LCD-2 and treble. - Page 3  

I am sure if you found the lcd-2's lacking treble you could eq them. I am not sure how well this would work but it seems like it should work.

the problem is if you did not heard some good treble headphones, you will not notice LCD-2 is a treble darker. it only happened when you try to compare LCD-2 with other flagships.

so do not worry too much.

Maybe it's a good thing that I sold my SR60 and K 702 a while ago, so my memory of their sounds is somewhat fuzzy.  I suspect that if I went directly from those to the LCD-2, I might be in for a shock (or maybe not!).

Yah, you might be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbophead 

I'm worried.  I've had them ten days.  Still waiting for the top to open up.
 

 

It never opens up. I've had my LCD-2 for two months, tried them on many different amps, and the anemic highs and lack of detail remained. I find them to be quite bad for classical music and acoustic music in general. I would recommend the HiFiMan if you want an ortho. The HE-6 is excellent if you have an amp that's powerful-enough. I haven't listened to the HE-500.

I take it from the near-total absence of anything on the HE-4 here that it wasnt well received ? Perhaps my 'Search' pulled back the wrong threads.

treid LCD with audioGD NFB-10ES (bright) and my essence ST with OPA2111 (warm/laid back) and never once thought treble was overly recessed.  If you do think so take a hearing test.  Just sounds 100% natural and smooth without any distortion or grain.

In fact these are revealing enough to sound bright if paired with a bright amp/source.  Only possible shortcoming is that the bass doesn't sound as fast or punchy as that of my Grado RS1i (from either source/amp). Weightier yes, but these are not going to dethrone Grado for metal genres.  For everything else though they totally obliterate the Grados.

It's a common psychoacoustic response that more treble is perceived as more detail, as well as that less forward treble is perceived as less detail [again hearing tests anyone?].  There may be headphones with more perceived treble detail but honestly for tonality this headphone is spot on.

As for "bad for classical" a lot of people tend to say this, however it does depend which classical genres we are speaking of, opera for example will benefit from the mids prowess of the LCD-2, but others may prefer a more "airy" or less dark/weighty tone for orchestral or chamber music.

Totally agree with all of that, especially the "bad for classical" thing. I listen only to classical and find nothing missing, nothing wanting. People keep suggesting that a brighter phone like the HD800 or HE6 is better for classical, but I can't imagine why, and I couldn't handle a brighter phone anyway. There's nothing about classical that requires more treble; far from it. What seems to be implied is that greater treble energy equals bigger soundstage, which may be true in the sense that the soundstage will initially seem bigger, but what's the point if it's an exaggeration and the treble has other untoward effects? I've read numerous posts about the AT AD700 having a "huge" soundstage, but I found the AD700 grainy, coarse and horrible, to the point where the size of its soundstage was irrelevant to me. First and foremost a headphone must be well balanced and listenable in the sense of having low listener fatigue. Soundstage comes well down on my list, but even if it were first I would not sacrifice a natural tonal balance for it.

^ It's more important to meet personal taste. Like there's different EQ preset settings for different genres I think is also BS, I EQ the headphones all optimally how I want it to sound like and find that setting optimal for everything, I don't want any further treble boost for classical for example like typical classical EQ preset would suggest. What I was saying with that is different people have different taste how it should sound like, different people want different amount of treble to stick out and we might even hear a bit differently as well and it's not that much of a music "genre" thing how it should sound like but more often a certain genre-listener has a certain kind of preference in how the frequency response balance should be like but this doesn't necessarily have to concern every1 so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 

There's nothing about classical that requires more treble; far from it. What seems to be implied is that greater treble energy equals bigger soundstage, which may be true in the sense that the soundstage will initially seem bigger, but what's the point if it's an exaggeration and the treble has other untoward effects?

