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Earsonics sm3 V2 - Page 74

post #1096 of 1167

Very different beasts, perhaps close to total opposites. W3 is v-shaped and has a very dry, neutral midrange, peaky treble, and really loud midbass. Good for electronic music and some metal but not much else. SM3 is a beast of an all-rounder that has a warmer, darker tone, forward mids with very flat, well-extended bass and smooth treble.

 

Both are really good with electronic music, but the SM3 plays well with acoustic, pop, most rock (metal is not so great but indie and alternative do well), most classical, hip hop (as long as you don't need THUMPING bass), jam, jazz, blues...almost everything. I found the W3 really only useful for electronic music; metal is tolerable as guitars have good crunch, but vocals are so overwhelmed by bass that its not truly enjoyable for me. I will say this: it makes electronic music sound the closest to a live show of anything I've heard, which is to say the soundstage is good, and the bass is heinously loud and a bit rolled off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illbetheone View Post

Any comparison to the westone 3?

Edited by Gilly87 - 6/16/13 at 11:20am
post #1097 of 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Very different beasts, perhaps close to total opposites. W3 is v-shaped and has a very dry, neutral midrange, peaky treble, and really loud midbass. Good for electronic music and some metal but not much else. SM3 is a beast of an all-rounder that has a warmer, darker tone, forward mids with very flat, well-extended bass and smooth treble.

Both are really good with electronic music, but the SM3 plays well with acoustic, pop, most rock (metal is not so great but indie and alternative do well), most classical, hip hop (as long as you don't need THUMPING bass), jam, jazz, blues...almost everything. I found the W3 really only useful for electronic music; metal is tolerable as guitars have good crunch, but vocals are so overwhelmed by bass that its not truly enjoyable for me. I will say this: it makes electronic music sound the closest to a live show of anything I've heard, which is to say the soundstage is good, and the bass is heinously loud and a bit rolled off.

Thanks for the feedback! Now I am puzzeled, since I listen to EDM that is very vocal centric. Would you say the SM3 is better for vocal EDM?
post #1098 of 1167
If you give me a specific artist or two I might be able to give a better answer, but its going to come down to preference really. I know I preferred the SM3 for the more vocal-centric Infected Mushroom albums and vocal trance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illbetheone View Post

Thanks for the feedback! Now I am puzzeled, since I listen to EDM that is very vocal centric. Would you say the SM3 is better for vocal EDM?
post #1099 of 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

If you give me a specific artist or two I might be able to give a better answer, but its going to come down to preference really. I know I preferred the SM3 for the more vocal-centric Infected Mushroom albums and vocal trance.

Dash Berlin and Armin Van Buuren...i.e

Dash Berlin - Waiting (W&W Remix)

In and Out of Love - Armin Van Buuren

This is what it feels like - Armin Van Buuren


Are all good examples of the type of EDM I listen to.
Edited by Illbetheone - 6/17/13 at 5:45am
post #1100 of 1167
Listening to some Armin now and honestly it really could go either way.

If you want to feel like you're in the club, go with the W3; it has a very "live" sound with electronic music, with most of the same benefits AND caveats: its spacious and exciting, but the bass really is like club bass in that its huge, mostly midbass, and overshadows the rest of the music sometimes, including vocals. If you don't have a problem with club sound, you might just love them. However if you find yourself being bitchy about the sound in clubs and wonder why the hell they hire a guy to just sit there and crank up the bass because it drowns everything else out, maybe look elsewhere.

If you want to just listen with a smooth, euphoric but neutral sound, go with the SM3; it is the more audiophile-oriented set, is more detailed and balanced, and is a great all-rounder. I'd recommend them all day long if I hadn't had such problems with the build, but then I'm going back to the SM2 and resigning myself to reinforcing the shells and just being super careful, so if you are a cautious person and don't mind babying them, they could be a good choice. The presentation can be weird, though; vocals are decidedly in-head while the rest is more spaced out, which sounds really odd at first and really does take some getting used to; it may compelled you to return them simy because it is so different from everything else. Even once I adjusted, I sometimes found myself toying with insertion depth and tips just because it sounded weird sometimes.

