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VSONIC GR07 Impressions & Impressions Thread - Page 307

post #4591 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Gr07 is louder for any given volume. I'd say the isolate more too, but I didn't use the foam tips much with the ba200 and the triflange never fit me well. However the gr07 do well...

+1 the ba200 are a little harder to drive than the GR07s but not by much.
post #4592 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

After having a few hours of the ER4S in my ears, I could the exact same thing of the GR07... but like you said, different strokes.

 

I spent almost 2 years ER4P/S first then the HF2 more recently.  And I've got a few hundred hours on the GR07.  

 

I guess we all hear things differently, but the idea someone would find the Ety sound more natural is rather remarkable to me.   Great reference monitors, no question.  But 2 different things.

post #4593 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobeau View Post

 

I spent almost 2 years ER4P/S first then the HF2 more recently.  And I've got a few hundred hours on the GR07.  

 

I guess we all hear things differently, but the idea someone would find the Ety sound more natural is rather remarkable to me.   Great reference monitors, no question.  But 2 different things.

It's really a mixture of three very important aspects that I personally attribute to "naturalness," which I think is somewhat synonymous with "accurate" and these don't necessarily apply to other listeners:

 

1. Detail resolution. Not due to exaggerated treble, either. ER4S, with the right tips and insertion depth, actually has slightly less treble than GR07 but also smoother and much more resolving treble.

2. Soundstage. GR07 has a more enveloping quality, but that is only due to the warmer response that it has. Everything is slightly meld together, but also has its own space; thus, a greater sense of space and clarity. You don't have to struggle to see what sound is coming from where. ER4S also resolve height and depth better than GR07 to me. To me, these things make the SS of the ER4S seem more realistic.

3. Tonal accuracy. Much of this has to do with decay and frequency response. ER4S's bass is 2dB too lean, imo, while GR07mkII's bass is 5dB too chubby. That, to me, means the ER4S's bass is closer to accurate. In the 2kHz-4kHz range, I feel the ER4S is more accurate and has a bit more energy. This is evident in vocals. ER4S's treble is just so close to being spot on, if you get the right insertion. I toned down the 10kHz-12kHz by 2dB, but that's nitpicking. In terms of decay, GR07 may have sliiightly more decay. Imho, ER4S produces precisely the amount of decay that is originally in the recording. GR07 sprinkles that with a touch more decay. However, if we are comparing them without any EQ, it may feel as though the GR07 has much more extended decay. Just as there is optical illusion, there is also sonic illusion. What I mean by that is, the extra warmth and sub-bass energy is what leads people to feel the GR07 has more decay. You wouldn't know it, until you start to flatten the GR07's bass as I did through EQ.

 

For the past couple days I've been listening to the ER4S with a gentle bass tilt with the height of 2dB that goes from the 1kHz band to the 100Hz band. I figured this would compensate for the bone conduction that one would only hear through large speakers. Below the 100Hz band, I gave it a steeper tilt to compensate for the slight rolloff. This worked beautifully, and I'm very much enjoying the added bit of warmth, and it does feel more natural. When listening to bassy tracks, I can feel my throat shaking, and the ER4S never ever seems to exhibit any lack of control in the lower registers. I upped the 2dB to 3dB, and felt it was beginning to sound too much like the GR07; it started to sound less clear, as sounds were starting to add on a few necessary pounds, so to speak. I didn't want that, so I changed it back to 2dB. I spent something like 12-14 hours with these in my ears last night. I endured the discomfort of having to sleep facing the ceiling the entire time, just because I couldn't take them out of my ears. With the GR07, I can sleep comfortably in any position, which is something I miss about them. I was very happy with my GR07, but its warm sound was too warm for me. Unless EQ'd I always felt like the bass was on the verge, though not quite over, of intruding upon vocals. This is a no-no for someone whose music collection is 98% vocal.

 

In terms of accuracy, or naturalness, I would rank these as follows: EQ'd ER4S > stock ER4S >= EQ'd GR07 >> stock GR07.

 

Insertion depth and seal are critical to enjoying the ER4S. Without them, they would sound about as sibilant as the GR07, if not slightly more.


Edited by tigon_ridge - 12/8/12 at 2:16pm
post #4594 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

 

Insertion depth and seal are critical to enjoying the ER4S. Without them, they would sound about as sibilant as the GR07, if not slightly more.

