or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 584

post #8746 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textfeud View Post

Quick and important question! Bought Burson HA-160DS demo model, but learned that it's not ideal with Hifiman HE-500. Now the same store has the Burson Soloist SL. Would it be good to make the swap? Would that be better for the HE-500? Are the Soloist SL good for HE-500? Also which DAC should I then buy (budget 125-250 euro for second hand).
I've heard people say the Soloist to be decent with the HE-500, but not sure if the lesser powered SL version makes the sound inferior in any way. Read the past page or two on power and make your decision on how much it matters. I'm at the point where I believe it's cheaper to buy an amp that pairs really well with a single headphone rather than try to find one that works well universally with all headphones. In that case those speaker amps mentioned fits the bill at a fraction of the price. As for DACs I personally don't put as much stock in how much it'll affect the sound going from a $200 to $2000 one. I find the amp to affect the sound more especially with a hard to drive headphone like the HE-500. I'd just pick an uncolored DAC that is well reviewed like the Bifrost or ODAC.
post #8747 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 

if u do say something about a brand a bit negative...do ur homework before that..as it could damage their name if ur wrong...peace out.

Well said.

 

BTW have you heard the Emotiva with the HE-500?

post #8748 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless1 View Post

Well said.

BTW have you heard the Emotiva with the HE-500?
Not yet...hoped to listen to one on the headfi meeting in london this weekend..but cant make it....but soon will..as friend of mine owning a emotiva will be visiting me next week from portugal, i asked him to take it with him..he has a he6 also (he is a emotiva affectionee as u guys..lolz).. Deeply he hopes i wil be blown away and stop blabbing about the 337 i had..he never listened to him by the way..so he doesnt know..lolz..

He will take both with him..So i can use his modified (NORSE audio) cable on my he500 (as i dont have a headphone cable with connectors for a speaker amp)... Pity i dont have my new amp yet..that would be a heroic battle lolz

But making something clear..i NEVER Said the emotiva is bad..as i cant say that..i can only say that if i actually listened to one...

But being totally honest..i dont believe it will sound bad as i know from a certain headfi member, who i respect deeply and is now going up the ladder ampwise, who said that the emotiva is a very good amp...and i trust his opinion... tongue.gif

I even stated very seriously i probably will buy one for my study room as second rig in my house..i wouldnt do that if i thought it was bad...but first my new amp..

I only said that going the speaker amp way is not the only way to go for the he500..
Respect to ya all!
Edited by hifimanrookie - 10/20/13 at 12:08pm
post #8749 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post

As for DACs I personally don't put as much stock in how much it'll affect the sound going from a $200 to $2000 one. I find the amp to affect the sound more especially with a hard to drive headphone like the HE-500. I'd just pick an uncolored DAC that is well reviewed like the Bifrost or ODAC.

Dont let some headfi'ers in the know about dacs hear what u just said... Hehehe

the source/dac actually can put a big impact on ur sound if ur amp is good enough (right DSG?) to let it through..
.on lesser amps its indeed maybe a Bit overkill to buy a quality dac....imho

Ps..on purpose am not saying cheap amps..but lesser amps..as budget amps can actually sound very good..

my personal experience with that :matrix m-stage rev 1(without he cooling vents on the side)..in my eyes still a gem for the money..i loved that amp!! And it did outclass many amps who were much more expensive back in the days i had hem for 3 years with not one fault!
Edited by hifimanrookie - 10/20/13 at 12:25pm
post #8750 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Dont let some headfi'ers in the know about dacs hear what u just said...

the source/dac actually can put a big impact on ur sound if ur amp is good enough (right DSG?) to let it through..
.on lesser amps its indeed maybe a Bit overkill to buy a quality dac....imho
Ps..on purpose am not saying cheap amps..but lesser amps..as cheapish amps can actually sound very good..

my personal experience with that :matrix m-stage rev 1(without he cooling vents on the side)..in my eyes still a gem for the money..i loved that amp!! And it did outclass many amps who were much more expensive back in the days i had hem for 3 years with not one fault!


How good should your amp be for the DAC to make a difference? Like examples in terms of different models...

post #8751 of 18079
I had the odac it was very good then got the bifrost uber and it sounds much better. Sound stage fuller bass deeper etc
post #8752 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post


How good should your amp be for the DAC to make a difference? Like examples in terms of different models...
Its hard to aswer that question...but in general..the better ur amp is in showing details in ur music the better u will hear the difference in dac.. Imho ofcourse

But ask dubstepgirl...she has now the mytek dac, she talked about this matter more deeply when she went from one dac to another..

