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post #7231 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

 

The only genre where the whole "micro" dynamics is important is in classical where the loudness of instruments in a section can be just as important as the tonality. I played percussion and woodwinds for a couple of years and to swing the notes correctly along with the right change in volume over a particular time is very crucial. That separates great performances from excellent ones. Also, the dynamic range of a track on average is highest in classical music.

 

I don't think that's true for any other genre as a whole. For other genres, this doesn't matter as much. Even in electronic music of all kinds, you have a bunch of channels. Increasing one or two channels by a few dB on average won't alter the recording as much as it would in a classical symphony track. Also, so much compressing now days. Although it's been getting better. More compressing on the individual channels rather than on the master. It gives more of a pop that way. 

 

Now soundstage is a whole different thing. I think it's more of a preference thing honestly. Also, it's genre and application (movies, TV shows, music, ASMR etc.) dependent.

Hi Zoom25,  thx for the pointer.  But for me, playing violin since 6 and pretty much trained in classical until my teenage years, then getting into other instruments including drums/percussion, I often refer to what you described as "dynamic".  To me, the term micro dynamic is a little exaggerated.

post #7232 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

Hi Zoom25,  thx for the pointer.  But for me, playing violin since 6 and pretty much trained in classical until my teenage years, then getting into other instruments including drums/percussion, I often refer to what you described as "dynamic".  To me, the term micro dynamic is a little exaggerated.

 

It certainly does get thrown around a lot here at head-fi.

post #7233 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

 

It certainly does get thrown around a lot here at head-fi.

 

I don't even know what a micro dynamic is lol. I'm not sure I would be able to hear it even if I read a definition.  Like dynamics only on a smaller scale? haha

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

 

I don't think there is any hype about the Emotiva. No one claims or should claim that Emotiva is the best or refined. I don't think that at all. However I do think that for $200 to drive the HE-500, it's a solid option as it doubles for bookshelf and planars. Also, it works with Audeze although volume play is not as good, but that's pretty much it. Nothing revolutionary going on with Emotiva. I myself prefer Marantz PM amps over the Emotiva.

 

There was quite a bit of hype surrounding the emotiva amp when it was first discovered as a match for the HE-500 and it's that type of talk that makes me extremely wary and dismissive of such a product.  I think what you stated is rather reasonable. I'm just jaded beerchug.gif.  Until I hear the emotiva, however, seems like a shot in the dark to me. But I guess it's only 200 and if you have speakers as well, it's definitely a nice option. I can't say I dislike the speaker factor of my taboo.  I love my speakers.

post #7234 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post

 

I don't even know what a micro dynamic is lol. I'm not sure I would be able to hear it even if I read a definition.  Like dynamics only on a smaller scale? haha

 

 

There was quite a bit of hype surrounding the emotiva amp when it was first discovered as a match for the HE-500 and it's that type of talk that makes me extremely wary and dismissive of such a product.  I think what you stated is rather reasonable. I'm just jaded beerchug.gif.  Until I hear the emotiva, however, seems like a shot in the dark to me. But I guess it's only 200 and if you have speakers as well, it's definitely a nice option. I can't say I dislike the speaker factor of my taboo.  I love my speakers.

 

LOL micro dynamics and micro detail. Maybe they mean being able to play really low volume and really high volume stuff at the same volume setting....wait, that's still dynamics though...haha I give up.

 

I got the amp last December and since then haven't seen people over exaggerate it, maybe before that. From time to time, there will definitely be hype, but it's common with all products.

 

Yeah the only reason I got the Emotiva was that I can always fall back on with speakers as they are less picky about amplification over headphones. At that price, there is Asgard, which the Emotiva apparently destroys based on the numerous impressions I read. I think this was why initially the whole Emotiva and speaker amps kind of took off. Around that time there was Lyr as well, but that's around $400-$500. Looking at the timeline, it kind of makes sense.

 

The one thing I will say about Hifiman's is that they sound really good even from crappy stuff like E10, Ipods and Sansa. Audeze's absolutely suck off crappy amps. However, with Hifiman's these can scale quite a bit, both with quality and power. I remember when I had HE-500 with Emotiva, it would be displacing some serious bass air, even more so than the Audeze's did.

 

Also, with speakers I find the Emotiva does better, especially soundstage wise.

post #7235 of 18029

Must admit I didn't think much about the term before I used it, but it is pretty much as Zoom25 described it and this was notable with my classical music collection. I was listening to a bunch of Tchaikovsky works last night on the HE-500. We had a big Tchaikovsky celebration special here in town about two weeks ago with the excellent Johannesburg Philharmonic Orchestra so most of the tracks are still fresh in my memory from that performance. I also think the term micro dynamics is probably overused, because I think sometimes people use it to describe small difference in sound quality (most equipment sound more alike, than different) between different equipment. I think micro dynamics are more apparent between different DACs than say in amplifiers. And my high frequency hearing is unfortunately not great due to a long battle with sinusitis and a few bad genes.

 

One of my favourite tracks actually for checking small details and dynamics is The Verve's Bitter Sweet Symphony. Normally one just follows the melody, but on really resolving equipment there is really a heck of lot going on in that particular song that makes it much more interesting. I've also listened to DACs where the sibilance in the vocals are apparent. Entry level DACs will gloss this over. There are places where the bass guitar gets a chance to put in a note or two in the main melody and there are a bunch of other electronic stuff and synths going on. On most systems the lead melody will always take precedence over the music and relegate everything else into the background. Another favourite is Grieg's In the Hall of the Mountain King. At the final crescendo on the record I have, there are actually two drums playing, one slightly louder than the other. On the Emotiva the second drum roll fades into obscurity, with the Myryad I could pick them apart. On Joe Bonnamassa's Django on his Live Album you can hear the crack of the guitar clearly echo off the walls with the Myryad, with the Emotiva this wasn't as notable/smeared.

