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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 50

post #736 of 18020

I agree the 6 is king.  Especially with a power amp.

post #737 of 18020

With the 6 and I'm sure the 500 as well, the diaphragm can start and stop on a dime. You can hear the tightness of the skin of a drum.

post #738 of 18020
Thread Starter 

With a power amp, like the Lyr, I do hear a little more with the 6 over the 500 but I know that Fang also expressed this. 

 

I see that many feel the 500 and the LCD-2 are quite similar. For me, I do not find this. I find the 500 to be a little more upfront and raw sounding. Not raw as in bad but for me they portray the grit of some music a little more. The overall sound, for me, is quite different on both phones in other areas as well. So the human differences which keeps everything spinning, or not. 

post #739 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

With a power amp, like the Lyr, I do hear a little more with the 6 over the 500 but I know that Fang also expressed this. 

 

I see that many feel the 500 and the LCD-2 are quite similar. For me, I do not find this. I find the 500 to be a little more upfront and raw sounding. Not raw as in bad but for me they portray the grit of some music a little more. The overall sound, for me, is quite different on both phones in other areas as well. So the human differences which keeps everything spinning, or not. 



it depends on which version for me. the rev1 doesn't share much with the he500 except perhaps

the forward nature of the mids. but the rev2 moves closer to the he500 sound. not the

same, at all, but towards rather than away from. i feel the rev2 has better balance from top to

bottom and a slight warmer sound overall than the he500. by warmer, i mean more polite highs.

the rev2 is not slower in transients.


Edited by takezo - 8/28/11 at 8:15pm
post #740 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

With a power amp, like the Lyr, I do hear a little more with the 6 over the 500 but I know that Fang also expressed this. 

 



I guess this makes the 6 more accurate at the expense of sounding perhaps a little lean. However, pairing it with a warmer amp alleviates that coupled with ample raw power.

 

I've had this experience of cranking up the volume has a zoom effect.

post #741 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post





I'm not sure how anyone could find the LCD-2's vocals laid back (especially rev2), but to each their own. The HE500's vocals are nice and syrupy (sorry) though.

 

Its easy, put both on an amp sufficient to drive the HE-500 and listen.  I have about 200 post break-in hours on both the LCD-2 (v2) and HE-500, and the mid-treble (including vocal range) are where the HE-500s are a bit better balanced.  If you are finding anything other than subtle differences between the two then you are simply not driving the HE-500 with enough power.  i have posted quite a bit about my experience with both, I still own both, but the LCD-2s will be up for sale pretty soon.

post #742 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthling View Post


Its easy, put both on an amp sufficient to drive the HE-500 and listen.  I have about 200 post break-in hours on both the LCD-2 (v2) and HE-500, and the mid-treble (including vocal range) are where the HE-500s are a bit better balanced.  If you are finding anything other than subtle differences between the two then you are simply not driving the HE-500 with enough power.  i have posted quite a bit about my experience with both, I still own both, but the LCD-2s will be up for sale pretty soon.

 

Agreed.  The HE-500 sound pretty good with most decent headphone amps, but out of something like my DACport or DACmini USB DAC/amp the HE-500 and LCD-2 don't sound as different as they should.

 

But with a more powerful amp they really take off.  I'm still pretty impressed with the HE-500 balanced out of my SR-71b using the HE-6 cable, but out of my Eddie Current ZDT they blow me away.  I find the LCD-2 mids and highs a little more recessed except out of the DACmini, which fills out the mids and highs better.  So, if I compare the DACmini > LCD-2 it's fairly similar to the SR-71b > HE-500, although the HE-500 still remain a little more intimate and the LCD-2 remain a little more distant.  But with the ZDT amp I think the HE-500 pull ahead.
 

 

post #743 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthling View Post



 

Its easy, put both on an amp sufficient to drive the HE-500 and listen.  I have about 200 post break-in hours on both the LCD-2 (v2) and HE-500, and the mid-treble (including vocal range) are where the HE-500s are a bit better balanced.  If you are finding anything other than subtle differences between the two then you are simply not driving the HE-500 with enough power.  i have posted quite a bit about my experience with both, I still own both, but the LCD-2s will be up for sale pretty soon.

I have listened to my HE500 on some very good gear. I've never said that the differences between the HE500 and LCD-2 were anything large. I could easily live happily ever after with any of them, it's just that the LCD-2 really does carry the visceral attack a bit better for aggressive music, so I opted for that.
 

 

post #744 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post



 

Agreed.  The HE-500 sound pretty good with most decent headphone amps, but out of something like my DACport or DACmini USB DAC/amp the HE-500 and LCD-2 don't sound as different as they should.

 

But with a more powerful amp they really take off.  I'm still pretty impressed with the HE-500 balanced out of my SR-71b using the HE-6 cable, but out of my Eddie Current ZDT they blow me away.  I find the LCD-2 mids and highs a little more recessed except out of the DACmini, which fills out the mids and highs better.  So, if I compare the DACmini > LCD-2 it's fairly similar to the SR-71b > HE-500, although the HE-500 still remain a little more intimate and the LCD-2 remain a little more distant.  But with the ZDT amp I think the HE-500 pull ahead.
 