However to be honest, I would take the TF10 or Klipsch X10 over both for this kind of music. The TF10 is like the W3 but more colored and "fun, and less exaggerated bass and treble. The X10 is less v-shaped with a warmer sound and smoother treble; I think they sound awesome with euphoric house and trance. Both are quite spacious sounding, though neither is quite as 3D sounding as the W3; nonetheless they are both superior for this kind of music, IMO. I dont know anyone who listens to lots of house and trance who dislikes the TF10, and the X10 has an even less polarizing signature with better ergonomics AMD comfort. Both have the bass quantity you seem to be after, and sound great with electronic music.

If you have tried higher-end headphones and absolutely HAVE to have that 3D sound with a bit of extra air between sounds, the X10 might not quite take you there, but it comes pretty darn close, especially considering its only about $120 on amazon, and it has a smooth, full sound that has many other benefits, and makes for a good all-rounder if you arent picky about neutrality. I love recommending it because its pretty inexpensive and available on Amazon, which makes it a low-risk purchase, and doesn't have any severe pitfalls unless, again, you are really going for neutrality.

The TF10 is a higher risk purchase, mostly because it is no longer in production (ie you won't get another one via warranty from Logitech if something happens) and doesnt fit very well on some people due to the size and awkward shape. If you have bigger ear canals, you might just love them; they are technically superior to the X10, though not by much; you probably wouldnt notice if this is your first upper-tier earphone (which is a good thing, and dont let anyone convince you otherwise, LOL...becoming picky is a bad thing, I promise...it gets EXPENSIVE). The TF10 are a great phone and a keeper if they fit you well; I sold mine because of the awkward fit, but I sometimes wish I hadn't. They are pretty much made for this kind of music.

So the choice is yours! If you don't mind a colored sound, the X10 is the safest route, lots of fun and pretty versatile; however if you have the cash and really do want a more neutral audiophile sound, the SM3 are a step up in every way, but be warned that the presentation may confuse your ears and brain, and they are fragile. If you really want that full, exciting club sound, and dont mind vocals taking a back seat to really feeling the beat, then the W3 might be for you, but if you want a little bit less extreme version of the same thing with more present vocals (a good balance for vocal trance IMO) and have above average sized ears, check out the TF10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illbetheone View Post

Dash Berlin and Armin Van Buuren...i.e

Dash Berlin - Waiting (W&W Remix)

In and Out of Love - Armin Van Buuren

This is what it feels like - Armin Van Buuren


Are all good examples of the type of EDM I listen to.
post #1101 of 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Listening to some Armin now and honestly it really could go either way.

If you want to feel like you're in the club, go with the W3; it has a very "live" sound with electronic music, with most of the same benefits AND caveats: its spacious and exciting, but the bass really is like club bass in that its huge, mostly midbass, and overshadows the rest of the music sometimes, including vocals. If you don't have a problem with club sound, you might just love them. However if you find yourself being bitchy about the sound in clubs and wonder why the hell they hire a guy to just sit there and crank up the bass because it drowns everything else out, maybe look elsewhere.

If you want to just listen with a smooth, euphoric but neutral sound, go with the SM3; it is the more audiophile-oriented set, is more detailed and balanced, and is a great all-rounder. I'd recommend them all day long if I hadn't had such problems with the build, but then I'm going back to the SM2 and resigning myself to reinforcing the shells and just being super careful, so if you are a cautious person and don't mind babying them, they could be a good choice. The presentation can be weird, though; vocals are decidedly in-head while the rest is more spaced out, which sounds really odd at first and really does take some getting used to; it may compelled you to return them simy because it is so different from everything else. Even once I adjusted, I sometimes found myself toying with insertion depth and tips just because it sounded weird sometimes.

