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Earsonics sm3 V2 - Page 28

post #406 of 1150

Using the Equalizer app with the v1's today, I EQ'd up the treble in a couple of places (either side of 8k) and it brought a more airy feel to them.  This seemed to make them feel faster and much more appropriate for faster hard rock and metal.

post #407 of 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by munkyballz View Post
Just to clarify, I don't find the SM3's necessarily slow, in terms of the combined pool of universal IEMs.  Just more laid back and technically not as fast as other sparkly IEM's such as the brighter DBA et al.  It is in general, still a fast earphone, probably at least as fast to any dynamic IEM out there, if not and likely faster.  For example, the FX700, a top tier dynamic, but still slower (quite noticeably) than the SM3, to my ears.  There is more natural decay, timbre, emotion in dynamics usually, at the expense of speed and technical brilliance.  The gap between the differences the two have gotten narrower and in some cases, razor thin due to new tech, but speaking generally, that is the basic ideal of each type.  If you're comparing directly say between the FX700 and the SM3, I would say basically the same applies, even though both are unique in that they "borrow" few traits from the other side's pool of characteristics here and there.

 

As for i2ehan, I think he owned the IE8's for a couple years or so, before getting a new set to direct compare in his now rip comparison thread.  I'm not sure about the Monsters though.

Agreed about putting speed adjectives -- 'fast',  ''slow', etc. -- in context. I definitely  haven't heard all from the "combined pool of universal IEMs" either. But speed and dynamics are at the top of my wish list (these characteristics also seem to be ignored in most reviews; instead, we get the usual bass/mids/treble/soundstage/balance assessment!) Maybe reviewers need to learn some relevant semantics (see Refs below).

I'm surprised to hear you note the FX700's are SLOWER than SM3s (albeit to your ears -- thx for disclaiming)! Really? How do you (anyone) define "speed"? How about 'pace' or (technical) 'slew rate' (how quick amp reacts to changing voltage)?  In the FX700 thread, I asked which is faster: IE8 or FX700. The response is mixed and confused. And your comment isn't helping ;)

 

What is a faster-than-IE8 IEM? How about Fischer DBA-02, or one of the top-end A-Ts, or even Ortofon CK-10/-100?

 

Refs:

What is PRAT? How does one gauge timing, speed, acceleration, dynamics WRT audio gear? 

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=57896.0;wap2

http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/23/index.html

 


Edited by alphaman - 6/9/11 at 5:32pm
post #408 of 1150

Got mine today.. snapped couple of pics with my phone. I remember someone asking, Shure Olives fit fine :) Very happy about that. The quality is top, I am impressed with the wiring.. great job. 

 

Sm3.jpg

 

Sm3.jpg

Sm3.jpg


Edited by go0gle - 6/9/11 at 5:57pm
post #409 of 1150

Back to the intended discussion; I received an unexpected package in the mail today, one containing a custom ear impression kit I had ordered about a week ago, and requested to cancel the following day since I was having second thoughts. I never heard back from the website, and wasn't sure whether my order had gone through or not, though on the website the status remained as "new order" and not "shipped". Anywho, I watched nearly every video I could find, and initially I thought it'd be easiest for me to make only the tips.

 

I first very carefully removed the V2's filter, with the inner filter material in tact, and placed a foam block within the nozzle, in order to block off any of the silicone putty from invading. Upon molding the two mixtures together, I used a bite block to keep my jaw open, and quickly placed a cone shaped mold onto the earphone as if it were any ordinary tip being placed on. The mold was shaped just long enough to provide a good seal, and not a deep insertion. Once I had a good seal, I let it cure for 10 minutes. After the 10 minutes were up, I carefully removed the earpiece and mold, and trimmed off the front, only leaving the front leveled flat with the opening of the nozzle, as shown:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

IMAG0243.jpg

 

IMAG0244.jpg

 

IMAG0245.jpg

Fits like a glove! I get a really good seal with them, which helps the V2's sound even more intimate. etysmile.gif

 