 

Geezness... eke said the same thing when I first stated this.  And I will repeat what I wrote then - I must be a special kind of moron not to figure out how to use a product I owned for years. 

 

They sound unnatural to my ears.  I'm not exactly sure what timbre has to do with EQ, but all the eq in the world wasn't making them work for me.  If they're your special nirvana great. 


Edited by bobeau - 12/8/12 at 2:54pm
post #4595 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobeau View Post

 

Geezness... eke said the same thing when I first stated this.  And I will repeat what I wrote then "I must be a special kind of moron not to figure out how to use a product I owned for years".  

 

They sound unnatural to my ears.  I'm not exactly sure what timber has to do with EQ, but all the eq in the world wasn't making them work for me.

 

Yeah, I remember accusing him of that :)

 

The Ety treble is the best I've heard. It's just the rest of the range that lacks ultimate realism and note weight.

post #4596 of 6423

Yeah, I'm too kinda getting tired of people commenting on seal and insertion depth. Seriously, we're not in head-fi from yesterday - I've tried every tip possible with my er4s and lately I use it only with shure olives and comply P. There is no human way possible to get a deeper and better insertion than I have. Also eq may help but it's just not enough to make the er4s sound natural. Yeah, stuff like acoustic guitars and cymbals sounds great but music is not only that - for instance, the er4s can't touch the gr07 for distortion guitars. 

post #4597 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by kova4a View Post

Yeah, I'm too kinda getting tired of people commenting on seal and insertion depth. Seriously, we're not in head-fi from yesterday - I've tried every tip possible with my er4s and lately I use it only with shure olives and comply P. There is no human way possible to get a deeper and better insertion than I have. Also eq may help but it's just not enough to make the er4s sound natural. Yeah, stuff like acoustic guitars and cymbals sounds great but music is not only that - for instance, the er4s can't touch the gr07 for distortion guitars. 

 

You're tired of people reiterating known facts? Okay, here's my advice. Stop visiting head-fi... because there has been and will always be a lot of reiteration on every known subject. Get over it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobeau View Post

 

Geezness... eke said the same thing when I first stated this.  And I will repeat what I wrote then - I must be a special kind of moron not to figure out how to use a product I owned for years. 

 

They sound unnatural to my ears.  I'm not exactly sure what timbre has to do with EQ, but all the eq in the world wasn't making them work for me.  If they're your special nirvana great. 

I'm sorry, but did I not put in the part where I said "these don't necessarily apply to other listeners"? You're entitled to whatever opinion you have of the headphones you've listened to; please let me have mine. That goes for you, too, Eke. What exactly was I accused of?? I've said all along that these were my personal opinions and preferences. Don't like it? You'll be happy to know that you're not obligated to.

 

Seems like people don't like to read about dissenting opinions here. Fine. Whatever. I'll move on to threads where people are capable of handling disagreements.

post #4598 of 6423

popcorn.gif

 Don't go, we need more debate, anything, especially the good things need some critic.

post #4599 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

 

You're tired of people reiterating known facts? Okay, here's my advice. Stop visiting head-fi... because there has been and will always be a lot of reiteration on every known subject. Get over it.

 

I'm sorry, but did I not put in the part where I said "these don't necessarily apply to other listeners"? You're entitled to whatever opinion you have of the headphones you've listened to; please let me have mine. That goes for you, too, Eke. What exactly was I accused of?? I've said all along that these were my personal opinions and preferences. Don't like it? You'll be happy to know that you're not obligated to.

 

Seems like people don't like to read about dissenting opinions here. Fine. Whatever. I'll move on to threads where people are capable of handling disagreements.

LOL Seriously, we like to read all opinions on here, so you don't have to have to leave the thread or anything. We know very well that your opinion is based on your personal preferences as is ours. We're not accusing you of anything - evertything is just a friendly argument. I'm not saying that I'm tired from people on head-fi repeating well nknown facts. It's just not an argument you can use in a reply to another seasoned head-fi member as it's pretty obvious we all know how to use iems, insert them properly and do tip rolling - if you wrote that as a general advice to anyone who could read that thread then I retract my reply about my state of me being tired.


