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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 531

post #7951 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

 

It's only wooly when you put it beside other modern orthos (like HE400, HE6, LCD2, LCD3) and A/B them. Against most other headphones it actually is less wooly. There is a wooliness scale, most dynamics are to the poor side, HE500 is near the top, other modern orthos (as well as some summit-fi cans of other driver types) are at the top.

 
There is a rumour though, that HE500's bass loses all traces of wooliness when paired with particular amps.

Jerg, changing the subject a little, what about the adhesion mod on your jergpads? does it really improve HE-500's sub-bass?

post #7952 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 
I know right, warm is bloated bass in my book so a LEAN warm is anything with slighty accented bass. Lean think of a good Prime Choice Flank Steak, it is VERY lean but the Prime cuts have some marbling, so it's lean yet it has some fat to it, that's what I'm aiming at here with the Lean warm amp, where as as warm amp is like a Chuck Roast steak, a LOT more fat

 

 

I'm a vegetarian. :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by highrolller View Post
 

What exactly does "wooly" mean? Like bloated?

 

Right, you can go and stand in the corner. I'll deal with you later. :tongue:

post #7953 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okamoto View Post
 

Jerg, changing the subject a little, what about the adhesion mod on your jergpads? does it really improve HE-500's sub-bass?

 

Now that this much time has passed, I have a better understanding about it now. It ensures consistency in the sub-bass performance, because the pads are solidly bonded to the cups instead of just clipped on at 4 tabs on the underside. As for improvement, it should be present but a bit more minor than I had previously thought (my early-on impressions of this modding step actually had some interactions with the back-vent mod, which I did not realize until recently).

post #7954 of 16548

In regards to wooly, I THINK, at least by the way dubstep girl describes it, imagine a kick drum with a pillow in it vs no muting. With the pillow or some really heavy padding, the drum becomes more of a deep, short thud, untouched the kick will really resonate for quite a while. So take your whole music collection and add that sort of feature to some of the bass of the HE-500. It's not very extreme but it is there, or at least I understand what dubstep girl is when she describes this, as well as what she says that there is a sort of veil going on. I could see the HE-500 having more clarity which is probably where the HE-6 comes in.  In some regions of the HE-500's bass, it loses its tonal accuracy and does not resonate the way you would expect in reality.

 

It's been said that on head-fi really exaggerate these intricacies in terms of headphones, but if you're going for perfect this is something that is an imperfection.  Am I right here in defining "wooly"? This is how I always understood it.

post #7955 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

He-500 also has less treble. And while he-500 has more clarity, it lacks the resolution of the t1, also the he-500 still seems a little thick and slow compared to the t1. And what is "everything else"?

Theyre both great headphones, i listed pros and cons of both. Also dont forget he-500 has wooly bass, and the mids, t1 has more detailed mids and treble. T1 just has brighter treble and isnt as grain free, but its not bad either, t1 is still the better headphone. He-6 its more of a fair fight, and the he6 can get better with better amping, but the he-500 is not better than a t1

 

I don't think HE-500 lacks resolution compared to T1. I think T1 is just sharper sounding and makes details stand out more. HE-500 is softer and details are more integrated into the overall sound. As for HE-500 being thick and slow, I strongly disagree with that. I think that they are very fast and full in a good way when properly amped. Actually, I think it's T1 that sounds a little too thin, as do other dynamics, when compared to planars. I think that with dynamic drivers, the extra emphasis on micro detail takes away some of the natural fullness that music is supposed to have. I feel that planars provide a more natural balance between detail definition and body.

 

As for HE-6, I never liked that headphone. Honestly, I think HE-500 sounds more natural and is just as technically capable. All I heard with HE-6 was more treble tizz and a thinner, colder midrange that made music sound less realistic and less fun. It's not more analytical than HE-500 either, because it doesn't have any more resolution or speed or any other noteworthy technical advantage IMO. I know I may be in the minority, but I can't deny what my ears are telling me. I prefer both HE-500 and T1 to HE-6 and I also prefer HD800, HD650, LCD2, K702 and many other headphones to HE-6.

