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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 568

post #8506 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

 

Aren't you contradicting yourself there? If it has "plenty of power to drive the HE500" then it should not lack "impact" or "warmth"?


You're implying that the only way a headphone can have bright highs or soft bass is by being underdriven. Why would this be true? Powerful amps can be bright, yes? 

post #8507 of 18086

... and here I remember somewhat said "...power is power...".  lmao.  No comment left.  :rolleyes:

post #8508 of 18086

I think there are two phenomena being mixed up here.

 

There's one factor which is headphones being underdriven vs being driven with proper power, where underdriven sound has weak / flabby bass, and consequently sounds more thin and anemic, brighter almost. On the flip side when well-driven, regardless of the tonal balance of the amp, the lower end will be richer and more robust, which would automatically give a warmer tilt (as intended, it's warmer relative to underdriven, but is actually the correct balance).

 

The other factor is the intrinsic tonal balance of the amp, warmer amps vs neutral amps vs brighter amps, which acts as a separate broad-band EQ onto the resulting headphone sound, from the power factor.

post #8509 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

I think there are two phenomena being mixed up here.

 

There's one factor which is headphones being underdriven vs being driven with proper power, where underdriven sound has weak / flabby bass, and consequently sounds more thin and anemic, brighter almost. On the flip side when well-driven, regardless of the tonal balance of the amp, the lower end will be richer and more robust, which would automatically give a warmer tilt (as intended, it's warmer relative to underdriven, but is actually the correct balance).

 

The other factor is the intrinsic tonal balance of the amp, warmer amps vs neutral amps vs brighter amps, which acts as a separate broad-band EQ onto the resulting headphone sound, from the power factor.


+1.  Having enough or plenty power won't always mean you are going to get the sound signature you are after.

post #8510 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 


You're implying that the only way a headphone can have bright highs or soft bass is by being underdriven. Why would this be true? Powerful amps can be bright, yes? 

 

I didn't say that.... Its just he said it lacks impact which I would guess because there is not enough power....

 

So saying "it has plenty of power to drive them but lacks impact" would be a contradiction...


Edited by nicholars - 10/16/13 at 10:51am
post #8511 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

 

I didn't say that.... Its just he said it lacks impact which I would guess because there is not enough power....

 

So saying "it has plenty of power to drive them but lacks impact" would be a contradiction...

 I guess the issue is whether the "lacks impact" observation is being made relative to listening with a less powerful amp (in which case, more power should mean more impact), or relative to individual preferences (in which case adding more power still might not result in enough impact, subjectively)... 

post #8512 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post
 

... and here I remember somewhat said "...power is power...".  lmao.  No comment left.  :rolleyes:

... and here I remember you not adding to the conversation in any way, just like you're doing now once again.

post #8513 of 18086

Has anyone tried the HE-500s with the Schiit Asgard 2? Recommended or not?

post #8514 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

 I guess the issue is whether the "lacks impact" observation is being made relative to listening with a less powerful amp (in which case, more power should mean more impact), or relative to individual preferences (in which case adding more power still might not result in enough impact, subjectively)... 

Both.

 

When given the same EQ boost down low, the Lepai does have more impact over the same EQ boost on the Magni. I can assume that it comes from the extra power, maybe not, but its there. "Impact", the word, is subjective, as is any adjective you would use in describing audio.

 

My individual preference is for the low end EQ boost and a slight cut at 9k-10k. The HE-500 gets a little too bright at times for me driven directly with no EQ on either amp. The Magni also seems to make things slightly brighter, and it is not as appealing to me.

 

If people have issues with what I'm subjectively hearing on my audio chain, why not compare them for yourself and offer useful information instead of thread crapping and offering no experience of your own?


Edited by bhazard - 10/16/13 at 11:37am
post #8515 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post
 

... and here I remember you not adding to the conversation in any way, just like you're doing now once again.

It's better than adding contradicting/confusing info and other craps.

post #8516 of 18086

Its good that you have found something you enjoy.  Personally im massively wary of T-amps for an number of reasons.  