Acoustic instruments have a very rich and detailed sound which is simply not presented well by the LCD-2. The main problem isn't the soundstage; it's the suppression of detail which makes acoustic instruments sound duller on the LCD-2 than on better headphones such as the HE-6 or SR-007. The LCD-2 sound good on some genres (such as electronica), but they are not well-suited for acoustic music in my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by visualguy 

 

Acoustic instruments have a very rich and detailed sound which is simply not presented well by the LCD-2. The main problem isn't the soundstage; it's the suppression of detail which makes acoustic instruments sound duller on the LCD-2 than on better headphones such as the HE-6 or SR-007. The LCD-2 sound good on some genres (such as electronica), but they are not well-suited for acoustic music in my experience.

 

 

Funny, I agree with you on most of your posts about Stax and electrostats in general.  It is surprising to me therefore that our impressions of the LCD-2 are so fundamentally different.  I TOTALLY disagree with the above statement.  Everything I listen to is acoustic, mostly orchestral or large-scale choral (think Mahler, Bach's B-minor Mass, etc.).  In my experience, the LCD-2's are truly natural for all of this, compared to my aural memory of these kinds of events.  I grew up with a sister who is an accomplished flutist, formerly first flute for the New Jersey Symphony Orchestra, and a sub for the Metropolitan Opera, and the New York Philharmonic.  So I have always had a deep immersion in classical music.  To my ears, the LCD-2 gets the harmonic tonality exactly right.

I'm surprised that we hear these things so differently!

But I guess that's another reason why there are so many choices out there.

best,

Frank

The LCD-2 sound good on some genres (such as electronica), but they are not well-suited for acoustic music in my experience.

In mine, they are. Very much so. I have never heard acoustic instruments sound so natural, never felt the timbre of instruments so tangibly as with the LCD-2. In any case the idea of a brighter headphone is out of the quesion for me and I'm sure many others. I already find the LCD-2 borderline bright on many recordings.

Honestly, if you are worried about the LCD-2 being dark sounding, they might not be the phones for you.  There's tons of bright headphones out there.  Any other headphone really.  One of the best (or at least most unique) things about the LCD-2 is that it is not bright. 

Also, I agree that they're good for acoustic music.  I personally think portraying the richness of acoustic instruments is just as important as the bright, airy qualities.  And most phones are colored to bring out the latter but fail miserably at the former. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEars 

Funny, I agree with you on most of your posts about Stax and electrostats in general.  It is surprising to me therefore that our impressions of the LCD-2 are so fundamentally different.  I TOTALLY disagree with the above statement.  Everything I listen to is acoustic, mostly orchestral or large-scale choral (think Mahler, Bach's B-minor Mass, etc.).  In my experience, the LCD-2's are truly natural for all of this, compared to my aural memory of these kinds of events.  I grew up with a sister who is an accomplished flutist, formerly first flute for the New Jersey Symphony Orchestra, and a sub for the Metropolitan Opera, and the New York Philharmonic.  So I have always had a deep immersion in classical music.  To my ears, the LCD-2 gets the harmonic tonality exactly right.

 

I'm surprised that we hear these things so differently!

 

But I guess that's another reason why there are so many choices out there.

 

best,

 

Frank

Agreed, Frank.  Seems to me that there are a number of people for whom their "reference" sound is another pair of cans.  For those folks, all the bets are off.  There's no telling what will sound "best" to you.  On the other hand, for those folks who's reference is real life, most hear the LCD-2 to be tonally and timbrally accurate.

Regarding the bass "slam" of the Grado...  If you drive the LCD-2 with a proper enough amplifier, the Grados simply cannot keep up.  The LCD-2's impact will take your breath away.

I should know more after tonight.  A friend, who has better ears than I, is bringing HE-5LE and GS-1000 (not i) with Yarland, Vincent and Vincent/Dynaco amps.  I'll have LCD-2 and 325is with Peachtree Nova.  I'm anxious to get his impressions of the LCD-2.  My biggest problem occurs after I hear a wooden drum stick hit a brass cymbal on a Grado and then put on the Audez'e.  We shall see, err, hear.