Need some DAC/AMP Schooling + Advice [Losing Sanity/Long Post]

Hello, everyone.

New to Head-Fi; I already realize I threw my purse in a fire pit when registering. For the past few weeks now, I’ve been searching Head-Fi looking for the best DAC+AMP for my needs & budget. It seems like no matter how far I dig in these forums, one thing leads to another. It doesn’t seem like I’ll ever be content with my DAC+Amp unless I spend over 1000 USD, which sadly isn’t what I have available to me at the moment. I’ll try to list everything nice and neatly for you all and then share what I’ve dug up and you can help shed some light on what’s great for the price and what can be tossed out of my list.

My Goal: To get the best possible sound for my budget using HD600s and DT990s. Any higher up the chain and I will be spending 1000+ on my DAC+Amp.

My Budget: Iffy at the moment, which I know you’ll all hate to hear since you can’t really give a recommendation on an iffy budget, but I honestly don’t know how much I should spend. Here’s the problem. I’d like to save as much money as I can, but I don’t want to skimp on the DAC/AMP. I’ll go into further detail about this later on, but my MAXIMUM budget is 450 because after that I might as well be looking into 700 dollar solutions which I hear is where things start to get good?

My Past: I just sold off a Xonar DX after having used it for a year. It was, to me, a huge improvement over my poor on board (ALC1200 – Asus’ “custom” Realtek driver which is worse than ALC889A). I’m looking for more than what the Xonar DX gave me DAC wise while also having an amp that’s good enough to drive 600ohm headphones, specifically the ones I mentioned above[HD600s + DT990s]. I’m currently using AD700s and while they’re good, I want more. I’m also planning on buying speakers, so the DAC will have to have RCA, Preamp, etc..

My Journey: I started low initially, but then kept finding a better solution and then another solution. It’s part of why I’m going insane because I’m not sure I’ll ever be happy unless I spend 1000+ dollars from the getgo. I want something that will keep me content until I’m able to spend 1000+ dollars on a high level DAC/AMP. I’m NOT looking for a DAC+AMP combo in one. I’m simply looking for the best DAC AND AMP I can get for my iffy budget. If it happens to come in a nice bundle, that’s awesome and will mean less clutter, but if it sacrifices quality to have it in one combo, I’m willing to forego the nice little bundle and have wires all throughout my room. I don’t care if I have to have a refrigerator sized machine next to my desk as long as it will make me happy.

My Needs: It doesn’t seem like I can find a thread that says “THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST FOR THIS PRICE RANGE.” Maybe there isn’t an absolute best and it’s all different sound signatures. I’m not sure. I’m looking to find excellent bang for my buck though. I’d like to know how each DAC/AMP compares/rates to one another, to another DAC/AMP yet to be introduced as an option and how much better sound I’ll be hearing for the price. For instance, how much better is the sound from my 90 dollar Xonar DX card to a 120 dollar Musiland Monitor 02 (and replace this with all other DACs). I’m not sure if audio is so quantitative that it can be marked by %’s like “This DAC is x% better than the DX”, but if it can be that’d help me understand how much better the DAC is than the DXs and how well my money is being spent. After all that is said and done, it needs to be able to drive 600 ohm headphones. If not, useless to me.

My Findings: Are all over the wall. Totally shotgunned in terms of price range:

HIFIDIY Aune Mini Mk2 SE - $140

Musiland Monitor 02 - $120

24 Bit PCM1794A - $200 (Only if it's significantly better than the others or if I can find it cheaper. Friend recommended me this as the best DAC under 200).

iBasso D-4/10 - (What's the difference between all of them and why is one better than the other?)

Audio GD NFB-12/11/FUN/Compass – All of these look good, but I don’t know which is the best, where does the REAL boost in quality tip off, why I should get one rather than another etc.. Will they drive 600ohms?

NuForce Icon HDP - $450 – If I went this route, would I be happy?

What else do you recommend that will make me happy until I’m really ready to lay down some cash for a nice high level set up?

It doesn’t need to be portable. I’m not going anywhere with this. It’s staying on my desk at all times. I don’t care about the size. I’d like it to look pretty, but don’t really care as long as it’s in a box and I don’t have to Do-it-Myself.

Now I know it’s taken you probably 10 minutes to get to this if you’ve actually read everything I’ve stated so.. what do you recommend for me? Please give me all ratings/rankings/thoughts on the equipment listed or equipment not listed. Thanks so much for all advice in advance.

Miscellaneous information: I am into Rammstein, Deftones, Coldplay, Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation, Leaves Eyes’, After Forever, A Perfect Circle, Tool, Dubstep, Hardstyle, Classical, Orchestral, Oldies.  I love singers that can hit high highs. I love nice bass. I am NOT a huge bass-head, but do like to get down to some dubstep on occasion.

I think that about sums it up.

Thanks for the reply, Dev. That's an interesting looking piece of hardware and I do remember reading a little about it. I went and read further into it and the biggest thing about it is the DAC, which is nice, but what about the headphone amp? Will it drive 600 ohm headphones well enough?I think I saw something about it only being able to drive 300 ohm headphones, not sure though..If so that's a problem. Would I be very happy with this purchase..or could I spend less and be just about as happy with another DAC/AMP? Although I did make 450 my limit I meant it as a sort of DEAR GOD MAXIMUM and would actually like to be under..but if it's TRULY that good I'll keep it in mind. By the way, does Head-fi not like to play with FireFox 4.0 or is the reply feature really bad on Head-Fi? Seems like when I try to edit my post or put in a paragraph break it doesn't work well. It's rather annoying. Anyhow, please keep the suggestions coming.I am also in no rush to purchase the gear so I am more than able to wait for it to come up for sale if it'll save me some money.