This was only the half of it however, as I took from what I was able to find online, and combined the results. With the cables removed, while wearing the V2's with the custom sleeves pictured above, I created a second mold to close off the rest of my ear, as shown:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

IMAG0246.jpg

 

IMAG0247.jpg

 

The combined result? biggrin.gif

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

IMAG0250.jpg

 

IMAG0249.jpg

 

While it may seem that the custom tips are loosely fitted, both the custom tips as well as the outer shell fit very well, and do not at all nudge loose when inside my ear. All in all, my V2's now sound so much more intimate, and for the $20 spent, I'm as happy as can be! ksc75smile.gif


Edited by i2ehan - 6/9/11 at 11:43pm
post #410 of 1150

I like how the V2 looks :)

 

I dont know about the custom molds, it makes it look geeky, but then again if it helps the sound why not

post #411 of 1150

interesting @i2ehan...popcorn.gif

post #412 of 1150

 

Does anyone besides me wear their SM3s over the ear, but with the y-splitter in the front? When I do this with my v1s, the cable somehow always gets twisted in such a manner that turning my head left or right will create a "bubble" in the cord right behind my ears. This is extremely bothersome, to the point that I will take them off and attempt to straighten out the cable. For some reason I find this quite difficult. Sometimes I just cannot get it to lay like it should and there's these weird kinks and twists all down the length of the cable right up to the plug. Hopefully this is easier to visualize than it is to describe...

 

I'm hoping someone might be able to provide some insight as to what I'm doing wrong. I can't figure it out for the life of me. I'm very mindful when inserting/removing them to not rotate the drivers or the plug. Perhaps it's something in the way I wear them? Any input would be greatly appreciated. How do YOU detange your iem cables? Does anybody have any idea what I'm talking about?

 

Could someone with the v2s please describe the way the plastic-wrap fits over your ear? Do you think the new design of the v2s would alleviate my issue? Better yet, post a photo of you wearing them. Thanks a lot guys!

post #413 of 1150

Never been a fan of the triple flanges, as the very tip of it tends to painfully pinch my inner ear, but after I received my monster eartip adapters, I tried the large triple flanges that came with my Monster Copper's. Dear God, this is better than my above posted custom molds; by far the best SM3 tip combination I've heard, even over my large Westone Comply's.

post #414 of 1150

Choose a thread and don't crosspost. Someone already answered your question in the other thread.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oclafcire View Post

 

Does anyone besides me wear their SM3s over the ear, but with the y-splitter in the front? When I do this with my v1s, the cable somehow always gets twisted in such a manner that turning my head left or right will create a "bubble" in the cord right behind my ears. This is extremely bothersome, to the point that I will take them off and attempt to straighten out the cable. For some reason I find this quite difficult. Sometimes I just cannot get it to lay like it should and there's these weird kinks and twists all down the length of the cable right up to the plug. Hopefully this is easier to visualize than it is to describe...

 

I'm hoping someone might be able to provide some insight as to what I'm doing wrong. I can't figure it out for the life of me. I'm very mindful when inserting/removing them to not rotate the drivers or the plug. Perhaps it's something in the way I wear them? Any input would be greatly appreciated. How do YOU detange your iem cables? Does anybody have any idea what I'm talking about?

 

Could someone with the v2s please describe the way the plastic-wrap fits over your ear? Do you think the new design of the v2s would alleviate my issue? Better yet, post a photo of you wearing them. Thanks a lot guys!



 

post #415 of 1150

... to be continued ...

 

I just dug out my SE530s. Not a whole lot going for them, but they are faster than SM3s. The 530s are probably as fast as IE8s (maybe faster? shudder!). A good thing. I have upgraded electronics and amps several X since 530s were last in active use --  new gear which undoubtedly works better with the Shures along with all my other cans for that matter --  so perhaps some of my former criticism of 530s were a bit too critical. 

 

The SM3v2's continue to break in...

I took them out on another 2hr bike run last night. Sigh! It was hard to evaluate these cans as I become distracted away from their boring sound so easily. The more I listen to them (in any environment), the more I continue to be less impressed with them in. I don't like the way they smear edges -- some folks call this rounding out edges. They also congest dynamics (specifically, macros). The top end (treble) is grainy and undelicate.