I used a source with a vintage philips dac chip inside which doesnt even does 24bits material or has dsd capacity) Oh the horror..he downsamples it to 16bit..but my god it sounded wonderful with the 337 i had..and it only costed me 399usd!! (my hifiman hm602.. Which doubles as mp3 player as standalone dac)

As i said..u cant really say if ur amp is 'good enough' or not..its a very personal thingie..and u have to try it urself (maybe take ur amp to a shop/meeting and to do some a-b testing between a budget and a more upmarket, like a mytek, dac)

A few pages back i posted a list of amps of which i am sure u will hear a difference when u change the dac.imho..and some are very affordable ! But am sure others have same experience with other amps as well..
Edited by hifimanrookie - 10/20/13 at 12:40pm
post #8753 of 18079

The last two pages has been a very enjoyable read while sipping a drink late in the evening! :p Thank you Zoom25 for the detailed explanations, learned a lot. I agree, Hifimanrookie you would make an uitstekend politicus (soz about the Dutch, lived in Eindhoven for a couple of years), though I've met a lot of rational people with some very expensive hi-fi setups over the years. Interestingly enough I found these people seldom got really attached/felt nostalgic towards their gear. Often they would sell a complete system only to try something different from scratch again. Seen just as many people spending mega bucks on expensive hi-fi just based on reputation alone where they would perhaps have been just as content with a budget rig... In both cases you have to wonder whether people are really happy with their gear?

 

But this is why I enjoy reading Head-fi! Both the Project Sunrise 2 and Emotiva Mini-X were wildcard options I've tried based on info I found in this thread and I have enjoyed both amps a lot with the HE-500 without costing a significant amount of money. If I had more money available I would definitely have extended this to the La Figaro 339 vs the Violectric HPA-V200. But there is just as much to be learnt from budget rigs. The Project Sunrise 2 gave me a lot of exposure to different types of tubes and it has good synergy going with the HE-500. I was seriously sceptical that a speaker amp could work with a headphone, but in the end and to my surprise I preferred the Mini-X by quite some distance, so I am very content to keep using it, but I definitely won't rule out going with a dedicated headphone amplifier again, but I find it a lot more difficult to justify. For example, would the Violectric HPA-V200 truly be an upgrade? And then there is the search for that elusive perfect DAC!


Edited by daerron - 10/20/13 at 12:46pm
post #8754 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by daerron View Post

The last two pages has been a very enjoyable read while sipping a drink late in the evening! tongue.gif  Thank you Zoom25 for the detailed explanations, learned a lot. I agree, Hifimanrookie you would make an uitstekend politicus (soz about the Dutch, lived in Eindhoven for a couple of years),
Dank je daeron..am actually very active in a advisory commision (advies commisie voor herinrichting van nieuwbouwwoningen in amsterdam) for housing projects lately as a side profession.. And i do like it a lot..its on no payment base..but who knows.. I do like debating as u guys know..hehehe so if u see me popping up somwhere as a politician one day..u can say: hey i knew that dude..that was that 'pain in the ass guy' on headfi..lolz

Seriously..if u do get the oportunity to listen to a 339/337 even if ur budget doesnt allow it...try it out.. Am not saying its the perfect amp for the he500.. But everyone who listened to it though my he500 loved it..even speaker guys who always believed listening through headphones is for sissies and the only way to listen to music is through (expensive) huge speakers and monoblocks driving them, were tappin their feet while listening..lolz

.yes..they had some things they didnt like a bit..but i guess its inherent to the fact that a headphone never will sound like a speaker who stands in a room with all the natural reverbirations that room gives to the sound... Imho ofcourse..
And yeah i also know at least two people who buys stuff only because its considered popular or expensive..and i agree..sometimes getting the right stuff lower on the money ladded that go well together can totally destroy a very expensive rig of parts thats only bought because they are expensive on their own...
Edited by hifimanrookie - 10/20/13 at 1:00pm
post #8755 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 


How good should your amp be for the DAC to make a difference? Like examples in terms of different models...

Actually it has little to do with the amp, and more to do with the headphones. If you don't have a very transparent headphone, you may not notice and/or appreciate the difference. Your amp should be able to effortlessly drive the HE-500, with plenty of power reserves to boot. This is why you see speaker amps being so popular for the hifimans, most headphone amps can't hold a candle to the reserves that speaker amps have. Plus, the amp should have little distortion as possible for your desired loudness. Once that is achieved, you will be able to notice and appreciate the differences of better DACs.

 

Keep in mind this is all IMO, and subjective. The whole "more watts=better SQ" is beating a dead horse, and is just plain misleading anyway. With that disclaimer out of the way, as far as different amp models being worthy or not of a DAC upgrade depends not only on your budget, but also your perception of wallet/value/performance ratio.