 


You have the rev1, right? If so, I agree about the recessed highs (and according to Lunatique's review, mids).


Edited by Alghazanth - 8/28/11 at 10:13pm
post #745 of 18020

Here's an interesting read about PMDs (planar magnetic drivers) in comparison to dynamic drivers and ESLs (like the Stax).

 

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/pdfs/Products_WhitePapers.pdf

 

I've read briefly about polyimide polymers but I can't remember where.

post #746 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post

You have the rev1, right? If so, I agree about the recessed highs (and according to Lunatique's review, mids).


Yeah, I have rev 1.  Maybe someday I'll get Rev 2, but if the sound even closer to the HE-500 I wont need them.

 

post #747 of 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post




Yeah, I have rev 1.  Maybe someday I'll get Rev 2, but if the sound even closer to the HE-500 I wont need them.

 

I'd say it's actually more different, but I haven't tried the r2 with any high end amps yet (nor do I really want to).
 

 

post #748 of 18020


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post



 

Agreed.  The HE-500 sound pretty good with most decent headphone amps, but out of something like my DACport or DACmini USB DAC/amp the HE-500 and LCD-2 don't sound as different as they should.

 

But with a more powerful amp they really take off.  I'm still pretty impressed with the HE-500 balanced out of my SR-71b using the HE-6 cable, but out of my Eddie Current ZDT they blow me away.  I find the LCD-2 mids and highs a little more recessed except out of the DACmini, which fills out the mids and highs better.  So, if I compare the DACmini > LCD-2 it's fairly similar to the SR-71b > HE-500, although the HE-500 still remain a little more intimate and the LCD-2 remain a little more distant.  But with the ZDT amp I think the HE-500 pull ahead.
 

 

 

 

 

I find this post extremely interesting. Do your DACmini has the stock option of 10 Ohm output impedance? If yes, I suspect this is the reason for not driving HE-500 as well as SR-71B. Let me explain my theory:

 

As others said, HE-500 benefits from a more powerful amplifier. But is SR-71B really more powerful than DACmini?

According to DACmini specs, its output power is 0.75W at 32 Ohm.

According to SR-71B specs:

"It can swing in balanced mode more than 26V p-p."

This gives a theoretical power of 1.1W at 32 Ohm.

 

(Of course HE-500 has a little more nominal impedance (38Ohm), but the relative power difference should be the same.)

This power difference is very little, just 1.67dB. I do not think it justifies the difference on sound quality noticed by HeadphoneAddict. Even Eddie Current ZDT has 0.8W at 32 Ohms which is almost the same as DACmini.

 

But there is another technical difference that maybe justifies the perceived sound difference: output impedance. DACmini’s output impedance is 10 Ohm. SR-71b output impedance is not specified, but its single ended brother has measured output impedance less than 1 Ohm according to this . For ZDT there is no specified output impedance.

 

Small output impedances make the bass much more controlled in dynamic drivers. Of course, planar magnetic drivers are quite different in this area.

 

I do not know if someone uses a low output impedance amplifier for driving both LCD-2 and HE-500. It would be very interesting to hear their impressions on relative sound quality, but it seems to me that HE-500 greatly improves by driving it with power amplifiers with low output impedances.  

 


Edited by plin - 8/29/11 at 8:38am
post #749 of 18020

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by takezo View Post

i didn't really experience that, but i should mention that it was used

with the w4s dac2. perhaps that figures in the equation.

 

 

Very few Lambdas seem to be free of that upper midrange glare. The Lambda Pro is one, the 202 is the other. Starting from 303 and up, it gets more and more prominent. Honestly I'm not going to bother with the Lambdas anymore nowadays with this emergence of modern orthodynamics unless you're especially looking for those specific things that the Lambdas still do better ie. transients, speed and separation. Even then I don't think it's a night-and-day improvement compared to the likes of HE500, HE6 or LCD2. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post




IME, both the rev1 and rev2 are more forward/aggressive than the HE500. That's why I ultimately settled on the LCD2 for Metal, though it's not a huge difference.

 


 

Generally I find the HE500 to have a more forward midrange but its decay trails longer than the LCD2 so the attack/impact is blunted or so to speak. 

 

post #750 of 18020

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT View Post

Honestly I'm not going to bother with the Lambdas anymore nowadays with this emergence of modern orthodynamics unless you're especially looking for those specific things that the Lambdas still do better ie. transients, speed and separation. Even then I don't think it's a night-and-day improvement compared to the likes of HE500, HE6 or LCD2. 

 

Comfort & weight are also things the Lambdas do better.  I wonder if the SR-507 improves on the bass weight the vintage/lower end Lambdas lack in comparison to the HE-500, HE-6 and LCD-2.

 

Any other areas the HE & LCD-2 trio trump the Lambdas for you?  (Other than bass weight/impact?)

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