Edited by kova4a - 12/8/12 at 4:42pm
post #4600 of 6423
@tigon_ridge
You're probably getting such pushback here because while you may state that these comments are based on your own opinions and preferences, but your manner of delivering them comes off as pretty condescending and implicative of other opinions not being as valid as yours, which kind of undermines the whole opinion thing. That's probably not your intent but it just reads that way.
post #4601 of 6423

Hey vwinter I see that in you sig you have the HJE900, the B2 and the XBA-4, how those stack up with the BA200 and the GR07? I have/had the B2 and the Pannies, also auditioned the XBA-4 at lenght and I like the B2 the most.

post #4602 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

@tigon_ridge
You're probably getting such pushback here because while you may state that these comments are based on your own opinions and preferences, but your manner of delivering them comes off as pretty condescending and implicative of other opinions not being as valid as yours, which kind of undermines the whole opinion thing. That's probably not your intent but it just reads that way.

That bold part really boggles my mind. The only way that I can understand how you saw that is if you misread the things I said. I never belittled anyone's opinions on products. It's their opinions, and as they've sampled the products, no one tell them whether or not their opinion is valid. I even specifically stated that. Here, let me quote it: "You're entitled to whatever opinion you have of the headphones you've listened to; please let me have mine." Regarding my responses to others' opinions, not all of which I disagreed with, I gave my theories as to why they think they heard what they heard, such as the idea that these headphones have significantly different decay times; and gave my dissenting ideas on what "naturalness" is. You must understand the difference between arguing against opinions, and purposefully belittling them; which I don't think anyone here did. I only started to veer away from this discussion, when I began to sense that people were becoming defensive and annoyed due to (their) misinterpretation or overlooking of the things that I wrote. I've seen this trend in appreciation threads, where any bit of debate of products-in-question's qualties in consideration often turn to heated disputes. In the future, I will avoid this altogether by posting my comparisons elsewhere, where strong bias doesn't likely exist that favors the product(s) being the focus of appreciation.


Edited by tigon_ridge - 12/8/12 at 8:53pm
post #4603 of 6423

popcorn.gif
 

post #4604 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post

popcorn.gif
 


Hahaha, that's the best emoticon i've ever seen. :-P  Although, it should be wearing headphones ;)

post #4605 of 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

That bold part really boggles my mind. The only way that I can understand how you saw that is if you misread the things I said. I never belittled anyone's opinions on products. It's their opinions, and as they've sampled the products, no one tell them whether or not their opinion is valid. I even specifically stated that. Here, let me quote it: "You're entitled to whatever opinion you have of the headphones you've listened to; please let me have mine." Regarding my responses to others' opinions, not all of which I disagreed with, I gave my theories as to why they think they heard what they heard, such as the idea that these headphones have significantly different decay times; and gave my dissenting ideas on what "naturalness" is. You must understand the difference between arguing against opinions, and purposefully belittling them; which I don't think anyone here did. I only started to veer away from this discussion, when I began to sense that people were becoming defensive and annoyed due to (their) misinterpretation or overlooking of the things that I wrote. I've seen this trend in appreciation threads, where any bit of debate of products-in-question's qualties in consideration often turn to heated disputes. In the future, I will avoid this altogether by posting my comparisons elsewhere, where strong bias doesn't likely exist that favors the product(s) being the focus of appreciation.

You're unfortunately making the assumption that what you write will be read the way you intended. There is no voice to back up your words and no body language. My comment was just about wording, nothing more really. As soon as you have something posted, it's like art and you can only control the intended interpretation to a certain extent, and never completely. Belittling people is an extreme of condescension; I'm of the impression that there are shades of grey, and again not in the sense that any was intended on your part. As an example of what i was trying to say: your wording implies that you assume I must have misread what you wrote as opposed to miswritten what you meant. And since when you write here, you write for others as opposed to yourself, the burden would fall on you to get your message across as intended and not the other way around.

Personally, I have no problem with you and am interested to read your opinions and hope you stay. I don't know how I'm coming across to you, but my intention here is positive.

I've never heard the ER-4 so I'm curious. As someone who reaaaally likes it, do you think the GR07 does anything better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Hahaha, that's the best emoticon i've ever seen. :-P  Although, it should be wearing headphones wink.gif

Yes!! That should be the head-fi mascot.
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