. 

post #5 of 56

Thanks for the impressions. It looks very good already. Looking forward to se the final result.

post #6 of 56

Wait... I am confused. Was this meant to be your impressions of a couple of interconnects or of a new amp?

 

Also, why the heck would anyone need 160WPC for headphone use? Really?

post #7 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoney View Post

Wait... I am confused. Was this meant to be your impressions of a couple of interconnects or of a new amp?

 

Also, why the heck would anyone need 160WPC for headphone use? Really?


Both, actually.  And it's not 160 WPC, but combined.  It was designed specifically for orthos in mind, which are currently driven best out of speaker amps.  Also, interconnects on the high end play an increasingly important role, so it is very important to state the particular configuration, as it is done for any professional reviews for the same reason.

 

post #8 of 56

Sounds absolutely stunning.  I wonder if Ray might consider offering speaker terminals as a possible output for those of us who want to push more than just headphones with this beast.  80 watts a side is no joke...you can easily push relatively efficient towers with that, to say nothing of midfield monitors.  I certainly know what's next on my studio's wishlist!

post #9 of 56
Thread Starter 

Dev, the answer to that was "no," even though as you correctly state, the amp has more than enough power to support speakers.  Ray has designed this to be the most powerful dedicated headphone amp ever.  You can, however, drive two pairs of HE-6s in full volume on high gain placed on headphone stands on each side of the amp simultaneously from the left XLR4 and the right dual-XLR3 balanced outputs.  The will be loud enough to act as midfield monitors in a small studio....:-)

post #10 of 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev Avidon View Post

Sounds absolutely stunning.  I wonder if Ray might consider offering speaker terminals as a possible output for those of us who want to push more than just headphones with this beast.  80 watts a side is no joke...you can easily push relatively efficient towers with that, to say nothing of midfield monitors.  I certainly know what's next on my studio's wishlist!

 

It sounds like it's not capable of driving <= 8 Ohm loads, regardless of how much power it can push into (relatively) high-impedance headphones. It's not possible to optimize a single amp, both in sound quality and power, over such a huge range of target loads as 8-120 ohms (or more).

 

post #11 of 56

Statements like this:
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post

You can drive two pairs of HE-6s at full volume placed on headphone stands on each side of the amp simultaneously... the[y] will be loud enough to act as midfield monitors in a small studio....:-)

 

and this: "You can literary make your HE-6s sound like a speaker from a distant of 12 feet or more." (taken from the RSA website) scare me. 

 

So what if you can drive the HE-6 to 120+db? You'll kill your hearing awfully fast that way. Not to mention ruining your headphones. I very much doubt that the HE-6s were designed to be used in that manner for sustained periods. I guess I just don't understand the philosophy behind the design of this amp. Perhaps it is designed for some future headphone that is many times more difficult to drive than a HE-6? It would make much more sense if it had speaker terminals.

 

This amp may have been designed to drive even the most difficult Orthos, but every production model Ortho I've ever heard didn't need anywhere near 160W of power. IIRC, even the 6W Shiit Lyr can drive the HE-6s well beyond comfortable listening levels. The wattage difference between the 6W Lyr and the 160W "Dark Star" seemingly implies that the "Dark Star" can get about 12-15db louder than the Lyr. Man, that is freakin' loud!

 

As these impressions seem to have come from hearing the "Dark Star" at a meet, I wonder if anyone was able to conduct any direct A/B tests with the "Dark Star" against the other amps present. I know I speak for others when I say that direct comparisons of amps with otherwise identical signal chains are often incredibly helpful for prospective customers.


Edited by TMoney - 5/16/11 at 3:36pm
post #12 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoney View Post

Statements like this:
 

 

and this: "You can literary make your HE-6s sound like a speaker from a distant of 12 feet or more." (taken from the RSA website) scare me. 

 

So what if you can drive the HE-6 to 120+db? You'll kill your hearing awfully fast that way. Not to mention ruining your headphones. I very much doubt that the HE-6s were designed to be used in that manner for sustained periods. I guess I just don't understand the philosophy behind the design of this amp. Perhaps it is designed for some future headphone that is many times more difficult to drive than a HE-6? It would make much more sense if it had speaker terminals.

 

This amp may have been designed to drive even the most difficult Orthos, but every production model Ortho I've ever heard didn't need anywhere near 160W of power. IIRC, even the 6W Shiit Lyr can drive the HE-6s well beyond comfortable listening levels. The wattage difference between the 6W Lyr and the 160W "Dark Star" seemingly implies that the "Dark Star" can get about 12-15db louder than the Lyr. Man, that is freakin' loud!

 

As these impressions seem to have come from hearing the "Dark Star" at a meet, I wonder if anyone was able to conduct any direct A/B tests with the "Dark Star" against the other amps present. I know I speak for others when I say that direct comparisons of amps with otherwise identical signal chains are often incredibly helpful for prospective customers.


I agree with you.  Most people will never need to utilize the full power of this amp.  An SR71B does a fine job driving the HE-6 and especially the HE-500.  But, it's not just about being loud.  I have not auditioned the Lyr, so I cannot offer any meaningful and first-hand impressions.  In terms of the setup, the environment just wasn't there to evaluate it in an A/B session.

 

In plain terms, amps operate with the lowest THD below a 50% power output or less.  This is easily accomplished with the Dark Star and the HE-6 while on the SR71B, for example, it needs to be set to about 75% output for me to achieve comfortable listening levels.  On the Dark Star it was around 25-30%, so you can imagine the clarity, detail the amp can deliver with that much extra headroom available.

 

post #13 of 56
Absolutely agree with the headroom the extra power gives the 6s. Them and the K1k are about the only headphones that can use that power but it sure sounds good.
post #14 of 56

Sorry for my ingnorance, is it designed only for orthos? in other words for he6? For others like he500s and lcd2s are not too hard to drive. Also,when it will be officially realeased?

post #15 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdhfdy View Post

Sorry for my ingnorance, is it designed only for orthos? in other words for he6? For others like he500s and lcd2s are not too hard to drive. Also,when it will be officially released?

 

No, it is designed to support all dynamic headphones, any considered sensitive will be at risk being accidentally overdriven.  The HE-500s shine with this amp.  We didn't have a set of LCD-2s to test on hand during the meet, however, if you read some of the findings by the Headphonista reviewers at http://www.headphonista.com/audeze-lcd-2/ regarding the comments of the ups and downs of pairing the LCD-2 with various amps, you have exactly the same scenario with the Dark Star.

 

In other words just because you have an amp that seems to drive your existing mid- to high-impedance headphones, the Dark Star's steep power curve can positively influence the sound signature of the headphones quite noticeably.  But it isn't tuned to accommodate sensitive, 40-50 Ohm cans or IEMs, nor is it wise to tempt fate to test those unless you intend to smoke them after lunch...:-)

 

There is no official ETA yet, but I hardly think we need to wait for too long for one as the amp is essentially feature complete.


Edited by warp08 - 5/17/11 at 12:20pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphone Amps (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Ray Samuels "Dark Star" Initial Impressions - Chicago MiniMeet May14, 2011