 

In summary, you must build around your headphone. Order of importance #1 headphone #2 amp #3 dac (there are of course several other components, but these are the majority)


Edited by brunk - 10/20/13 at 1:49pm
post #8756 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

 

File source: http://ohinternet.com/File:JeanLucPicardFacepalm.jpg

 

This is pretty much the way I look when I read all of his posts.

 

 

Good information from previous posts Zoom and david.  I'd be curious to see some distortion vs voltage graphs for some of the highly discussed amps in this thread.  Anyone have anything on the mini-x?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

 

There's two things you have to look at with orthos and amps. First is being able to deliver current and second is the swing. How does the amplifier behave at peaks?

 

Nowadays a lot of amplifiers have ratings that far exceed their true capabilities. Manufacturers can list power outputs in many ways. There is RMS, peak power and continuous power among many. Back in 1970s, the amps had the strictest method of listing power. That is why you'll notice vintage amps with low power ratings but yet they still kick ass. Those 50W marantz vintage amps weren't rated on the cop out peak powers, but rather continuous for an hour performance at a specific load.  Nowadays you'll see peak power ratings on amp listed by manufacturers claiming 120W per channel. Take those amps and put them under the same vintage testing, they'll be cut down severely and end up being less than the vintage amps. 

 

So there is a threshold you have to hit in terms of power, but more importantly, also how long and how well can the amp maintain it the power around peaks. The whole point with speaker amps of moderate power wasn't so we could have blow the drivers out. It was so actually there so you wouldn't have to turn it up. Barely turning the amp to like 20-30% of it's power makes sure that the amp is acting linear. Even if there are a lot of peaks and for some reason the amp doesn't have enough reserve, it will still be done much better than say if the amp was running out at 70%. The amp becomes more non-linear as you increase it's output. This is amplifier 101. This is why with speakers, you always try to pick an amplifier for your speakers that can you don't really have to turn up. When speakers are driven with full control, the music is far more engaging. You don't want it to be sloppy. Same thing goes for HE-500 and Emotiva, and that is why the bass through Emotiva is always so controlled and yet punchy.

 

Now this doesn't mean getting 200W monoblocks hooked up. That's just bat**** crazy, even for the HE-6. Although something like the Emotiva is okay, as it has enough reserve, but yet it I can still get enough control on the volume. This is definitely better in terms of performance and value in comparison to those $200-$500 1-2W amps like Asgard. I don't think people understand the stats fully (Well, sometimes the manufacturers actually purposefully don't specify their ratings) which can further confuse the consumers. Those 1-2W amps can really only deliver the power to planars at peak. That's why with most amps around that power, you'll see that they can get loud, but yet not offer enough bass. They tend to get more non-linear during peaks and sometimes they can't simply even reach it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power#Power_calculations

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

^There's an example, that is the O2. It shows distortion vs. voltage with different loads. More power doesn't equal more bass. It might equal more controlled and better behaved bass. 

 

There's also another factor people tend to forgot: How loud do you listen? 10dB is quite significant, and that can mean a hell of a lot more distortion. Think about peaks of 100mW versus peaks at 1W on the O2 for example. The added distortion would be huge.

 

Hifimanrookies amp might have been able to deliver 1 clean watt without much distortion at all, which would be plenty for the most dynamic classical recordings unless he listen really loud. On the other hand, the O2 is not able to deliver 1 clean watt at all, for example.

 

I'd say 120dB (a watt or 2) of dynamic range without much distortion would be plenty for any sane person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

^Really nice to know

 

Here's some more amp/distortion vs. voltage amp measurements: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AllAmpsJuly2013.pdf


Edited by Shazb0t - 10/20/13 at 2:09pm
post #8757 of 18079
Have any of the speaker amps guys heard the 500 through the Lyr? Wondering if the 5 or so watts it puts out is more comparable to the speaker amps' bass presentation, or if it's still way off.
post #8758 of 18079

Lots of people praise the Lyr and the HE-500. Lots of power, and very similar to what many speaker amps would put out at 38ohm. Tube rolling could further enhance things.

 

If I was looking for a beefy tube amp for the HE-500, I would pick the Lyr, Project Ember, or a Bottlehead kit.

post #8759 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Lots of people praise the Lyr and the HE-500. Lots of power, and very similar to what many speaker amps would put out at 38ohm. Tube rolling could further enhance things.

If I was looking for a beefy tube amp for the HE-500, I would pick the Lyr, Project Ember, or a Bottlehead kit.
Thanks. Ember is quite a bit less power though... Would love to hear from someone that's compared the Lyr to speaker amps directly.
post #8760 of 18079
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post

Have any of the speaker amps guys heard the 500 through the Lyr? Wondering if the 5 or so watts it puts out is more comparable to the speaker amps' bass presentation, or if it's still way off.

 

M-13 comes to mind. Maybe even Malveaux. I think both like the Emotiva better.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. .