 

Regarding HE-500 bass quality, I feel that it is only lacking if HE-500 is not driven properly. Even when underpowered, HE-500 has better bass definition and texture than many headphones, especially dynamics. The better the source, the tighter, faster and punchier HE-500 bass becomes. HE-500 seems to improve more with better sources than any other headphone I've owned. The bass character of HE-500 is a lot more similar to that of balanced armatures than dynamics - the lows are cleaner and more defined than with most dynamics. When well powered, HE-500 is also capable of producing a really immediate and visceral bass impact that most dynamics can only dream of. The superior bass performance of planar and armature drivers is backed up by measurements - check out the 20-200 Hz frequency response and 30-50 Hz square waves of dynamics vs. planars and armatures and you will see that even the best dynamics like T1 and HD800 are slightly lacking compared to many planars and armatures.


Edited by Pianist - 9/17/13 at 10:01pm
post #7956 of 16548

I actually think that the bass quality like texture, decay, etc on the HE500's with the Lyr and Bifrost Uber is great but it really depends on the genre of the music. For instance, when listening to Celine Dion "The power of love" the sub bass sounds very different to the sub bass from the song "A boy brushed red living in black and white" by Underoath... The HE500's also is unforgiving in my opinion, I can tell the difference between 128kbps and 320 and FLAC with the HE500's but I can't really hear the difference with my roommates Sennheiser HD598 so yeah. 

I feel the HE500's does most genre's fantastic except when it comes to genres such as post hardcore and death metal it lacks immensely. At the moment I am on the hunt for an LCD2 because I generally listen to EDM and I will compare the headphones together.

post #7957 of 16548

:)

post #7958 of 16548

Well, my turn to define wooly.  :p  By definition, wooly = 

  vagueill-definedhazyunclearfuzzy, blurry, foggynebulous,impreciseinexactindefinite

 ...

With the Emotiva driving my HE500 and recently the taboo, It's kind of hard for me to find any of the above in the HE500.  I myself play drums and bass, both acoustic and electronic for many years and still do daily.  I can't find the HE500 lacking in extension, clarity, decay in anyway.  But then my ears might be shot from playing too many instruments or not well trained enough.  Some people prefer a touch more wet bass, some prefer dry.  The fact that this wooly symptom could improve or get worse with amp pairing does indicate that the problem might not 100% from the HE500.  We might be voicing the source and who could say you know for sure what a track/instruments are supposed to sound like.  I have tried recording some drum kick and listen to the track on my HE500.  While tonal difference was there, extension and decay from the room natural reverb were fully in tact to my ears.  For me, the bass on the HE500 is exactly what I like.  It might not be as good as other HPs but I am ok with that thought. With the taboo, it's like listening to my 4x10 with a tube head.  I have no complain.  We all have our preference and our ears are all very very different.  Let's not even talk and worry about other external influences yet.  Always interesting discussing about a very subjective hobby...

post #7959 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post
 

Well, my turn to define wooly.  :p  By definition, wooly = 

  vagueill-definedhazyunclearfuzzy, blurry, foggynebulous,impreciseinexactindefinite

 ...

With the Emotiva driving my HE500 and recently the taboo, It's kind of hard for me to find any of the above in the HE500.  I myself play drums and bass, both acoustic and electronic for many years and still do daily.  I can't find the HE500 lacking in extension, clarity, decay in anyway.  But then my ears might be shot from playing too many instruments or not well trained enough.  Some people prefer a touch more wet bass, some prefer dry.  The fact that this wooly symptom could improve or get worse with amp pairing does indicate that the problem might not 100% from the HE500.  We might be voicing the source and who could say you know for sure what a track/instruments are supposed to sound like.  I have tried recording some drum kick and listen to the track on my HE500.  While tonal difference was there, extension and decay from the room natural reverb were fully in tact to my ears.  For me, the bass on the HE500 is exactly what I like.  It might not be as good as other HPs but I am ok with that thought. With the taboo, it's like listening to my 4x10 with a tube head.  I have no complain.  We all have our preference and our ears are all very very different.  Let's not even talk and worry about other external influences yet.  Always interesting discussing about a very subjective hobby...