 

The SM3s do better (than my IE8 refs) WRT certain sibilants; and midrange + upper bass detail/richness. 

 

All that said, if you like sigh-end triodes (vacuum tube) electronics, non-oversampling DACs, and 'better' horn speakers, you'll like SM3s.

 

... to be continued ...


Edited by alphaman - 6/10/11 at 5:28pm
post #416 of 1150

pretty sure the 530s are faster the IE8 and that the SM3 is as well. Best way to test speed is through frequency bursts, ime BAs are generally faster. Speed isn't everything though and really fast IEMs tend to sound anemic to me. There's a certain amount of speed that becomes a good compromise of technical speed and decay, ie FX500, EX600, etc. 

post #417 of 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

pretty sure the 530s are faster the IE8 and that the SM3 is as well. Best way to test speed is through frequency bursts, ime BAs are generally faster. Speed isn't everything though and really fast IEMs tend to sound anemic to me. There's a certain amount of speed that becomes a good compromise of technical speed and decay, ie FX500, EX600, etc. 

Are you saying you think SM3s are faster than IE8 or 530? If so, I definitely disagree. And I would not agree with remark about BA being faster than dynamic. Either can be fast, slow or at a continuum in between the two -- it depends on that specific design's implementation (reasons may include: component material, wiring, crossover design (for multi-driver elements), etc.). 

 

I would somewhat agree that the speedier models are thinner sounding. It's almost as if you can't move weight as easily. My criticism of the SM3s weight is that -- while rich and 'creamy' -- it's a bit bloated (out of focus). 

 

 


Edited by alphaman - 6/10/11 at 5:45pm
post #418 of 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaman View Post



Are you saying you think SM3s are faster than IE8 or 530? If so, I definitely disagree. And I would not agree with remark about BA being faster than dynamic. Either can be fast, slow or at a continuum in between the two -- it depends on that specific design's implementation (reasons may include: component material, wiring, crossover design (for multi-driver elements), etc.). 

 

I would somewhat agree that the speedier models are thinner sounding. It's almost as if you can't move weight as easily. My criticism of the SM3s weight is that -- while rich and 'creamy' -- it's a bit bloated (out of focus). 

 

 


Alphaman Thank You for your continued posts, and Clarifications. I especially like the Vacuum Tube analogy comment.

I2ehan Bravo!! I did hear the Monster tips were outstanding (with the Sm3's as well)

 

post #419 of 1150
Originally Posted by alphaman View Post



Are you saying you think SM3s are faster than IE8 or 530? If so, I definitely disagree. And I would not agree with remark about BA being faster than dynamic. Either can be fast, slow or at a continuum in between the two -- it depends on that specific design's implementation (reasons may include: component material, wiring, crossover design (for multi-driver elements), etc.). 

 

I would somewhat agree that the speedier models are thinner sounding. It's almost as if you can't move weight as easily. My criticism of the SM3s weight is that -- while rich and 'creamy' -- it's a bit bloated (out of focus). 

 

 

SM3 is faster than the IE8 and at least close to or on par with the 530s. What examples do you have to give? I have tested many IEMs and in general that is the trend, BAs are generally faster. Matter of fact, I haven't tested a slow BA as of yet (though the lowest tier ones I've tried are the PFE112/HF5 but the slowest have been the TF10s which will be considered fast by dynamic standards.). Component material and the type of BA/Dynamic driver being use is important but this changes the speed of the driver relative to it's nature which can be either dynamic or BA but my experience has revealed that BA are generally faster. The SM3s are a good example of being fast and yet carry some weight but the sound is "creamy" due to the midhigh deprival and warmth coming from the lower regions. If you have an idea of how the drivers work, it's easy to follow that BAs are more effortless in producing the sound (speed) but then give up that visceral feel of dynamics (due to the lack of air movement) though the use of multiple drivers has been the approach to do both well. 
 

mvw2 and Joker lay out some measurements that coincide quite well with my experience when it comes to the speed of certain IEMs, here (see posts #66&68). Speed: IE8[7]//SM3[10]//SE530[10]

 

It seems that what you're looking for is energy and dynamic range not just speed because most of the speedy IEMs won't give you that impact and explosiveness in contrast to softer passages. According to what I've read from mvw2 it seems that the UM3x has both outstanding speed and yet that dynamic range and energy. 

