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Audiophilleo 1 and 2 USB to S/PDIF transport - Page 4

post #46 of 1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk3383 View Post

 

Not trying to deconstruct collective wisdoms. I am not sure exactly what I was trying to accomplish with that post, I think I was trying to enlighten members maybe, possibly help them look at things from another perspective ("outside of the box" so to speak)

 

Lower jitter -> better sonics = TRUTH. But having the lowest jitter measurements is not the end game.

 

Its all in the implementation and design, Device(A) can post the best measured jitter but not sound half as good as Device(B) that has a much worst measured jitter.

 

Reports in this thread are so far only consistent that Audio-GD dacs hugely benefit (from digital transport improvements in general and) specifically from Audiophilleo, but nobody says this must be so for devices from other dac vendors. Especially the ones like Anedio or Antelope with emphasis on de-jittering. But then it does not matter also for Parasound, my old Lavry DA-10 was nearly transport resistant, too.
 
Nonetheless, this discussion is touching several important points.
 
1) Should the measurements of digital transports be somehow standardized and should their makers publish selected jitter specs? Because the very good point you are making is that various jitter numbers may indeed be confusing or simply belong to marketing (dis)information. Anedio seems to say exactly this (quoting): We have intentionally left our jitter specification blank [..]  to measure it reliably down to the picosecond level remains exceedingly difficult, and even if it could be done, a single number is inadequate. While I understand that single number is inadequate because there are several jitter types and consequently measurement methods, as an end user I would like to see some objective facts and benchmarks. It's frustrating to choose from dozens of usb->spdif devices that all claim "low jitter". HiFace Evo lists this as the first feature in their product description and what? it does not even come close to Audiophilleo. Knowing some consistently measured numbers would greatly help.
 
2) What other parameters of the SPDIF signal potentially affect sound and how to measure them. Noise that does not qualify as any of the several jitter types? Perhaps amplitude or electric properties like impedance?
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

post #47 of 1176
Thread Starter 

My theory so far, after having gone through a few DACs is: If your DAC seems to sound different depending on which input and/or source you use, then it might benefit from something like the Audiophilleo.  If it seems to sound the same whatever input and/or source is used, then very likely it wont (or the differences are so small you aren't noticing them, so same net result).

post #48 of 1176

I was liking it until I saw the price :)

post #49 of 1176

I have really happy with my Audiophilleo2 and have been wanting to post a review of my findings here, but haven't found the time yet. For now, I would like to share a quick experience I had when I contacted their support email address. 

 

While I have been very happy with the AP2, I have been getting a very small quick pop in the sound every 45-60 seconds or so. They were so small and brief that I put off looking into power management settings in my bios as listed on the support page on their website.

 

Long story short, I finally got around to sending an email at about 10pm describing the issue and asking if they had any recommendations on what settings to look for in my bios. I was surprised to see that Phillip wrote me back personally within a minute or two and was researching my motherboard's manual! About five or six emails later at this late hour, all the small occasional pops are gone.

 

This is pretty phenomenal to me that the designer of the product is writing back and forth with me and reading up on my motherboard and offering suggestions personally between 10-11pm. Fantastic. 

 

A quick update on impressions as well...I hadn't been able to shake the feeling of not being able to feel fully immersed in my music from my computer despite having a pretty decent (even if mid-fi) setup with my balanced NFB-10. This was a pretty annoying issue as I have really expanded my high resolution library and felt like I was still missing something and strongly suspected the USB source as the main culprit.

 

In short, the Audiophilleo2 has solved this problem nicely for me. While I think the stock NFB 10 USB implementation was good enough to sound pretty good and to not hear any obvious jitter at all, it didn't quite sound organic and musical either through my PC and Ultraviolet cable. The Audiophilleo2 has made my music sharper, improved low level detail, and most importantly to me has really given it a nice organic and musical feel. I'm feeling much more immersed in my music now and have been very pleased.

post #50 of 1176
Thread Starter 

I tried switching back to the Ref 3 instead of the Audiophilleo and it was apparently clear the improvement I've gained, so I'm very pleased with the results. Sid-Fi, I think you nailed the description very well.  I feel it will likely be a good upgrade for the other high-end Audio-gd DACs but with other DACs YMMV.

post #51 of 1176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid-Fi View Post Phillip wrote me back personally within a minute or two and was researching my motherboard's manual! About five or six emails later at this late hour, all the small occasional pops are gone.


Please can you share the setting changes you did to clear the clicks? Ive had occassional clicks myself.

 

The AP@ works really well with the sound signature of the Ref7 too. Its very smooth and coherent.

post #52 of 1176
Quote:

I tried Anedio with Audiophilleo2 and it's a pretty big upgrade from the internal usb.

Important ... use USB hub with powersupply with the audiophilleo ... it's a good improvement.

 

Originally Posted by axw View Post


 

 

Reports in this thread are so far only consistent that Audio-GD dacs hugely benefit (from digital transport improvements in general and) specifically from Audiophilleo, but nobody says this must be so for devices from other dac vendors. Especially the ones like Anedio or Antelope with emphasis on de-jittering. But then it does not matter also for Parasound, my old Lavry DA-10 was nearly transport resistant, too.
 
Nonetheless, this discussion is touching several important points.
 