 

...it doesn't matter though, because HE500s are not wooly on an absolute scale, they are just less non-wooly than the least wooly headphones. You are arguing about the first point, while the only validated statement has always been the second point.

 

An athletic person is slow(er than Olympics sprinters).

post #7960 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by highrolller View Post

Please tell me the Lyr is one?
337/339 with bendix 6080wb graphite colums as powertubes is one. With 5998 the bass hits harder..but less controlled and its echo lacks something..it doesnt sound fluent. For soundstage i would use 5693redhots as drivers..bass goes as low as possible and holds on until its deadsilent...evenasence has a instrumental track (1:30min lossless) on which u can test that out..during most of track u hear a low bass hitting every few seconds BEHIND the electric aggressive playing GUITARS...during the track the active guitars and other instruments diminuish more and more until u only hear the same extreme low slow hard hitting bass still every few seconds..thumb...thumb..thumb.(its a Bass u would feel trembling in ur stomach if u would play it through BIG powefull subwoofers) .u can hear its last echo very well..at the very end it has some kind of echo that keeps on diminuising slowly until its dead..then..silence..completely black..for seconds..wonderful....and no woolinesh!! Lolz.
But..i do have the jergpads 2.0 by modulor and the opengrill mod (mine is even without any dustscreen and the grillopenings are huge...i found out it sounds best like that..very open and wider soundstage..see my headphone pics) on my he500..maybe that helps also a bit.. wink.gif

And i know i said it before..I AM REALLY CURIOUS WHAT THE MODULOR PADS WOULD DO WITH A HE6...as i didnt hear anything about that..only bout the he400 and 500.
Edited by hifimanrookie - 9/18/13 at 12:35am
post #7961 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
 

 

I don't think HE-500 lacks resolution compared to T1. I think T1 is just sharper sounding and makes details stand out more. HE-500 is softer and details are more integrated into the overall sound. As for HE-500 being thick and slow, I strongly disagree with that. I think that they are very fast and full in a good way when properly amped. Actually, I think it's T1 that sounds a little too thin, as do other dynamics, when compared to planars. I think that with dynamic drivers, the extra emphasis on micro detail takes away some of the natural fullness that music is supposed to have. I feel that planars provide a more natural balance between detail definition and body.

 

As for HE-6, I never liked that headphone. Honestly, I think HE-500 sounds more natural and is just as technically capable. All I heard with HE-6 was more treble tizz and a thinner, colder midrange that made music sound less realistic and less fun. It's not more analytical than HE-500 either, because it doesn't have any more resolution or speed or any other noteworthy technical advantage IMO. I know I may be in the minority, but I can't deny what my ears are telling me. I prefer both HE-500 and T1 to HE-6 and I also prefer HD800, HD650, LCD2, K702 and many other headphones to HE-6.

 

Regarding HE-500 bass quality, I feel that it is only lacking if HE-500 is not driven properly. Even when underpowered, HE-500 has better bass definition and texture than many headphones, especially dynamics. The better the source, the tighter, faster and punchier HE-500 bass becomes. HE-500 seems to improve more with better sources than any other headphone I've owned. The bass character of HE-500 is a lot more similar to that of balanced armatures than dynamics - the lows are cleaner and more defined than with most dynamics. When well powered, HE-500 is also capable of producing a really immediate and visceral bass impact that most dynamics can only dream of. The superior bass performance of planar and armature drivers is backed up by measurements - check out the 20-200 Hz frequency response and 30-50 Hz square waves of dynamics vs. planars and armatures and you will see that even the best dynamics like T1 and HD800 are slightly lacking compared to many planars and armatures.