 

Primarily its the BS WPC ratings they have, for example the lepai is 20WPC but its widely known that they are only good for between a quarter to a half at their rated WPC at tolerable THD numbers, any higher than that and you are talking about 10%+ THD, which is unacceptable. Even the Lepai's spec's state a minimum THD of 0.05%, that's the best case scenario, whereas traditional A/B amps routinely clock in at 0.01% THD driven from 20hz - 20khz.  

 

Also T-amps aren't know for their power or voltage output, which are both pretty crucial when driving orthos.  No doubt they are the bargain of the century but it comes at a cost.

post #8517 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPluck View Post
 

Its good that you have found something you enjoy.  Personally im massively wary of T-amps for an number of reasons.  

 

Primarily its the BS WPC ratings they have, for example the lepai is 20WPC but its widely known that they are only good for between a quarter to a half at their rated WPC at tolerable THD numbers, any higher than that and you are talking about 10%+ THD, which is unacceptable. Even the Lepai's spec's state a minimum THD of 0.05%, that's the best case scenario, whereas traditional A/B amps routinely clock in at 0.01% THD driven from 20hz - 20khz.  

 

Also T-amps aren't know for their power or voltage output, which are both pretty crucial when driving orthos.  No doubt they are the bargain of the century but it comes at a cost.

Of course. You even need to replace the power supply they give you with a 5A one to even reach that 20W @10% THD.

 

The benefit is having a low cost, small amp that can drive the HE-500 very close to how a large speaker amp can.  The 200W $129 class D Lepai hits around 50-75W @ 8ohm with acceptable THD, but by default it is much too powerful. I can barely move the volume knob before it gets crazy loud. I'm hoping there is an internal gain jumper, but I didn't want to have to open it to find out. (Looks like there is actually)

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/310-298-lepai-lp7498e-specifications.pdf


Edited by bhazard - 10/16/13 at 12:06pm
post #8518 of 18086

I know numbers arent everything but the specifications of the TA-2020 chip are pretty horrible, cost aside.  To get a decent THD level at 38ohms you are only going to have about 1.5watts available to the HE500.  Granted its still a cheap way to get 1.5 watt.

 

My observations have been that you need at least 5 watts of clean, controlled power to get the best out of the HE500.

post #8519 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPluck View Post
 

Its good that you have found something you enjoy.  Personally im massively wary of T-amps for an number of reasons.  

 

Primarily its the BS WPC ratings they have, for example the lepai is 20WPC but its widely known that they are only good for between a quarter to a half at their rated WPC at tolerable THD numbers, any higher than that and you are talking about 10%+ THD, which is unacceptable. Even the Lepai's spec's state a minimum THD of 0.05%, that's the best case scenario, whereas traditional A/B amps routinely clock in at 0.01% THD driven from 20hz - 20khz.  

 

Also T-amps aren't know for their power or voltage output, which are both pretty crucial when driving orthos.  No doubt they are the bargain of the century but it comes at a cost

Have you tried the T-amps? If not you cannot knock them. Just because they have over blown their specs doesn't mean the amps don't have sufficient power or finess to drive the orthos. In fact IMO, they work so well they beat the pants off most dedicated headphone amps under $1k. You know in this hobby specs mean crap so why even state them.


Edited by spurxiii - 10/16/13 at 12:25pm
post #8520 of 18086
Quote:
Originally Posted by spurxiii View Post
 

Have you tried the T-amps? If not you cannot knock them. Just because they have over blown their specs doesn't mean the amps don't have sufficient power or finess to drive the orthos. In fact IMO, they work so well they beat the pants off most dedicated headphone amps under $1k. You know in this hobby specs mean crap so why even state them.

He's not wrong though. It's just that T amps and new, small class D amps like the TDA7498E offer a lot of performance, in a small enclosure, for very cheap compared to most of what else is out there.  The Mini-X at $169 is a great deal too.


Edited by bhazard - 10/16/13 at 12:41pm
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