However to be honest, I would take the TF10 or Klipsch X10 over both for this kind of music. The TF10 is like the W3 but more colored and "fun, and less exaggerated bass and treble. The X10 is less v-shaped with a warmer sound and smoother treble; I think they sound awesome with euphoric house and trance. Both are quite spacious sounding, though neither is quite as 3D sounding as the W3; nonetheless they are both superior for this kind of music, IMO. I dont know anyone who listens to lots of house and trance who dislikes the TF10, and the X10 has an even less polarizing signature with better ergonomics AMD comfort. Both have the bass quantity you seem to be after, and sound great with electronic music.

If you have tried higher-end headphones and absolutely HAVE to have that 3D sound with a bit of extra air between sounds, the X10 might not quite take you there, but it comes pretty darn close, especially considering its only about $120 on amazon, and it has a smooth, full sound that has many other benefits, and makes for a good all-rounder if you arent picky about neutrality. I love recommending it because its pretty inexpensive and available on Amazon, which makes it a low-risk purchase, and doesn't have any severe pitfalls unless, again, you are really going for neutrality.

The TF10 is a higher risk purchase, mostly because it is no longer in production (ie you won't get another one via warranty from Logitech if something happens) and doesnt fit very well on some people due to the size and awkward shape. If you have bigger ear canals, you might just love them; they are technically superior to the X10, though not by much; you probably wouldnt notice if this is your first upper-tier earphone (which is a good thing, and dont let anyone convince you otherwise, LOL...becoming picky is a bad thing, I promise...it gets EXPENSIVE). The TF10 are a great phone and a keeper if they fit you well; I sold mine because of the awkward fit, but I sometimes wish I hadn't. They are pretty much made for this kind of music.

So the choice is yours! If you don't mind a colored sound, the X10 is the safest route, lots of fun and pretty versatile; however if you have the cash and really do want a more neutral audiophile sound, the SM3 are a step up in every way, but be warned that the presentation may confuse your ears and brain, and they are fragile. If you really want that full, exciting club sound, and dont mind vocals taking a back seat to really feeling the beat, then the W3 might be for you, but if you want a little bit less extreme version of the same thing with more present vocals (a good balance for vocal trance IMO) and have above average sized ears, check out the TF10.

Wow - this is the best response I ever got on Head-Fi, thank you so very much!

 

Well, I actually do have the Westone 3 at the moment, I got them as an open box deal for an amazing price that I could not say no to. I enjoy them, however, I found that for a lot of my music that mid-bass hump gets in the way of some vocals, this was most prevelant during "Waiting - Dash Berlin".

 

I was eyeing the SM3 because a lot of people touted them as being designed for EDM, albeit I heard that their build quality isn't the best. This worried me since these are worn two hours a day for my daily communte to and from work. I also use them for when I run at night as well, so my IEM's get a lot more use than my desktop headphones which never leave my room. I always take good care of my IEM's though (always stored in their case, never thrown around, never worn in bad weather, ect), so I am not sure I would have an issue. I do like that there is a replaceable cable though, which for me, was always the first thing to go on any of the IEMs I've ever owned.

 

I found some TF10s on eBay for under $150, I think I am going to roll the dice on them and see how they are. If I don't like them I know I can always just end up selling them on Head-Fi for minimal loss. But from what you said, they seem EXACTLY like what I need. The Westone 3's club tone without that midbass hump and forward mids (the opposite of the W3s).

 


Thanks so much!

post #1102 of 1167

I think you'll really enjoy them biggrin.gif

post #1103 of 1167

i love my SM3v2 and hated the TF10,

 

But i suspect i didnt get to judge their audio quality fairly due to the horrible construction, the shape is bad for insertion, the cable was stiff and heavy, it was hard to keep them in place (even with compli tips) at some times.

 

I went FS Atrio to TF10 pro to IE8 to SM3 v2.