 

listen to HD 800, HE-6 on a well powered amp, TH-900,  and i guess you can even add the LCD-2/3, the he-500 still even on a good amp seems to lack full resolution, like theres a smoothness and thickness that seems to prevent details from being full resolved and presented. the HE-6 sounds like HE-500 but without that veil and nicer treble detail and clarity. you probably didn't have a good amp for the HE-6, its anything but thin, its fuller sounding than most dynamic headphones. and even when well driven, the bass still has some aspects of it that just don't sound perfect  to me, if wooliness isn't the best word to use, i don't know what is, but i can definitely tell that the HE-500 is a fun headphone to have around, though T1, HD 800, and HE-6 are all better. and even though HE-500 has good impact, it does sound rolled off in the sub-bass.

post #7962 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

listen to HD 800, HE-6 on a well powered amp, TH-900,  and i guess you can even add the LCD-2/3, the he-500 still even on a good amp seems to lack full resolution, like theres a smoothness and thickness that seems to prevent details from being full resolved and presented. the HE-6 sounds like HE-500 but without that veil and nicer treble detail and clarity. you probably didn't have a good amp for the HE-6, its anything but thin, its fuller sounding than most dynamic headphones. and even when well driven, the bass still has some aspects of it that just don't sound perfect  to me, if wooliness isn't the best word to use, i don't know what is, but i can definitely tell that the HE-500 is a fun headphone to have around, though T1, HD 800, and HE-6 are all better. and even though HE-500 has good impact, it does sound rolled off in the sub-bass.
Dubstepgirl..u know ur comparing toptier (+1200usd) to the poor he500 being only 699usd.. Right? For me knowing many people comparing the humble he500 to the best (and expensive) headphones on the market only shows how good it really is! No he is not perfect..not even close..but its a phone u easily fall in love with..and can improve it with easy modding... And with the right amp it really gives more expensive phones a run for their money... Imho ofcourse!

And as i said before dubstepgirl..try the modulor pads and the opengrill mod..a new world will open up to u with the he500.

And i agree with u..the he6 doesnt sound thin at all with the right amping...
Edited by hifimanrookie - 9/18/13 at 1:04am
post #7963 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 
 
Dubstepgirl..u know ur comparing toptier (+1200usd) to the poor he500 being only 699usd.. Right? For me knowing many people comparing the humble he500 to the best (and expensive) headphones on the market only shows how good it really is! No he is not perfect..not even close..but its a phone u easily fall in love with..and can improve it with easy modding... And with the right amp it really gives more expensive phones a run for their money... Imho ofcourse!
And i agree with u..the he6 doesnt sound thin at all with the right amping...

 

 

the HE-500 was 899 USD before though. the only thing i really find wrong with HE-500 is the sub-bass and detail, besides that i think its almost perfect. everything else is done very well. i still feel other headphones perform better than it, but may not necessarily be as fun or enjoyable. i know LCD-3 and HD 800 aren't as engaging with electronic as the HE-500 is.

 

 

u know i prefer the HE-500 to the Abyss as well right? 

post #7964 of 16548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post


the HE-500 was 899 USD before though. the only thing i really find wrong with HE-500 is the sub-bass and detail, besides that i think its almost perfect. everything else is done very well. 

u know i prefer the HE-500 to the Abyss as well right? 
Yes i know it was introduced at 899... they decided to lower the price as they were afraid it would steal away to many new buyers from the he6 i understand..it was that good..correction..it is that good.. biggrin.gif

Yep..i know u prefer it above that hugely overpriced phone called the abyss wink.gif i was not contradicting u my friend...i said it more in general..as many compare the he500 to phones costing doubling its price.. That shows its a good phone..and for many the beginning of the end of their wallet..hehehe

Everyone is now anxiously waiting for the next top tier from mr. Fang (he600?he7? New JADE?)... I wonder why they wait so long this time..competitors are working or already came out with new better models...
About the subbass..the modulor pad mod helps....detail..well..no mod yet..BUT MAYBE A NEW MODEL WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT..lolz.
Edited by hifimanrookie - 9/18/13 at 1:20am
post #7965 of 16548

well seeing Abyss LCD-3 and new planars coming out, he really wants to release something really amazing, a game changer for the entire headphone industry.

 

the hifigirl he-7 :D ,

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