Thanks for the link Permagrin.

The way he wrote it really makes you believe this is an extremely high end piece of hardware only really lacking in features, the brand name and a bit in the amp section.

This DAC/AMP really makes me feel more confident about my purchase than I was originally feeling and even though it's higher priced that I was originally thinking, I think that it'll be worth it in the long run. I think this DAC/AMP will last me for a long, long time.

So far I'm considering the Yulong D100 strongly, but if anyone else has something amazing like this, please feel free to input your opinions.

Would it be reasonable to ask for the D100 at 320 dollars or so? What are the going rate for these in CONUS?

Also, what does the author mean when he says, "The only other thing to consider is that the Yulong does not have volume control for the RCA or XLR outputs, so it can’t be used as a preamp in a system the way these other units can. It has to be paired with a preamp of some type, or used with as a standalone unit with headphones. That was never a limitation for me but for some people it might matter, so I mention it."

Is that what Dev was talking about and can be easily remedied with a 50 dollar solution or is this more problematic than I anticipated?

Upon further research on the Yulong D100, it seems many people have returned theirs after a while or it's had quality control issues. Either the units have overheated or who knows what. I don't want a product I'll have to pay to ship to China or w/e to have it fixed. I really like the idea of the Yulong and all, but just how many people are really having problems with it?

Also, what do you all think of the DacMagic? How does it compare to the Yulong? What are the going rates for DacMagics? I believe they're more reliable and if something goes wrong it's easier to ship it to them under warranty. Although if I'm buying it used off a headfier I'm not sure any of this may matter, but who knows.

Thoughts on the DacMagic? How is the amp on the DacMagic in comparison? Price comparison? Dac/parts comparison? Which is the better DAC? Are they both roughly the same. If so I almost feel safer going DacMagic, but if the DacMagic simply doesn't have as good components or sound as clean as the Yulong, I may stick with trying to get one of these rather than getting a DacMagic. I truly do want the best for my money, but at the same time don't want to spend MORE in repairs when I could have gotten something reliable, know what I mean?

It's shame since the Yulong on the outside looks very nice.

Also, almost everytime I search for Yulong D100 and for sale people were selling it for 300..hmm:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/507499/fs-yulong-d100-asrc-dac-300

Some guy in Australia's selling his for 380+shipping.

Wish I could have bought the 300 dollar one from that guy. I hope someone else sells one soon. They don't seem to come on the market that often. :\

So then would you say the HD650s are a better match with the D100 since I hear they're darker? As far as I had read, the D100 seemed very nuetral and transparent. I guess you own it though, so your opinion of it is bright? I don't really find that bad since I own AD700s and I believe they're bright headphones. I enjoy the sound on them really. But maybe bright bright is bad? I wouldn't know. Hmm..That's a shame since I had a really good deal on the HD600s.

Well, at least you put me at ease with the problems people have had with the D100.

Unfortunately, you've brought up other solutions to consider lol. How does the Nuforce Icon HD sound compared to the D100? How does the Audio GD FUN compare to the D100? How much am I missing out if I choose one of these over the D100.

So..I've been asking a contributor here at Head-Fi questions and he believes that his Zero Dac is almost as good as an 800 dollar DAC.

My question is, 1) is this true 2)At what price point does one need to reach in order to see a CLEAR difference in audio clarity liveliness etc 3) Am I truly better off with a D100 or would something as cheap as an STX/Zero DAC/Aune Mini MK2 suffice? How large are the differences between an Aune Mini MK2 and the D100?

The honest to God reason I'm even considering spending all this money on an external DAC is because I noticed a pretty big difference going from onboard ALC1200 to a Xonar DX and that was just a cheap sound card. I was hoping that if I spent more on an external DAC I would notice an equally large difference in clarity, musicality, liveliness etc..

Am I wrong in expecting these things from a DAC? If so, I may as well just stick with some cheap solution and will forever be tormented by these findings. :\

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming 

The nice thing about buying audio gear, if you decide to buy a lower-cost amp, DAC, whatever, you can get it, listen to it, and decide if you like it or not.  If you still want to upgrade, you can sell your current gear (normally for decently close to what it went for new), and work your way up to the truly expensive gear in much more manageable financial increments.

 

Another nice thing about buying at the low end and working your way is up that you get good personal ear experience with what different gear sounds like, which will make buying more expensive gear easier - you'll know what sort of sound you're after, and that allows a much more focused search for better stuff.

 

One thing to note, though - it's always at the low end of things that you'll notice the biggest jump in quality.  There's a much larger difference in a $20 sound card and a $200 DAC than there is in that $200 DAC and a $2000 DAC.  There are improvements on the high-end side of gear; it's just normally not nearly as large as on the low end.

 

After all that tl;dr rambling, I'd say pick up one of the less expensive amp/DAC combos.  Give it a listen for a while, and decide if spending another $200 or so would be worth it to improve on what you're hearing.  If it would be, stick your amp/DAC up for sale, and use what you get back towards buying a more expensive setup.

 

Yeah..I already started looking at the u100, Audinst MX-1 and other cheaper solutions. Still not sure where the cut off point is and where the performance ratio starts to curve off significantly.

I'd like to power 600 ohm headphones, but at the same time want as much clarity as possible. I'm not sure where I'd be happy. Would I be happy with a u100 or an Audio-GD product?