 

The SM3 v2 was a shock after the IE8 becuase the IE8 has that huge soundstage and a very "neumatic" sound, its rich and full (dark at times) but at the same time a bit rubbery, heavy and bouncy, while the sm3 is very clean and clear, so you lose some of the fun but gain in quality and accuracy.

post #1104 of 1167

Tried the TF10's, they sounded great but was unable to get them to fit my ears correctly, even with different tips.

 

So, I just ordered a pair of SM3 V2s...we'll see how they fit and sound :) Atleast I have 30 days to return them for a full refund if I don't like them.


Edited by Illbetheone - 6/21/13 at 12:44pm
post #1105 of 1167

Damn! Yeah the fit is problematic with TF10...I loved them too, but I just couldn't be bothered to **** with them any more. A real shame; I hate the UE900, really wish they would've just stuck the TF10 in that new body and called it the TF10x or something. UE900 mids are hollow as sin.

 

If you liked the TF10, the SM3 might be too dark for you, to be frank. Unless you take the filters out very_evil_smiley.gif Just be really careful with them, they aren't very durable at all.

 

God if only there was something like TF10 that fit well...if you can't return them, maybe cancel your SM3 and get your TF10 reshelled; I thought about doing it for a while but in the end I listen to too much midcentric music to justify keeping them, let alone spend more money on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illbetheone View Post

Tried the TF10's, they sounded great but was unable to get them to fit my ears correctly, even with different tips.

 

So, I just ordered a pair of SM3 V2s...we'll see how they fit and sound :) Atleast I have 30 days to return them for a full refund if I don't like them.

post #1106 of 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Damn! Yeah the fit is problematic with TF10...I loved them too, but I just couldn't be bothered to **** with them any more. A real shame; I hate the UE900, really wish they would've just stuck the TF10 in that new body and called it the TF10x or something. UE900 mids are hollow as sin.

 

If you liked the TF10, the SM3 might be too dark for you, to be frank. Unless you take the filters out very_evil_smiley.gif Just be really careful with them, they aren't very durable at all.

 

God if only there was something like TF10 that fit well...if you can't return them, maybe cancel your SM3 and get your TF10 reshelled; I thought about doing it for a while but in the end I listen to too much midcentric music to justify keeping them, let alone spend more money on them.

What part of them isn't durable exactly? What should I pay extra attention to?

 

I have to agree, nearly all my EDM is midcentric and I really like a good headphone that shows off Emma Hewitt's insane vocals :)

post #1107 of 1167

Oh wow, you might just love the SM3 then. If it didn't void the warranty, I would encourage you to de-filter them because it takes away their veil, gives them TF10-like treble (a bit more sibilant though) and even punchier bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illbetheone View Post

What part of them isn't durable exactly? What should I pay extra attention to?

 

I have to agree, nearly all my EDM is midcentric and I really like a good headphone that shows off Emma Hewitt's insane vocals :)

post #1108 of 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Oh wow, you might just love the SM3 then. If it didn't void the warranty, I would encourage you to de-filter them because it takes away their veil, gives them TF10-like treble (a bit more sibilant though) and even punchier bass.

 

 

I've been listening to the SM3 V2 for a couple days now straight from my iPhone 5, here are some impressions:

 

I have to admit, I was expecting them to be a lot different considering everything I read about them. They are less "fun" than my Westone 3, but have a much fuller sound and bass than my JVC FXT-90. I think of these as essentially the FXT-90's on steroids (which is not a bad thing). I'm enjoying the crystal clear voices and mid range from all my vocal trance tracks which were masked by the Westone 3. However for some reason I think the W3 does female vocals better so long as there isn't much bass to mask it. As for non-vocal EDM, I found myself craving that mid-bass hump the Westone 3's do so well.  I can't win triportsad.gif

 

The fit on these is much better than my Westone 3 because they are slimmer and conform to my ears better. I also enjoy having the memory cable around the helix of my ear which helps keep them in place. The removable cable is a huge plus too, since that has always been the first thing to go on all my IEMs. I wonder how a BTG-Audio cable would make these sound?  L3000.gif

 

I didn't think the SM3 was so tip sensitive. I am hearing major differences between the bi-flanges and the supplied Complys. I have always been a Monster Foam/Comply guy, but for me, the bi-flanges really open up the SM3's, whereas I think the Comply's mask a lot of the vocals and highs. 