 


Edited by Inks - 6/10/11 at 8:24pm
post #420 of 1150


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

SM3 is faster than the IE8 and at least close to or on par with the 530s. What examples do you have to give? I have tested many IEMs and in general that is the trend, BAs are generally faster. Matter of fact, I haven't tested a slow BA as of yet (though the lowest tier ones I've tried are the PFE112/HF5 but the slowest have been the TF10s which will be considered fast by dynamic standards.). Component material and the type of BA/Dynamic driver being use is important but this changes the speed of the driver relative to it's nature which can be either dynamic or BA but my experience has revealed that BA are generally faster. The SM3s are a good example of being fast and yet carry some weight but the sound is "creamy" due to the midhigh deprival and warmth coming from the lower regions. If you have an idea of how the drivers work, it's easy to follow that BAs are more effortless in producing the sound (speed) but then give up that visceral feel of dynamics (due to the lack of air movement) though the use of multiple drivers has been the approach to do both well. 
 

mvw2 and Joker lay out some measurements that coincide quite well with my experience when it comes to the speed of certain IEMs, here (see posts #66&68). Speed: IE8[7]//SM3[10]//SE530[10]

 

It seems that what you're looking for is energy and dynamic range not just speed because most of the speedy IEMs won't give you that impact and explosiveness in contrast to softer passages. According to what I've read from mvw2 it seems that the UM3x has both outstanding speed and yet that dynamic range and energy. 

 

Matter of semantics, I suppose ... 

 

mvw2's interpretation of speed [Well speed alone is a good measure of how clean or blurred an earphone will be when presented with complex information.  A fast earphone will be able to effortlessly present a lot of information, separately, where everything heard is unique in source.]  is -- I suppose -- one potentially valid interpretation of "speed". It's certainly not the first one that comes to my mind. I would call mvw2's acoustic event "congestion" (or lack of).

One can use Stereophile's Glossary to standardize audiophile-ese a bit.

To wit, then:

speed The apparent rapidity with which a reproducing system responds to steep wavefronts and overall musical pace. See "fast," "slow."

 

"Speed", for me, is mostly about fast transients, pace n' rhythm and partly fast macro-dynamics. Can the transducers keep up to the signal? (in EE, this is also called the slew rate of an amplifier) See my recent post in the FX700 thread for more on this.

The SM3, IMO, takes its time (maybe 'drags its heels') when transducing electrical to mechanical energy. In addition, it somewhat compress macro-dynamics. (Micros are rendered a bit better, tho')

 

The IE8s are leaner and quicker. And also more macro-dynamically real. They are simply, more engaging. I think they are -- in many important ways -- more neutral and much more a true In-Ear-Monitor. Most "IEM"s that I've heard, IMO of course, are In-Ear-Phones

 

All that said, I like the SM3s, they are simply not my go-to IEMs. Not by a long shot. IE8s OTOH are a different story. They are not simply my go-to IEMs, they are my go-to transducers. I choose them even when I have K701s, HD-650 and bd 880s around. 

 

You noted the UM3x as a possible IEM I may be after. I think Westones are too Shure-like (they share the same engineering heritage IIRC). My comments in the FX700 thread note: "With the 530s, as zippy as they are, I simply find their sound crude, glaring, rough -- all-round, and relatively speaking of course, low-fi and even offensive." I think (based only from what I've read) that what the/any Westones dish out won't be all that much more importantly different. And there are plenty of other (and upcoming -- e.g. AKG 3300s) interesting cans to choose from.

 


Edited by alphaman - 6/10/11 at 10:41pm
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