1) Should the measurements of digital transports be somehow standardized and should their makers publish selected jitter specs? Because the very good point you are making is that various jitter numbers may indeed be confusing or simply belong to marketing (dis)information. Anedio seems to say exactly this (quoting): We have intentionally left our jitter specification blank [..]  to measure it reliably down to the picosecond level remains exceedingly difficult, and even if it could be done, a single number is inadequate. While I understand that single number is inadequate because there are several jitter types and consequently measurement methods, as an end user I would like to see some objective facts and benchmarks. It's frustrating to choose from dozens of usb->spdif devices that all claim "low jitter". HiFace Evo lists this as the first feature in their product description and what? it does not even come close to Audiophilleo. Knowing some consistently measured numbers would greatly help.
 
2) What other parameters of the SPDIF signal potentially affect sound and how to measure them. Noise that does not qualify as any of the several jitter types? Perhaps amplitude or electric properties like impedance?
 
 
 
 
 

 

 



 

post #53 of 1176

I found AP2 was giving less organic sound than my Xonar Essence ST soundcard. It was more detailled but thin in the bass region and not having the dynamic of the Xonar soundcard.

 

I put a simple USB hub (with generic alimentation) between computer and AP2 and the dynamic problem and the bass region was filled. This setup (hub + ap2) is a true winner for me.

I will have to try to feed the hub with a battery or something like that.

 

If you have opportunity to try that ... try ... it's not expansive at all.

 

My final setup is 30 foot usb from computer to hub. Hub to AP2 direct connexion (adapter) and AP2 to DAC direct connexion and it's sound wonderful.

I am using the specific driver with AP2

 

post #54 of 1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pompon View Post

I found AP2 was giving less organic sound than my Xonar Essence ST soundcard. It was more detailled but thin in the bass region and not having the dynamic of the Xonar soundcard.

 

I put a simple USB hub (with generic alimentation) between computer and AP2 and the dynamic problem and the bass region was filled. This setup (hub + ap2) is a true winner for me.

I will have to try to feed the hub with a battery or something like that.

 


The best hub I've seen is the Vaunix Lab Brick. Its pretty expensive, but the USB output should be way cleaner than anything else. You could also power it with something like a Hynes PSU or battery power if you want to pull out all the stops.

 

post #55 of 1176

Pompom which usb hub are you using?  Dave, any other comparable alternatives to the Vaunix usb hub?  A bit pricey normal_smile%20.gif

post #56 of 1176

 

Pompon, many thanks for sharing!

 

Quite amazing, that despite multiple jitter reduction features in Anedio, Audiophilleo still brings a notable improvement! Did you maybe have a chance to compare with any of AGD NFB sabre dacs? Such comparison would tell a lot. And what other DACs have you tried with Audiophilleo?

 

As to usb hubs, for best results they'd need to be powered with linear than switching psu-s, I suppose? I am using linear psu from Aqvox with great results..

post #57 of 1176

Today I went out to my local computer store and picked up the Vantec 3.0 usb hub with it's own wallwart power supply.  After testing a few songs, I'm having some troubles discerning the differences between having the hub present and absent with the ap2.  This was done with my audio gd reference 1 (V2/v3 ?? dsp), c2 amp acss, and HD650 headphones. 

 

I thought my audio-gd reference 3 (V5) converter faired really well against the ap2 with the ap2 being able to pick up more details and painting a more accurate picture of the my music but at the same time I feel the ap2 is slightly thinner sounding compared to the reference 3.  The improvement is not enormous but noticeable detail wise.  If you own a reference 3 with V5 dsp converter already and have some extra cash lying around to upgrade, you have my recommendation on the ap2.  But I won't lose sleep over not owning the ap2 because the reference 3 v5 is already a very good quality converter that more or less satisfies my audio needs imo.  I'm not going to compare it with the musiland 01usd, teralink or the hiface because I feel they're just a big leap behind the ap2/re3.


Edited by tamahome77 - 5/28/11 at 3:01pm
post #58 of 1176

Nada,

 

Sorry for the delayed reply. Here are the settings I changed to get rid of the clicks. It actually took changing these settings and switching to a different usb port as well to permanently get rid of them. For whatever reason, one of the usb ports on my PC tower was more problematic. Also, I have a Intel Core I7 and Asus Sabertooth motherboard, so these may or not apply to you.

 

Dave

 

-edit- Just realized the settings did not paste when I posted this, so adding them now.

 

1.       Disable “c1e support”  under “advanced->cpu configuration”

2.       Disable “CPu TM”

3.       disable “Intel Speedstep”

4.       disable “intel c-state tech”


Edited by Sid-Fi - 5/29/11 at 8:47pm
post #59 of 1176

Nada and axw, would you mind doing the Hex Inverter 74AHC04 / 74VHC04 chip upgrade I mentioned in the Audio-gd DI thread and compare the result to the AP1/2? I am tempted to try the AP2 but it is still $500. I am not sure if it would give an obvious upgrade to the DI with the faster hex inverter chip.

 

Thanks!

post #60 of 1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid-Fi View Post

1.       Disable “c1e support”  under “advanced->cpu configuration”

2.       Disable “CPu TM”

3.       disable “Intel Speedstep”

4.       disable “intel c-state tech”


This isn't a specific issue to your motherboard. When using any type of USB audio streaming, you do not want the CPU constantly shifting its clock speed and voltage.

 

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