 

The sound stage is good, it's very comparable to the Westone 3, but I think the W3 has a slight edge in this regard. However, I don't see how some people felt "confused" by its presentation because it sounds normal to me. If anything, the W3 sounded "weird".

 

I am not fatigued at all by the sound of these, but then again I like to think I have a high tolerance to that sort of thing. 

 

The big point for me, and the main reason I am going to keep these and sell my Westone the reason I slightly favor them is because of the live music festival tracks. The quality of them is a hit or a miss, and on the lower quality tracks that mid bass hump from the Westone's really masked the mids and highs. 

 

As far as value goes, for $299 I sort of wish I had a tiny bit more bass, but I feel for half the price of a fully custom IEM I should have got that and a more reputable build quality (although the build seems fine to me). I take that back, if these even so much as brush up against eachother it leaves slight scratches and marks. I wonder how this is going to effect the 30 "like new" return policy.

 

I guess you can say I am happy, but am disappointed at the same time because of all the hype I read about these. The only thing left to do is try more tips and see if I can find a sweet spot with the bass.

Forget it, I am just going to get a refund on these. My ears weren't impressed enough, to top it off it's way too easy for these to scuff up; they're not worth it imo.

 

*EDIT* For the heck of it I decided to use the SM3's silicon tips on my Westone 3. Holy Cow, less mid-bass hump and clearer mids. I think I have a winner.

 

 

Here are some tracks I listened to:

 

Waiting - Dash Berlin ft. Emma Hewiit (W&W Remix) [She sounds heavenly on this]

 

This is What it Feels Like - Armin Van Buuren ft. Trevor Guthrie (W&W Remix)

 

Lick the Rainbow - Mord Fustang

 

The Saga - Gareth Emery

 

Walls - Sultan and Ned Shepard (Tiesto Mix)

 

Language - Porter Robinson

 

Live at Ultra Music Festival 2013 - Armin Van Buuren

 

Live at A State of Trance 600 in Den Bosch - Dash Berlin

 

Slave - Tritonal

 

Forever is Ours - Armin Van Buuren ft Emma Hewitt

 

Avocado - Steve Brian

 

Xiing - Orjan Nilsen [amazing separation]

 

Intense - Armin Van Buuren ft. Miri Ben-Ari [awesome all around track]


Edited by Illbetheone - 6/25/13 at 6:59pm
post #1109 of 1167
My tf10s broke for the second time in a year and now that Logitech discontinued them, I am getting a refund. I was really happy with them and they were a joy to listen to, but the durability was terrible. I will probably buy one again, but I might go with the sm3 or westone 3. Can someone inform me as to which of these three iems would be the best for classic rock such as led zeppelin, the doors, velvet underground etc. Also which of the three is the most durable because I carry them around a lot. Any replies and suggestions are hugely appreciated.
Cheers
post #1110 of 1167
SM3 would be best sound-wise but they are pretty fragile. Check out the T Peos H200 or another TF10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomboy2394 View Post

My tf10s broke for the second time in a year and now that Logitech discontinued them, I am getting a refund. I was really happy with them and they were a joy to listen to, but the durability was terrible. I will probably buy one again, but I might go with the sm3 or westone 3. Can someone inform me as to which of these three iems would be the best for classic rock such as led zeppelin, the doors, velvet underground etc. Also which of the three is the most durable because I carry them around a lot. Any replies and suggestions are hugely appreciated.
Cheers
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