 

The Emotiva has definitely been the best headphone amp I've used with the HE-500 so far. For its price it offers a lot of value and flexibility. It also scales relatively well with higher end DACs so I think for most people this is more than they'll ever need and not to mention that it is compact too. I didn't know what the HE-500 was capable of before I plugged my headphones into this amp. Every other amp I have used so far, definitely didn't utilise it as well so I still think its a great bit of kit and then of course there are the practicalities to consider of putting bulky Marantz amps on your desk.

 

Just another question/observation. It would appear to me that the damping factor of amps are more important with Hifiman headphones than just raw power output and perhaps why they sound so great on speaker amps? Just wondering about this as the Myryad amplifier has very good damping control, which is quite noticeable with the Magnepan loudspeakers I'm currently trialling at home, even though it doesn't have a lot of power.


Edited by daerron - 8/21/13 at 11:53pm
post #7236 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by daerron View Post

Must admit I didn't think much about the term before I used it, but it is pretty much as Zoom25 described it and this was notable with my classical music collection. I was listening to a bunch of Tchaikovsky works last night on the HE-500. We had a big Tchaikovsky celebration special here in town about two weeks ago with the excellent Johannesburg Philharmonic Orchestra so most of the tracks are still fresh in my memory from that performance. I also think the term micro dynamics is probably overused, because I think sometimes people use it to describe small difference in sound quality (most equipment sound more alike, than different) between different equipment. I'll probably get knocked for it, but I think it is more apparent between different DACs than say in amplifiers. And my hearing is unfortunately not great due to a long battle with sinusitis and a few bad genes.

 

One of my favourite tracks actually for checking small details and dynamics is The Verve's Bitter Sweet Symphony. Normally one just follows the melody, but on really resolving equipment there is really a heck of lot going on in that particular song that makes it much more interesting. I've also listened to DACs where the sibilance in the vocals are apparent. Entry level DACs will gloss this over. There are places where the bass guitar gets a chance to put in a note or two in the main melody and there are a bunch of other electronic stuff and synths going on. On most systems the lead melody will always take precedence over the music and relegate everything else into the background. Another favourite is Grieg's In the Hall of the Mountain King. At the final crescendo on the record I have, there are actually two drums playing, one slightly louder than the other. On the Emotiva the second drum roll fades into obscurity, with the Myryad I could pick them apart. On Joe Bonnamassa's Django on his Live Album you can hear the crack of the guitar clearly echo off the walls with the Myryad, with the Emotiva this wasn't as notable/smeared.

 

The Emotiva has definitely been the best amp I've used with the HE-500 so far. For its price it offers a lot of value and flexibility. It definitely also scales relatively well with higher end DACs so I think for most people this is more than they'll ever need and not to mention that it is compact too. I didn't know what the HE-500 was capable of before I plugged my headphones into this amp. Every other amp I have used so far, definitely didn't utilise it as well so I still think its a great bit of kit and then of course there are the practicalities to consider of putting bulky amps on your desk.

 

Just another question/observation. It would appear to me that the damping factor of amps are more important with Hifiman headphones than just raw power output and perhaps why they sound so great on speaker amps? Just wondering about this as the Myryad amplifier has very good damping control, which is quite noticeable with the Magnepan loudspeakers I'm currently trialling at home, even though it doesn't have a lot of power.

 

Well the impedance mismatch between the HE-500 and the amplifier will be purely resistive. So nothing varies with frequency with the planar magnetic design as it might with dynamics. With reserve power, your output is lower, so less distortion on that behalf. Also, better transients all the way through and proper FR. For example, with cheap speakers with one amp to power the tweeter and the woofer. At low volumes, you'll get no bass but alright treble. Although when you turn the amp up, you'll get good bass but really screechy overdriven treble. This was what I noticed with other amps like O2 and E10.

 

The best thing about HE-500 and Emotiva and even LCD-2 back when I had them was that I could get decent bass and good FR all the way through even at low volumes, which wasn't possible with other amps I tried before. Either no bass, alright treble or some bass but really energetic treble, which is bad for your haircells and thus hearing.

post #7237 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by daerron View Post

Hmmm, plugged my HE-500s into my 5 channel Myryad MX5150 power amplifier tonight just for the heck of it. Boy and does this sound a lot better than the Emotiva mini-x. The mini-x is pretty decent as far as speaker amps go, but there are definite limits to the amount of detail it can resolve. The Myryad also plays a lot cleaner with more microdynamics and sound stage definition. I was kind of worried plugging my headphones into a 150W amp, but my pre-amp gave me a surprisingly amount of flexibility on the volume control. A real pity I can't put this 40kg monster on my desk!

 

I am starting to wonder whether it is worthwhile at all to look at good headphone amplifiers for the Hifimans? I am currently considering getting a Audio-GD NFB-28 / NFB-10ES2, but for slightly more money I could get a very good Marantz KI-Pearl Lite amplifier for the price of a decent level headphone amplifier and I'm thinking I'll probably get better results out of the speaker amplifier, never mind that integrated amplifiers are a much easier sell later on.

 

 

I would certainly hope a Myryad unit beats the emotiva wink.gif. How much do those monsters cost?

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post

 

There was quite a bit of hype surrounding the emotiva amp when it was first discovered as a match for the HE-500 and it's that type of talk that makes me extremely wary and dismissive of such a product.  I think what you stated is rather reasonable. I'm just jaded beerchug.gif.  Until I hear the emotiva, however, seems like a shot in the dark to me. But I guess it's only 200 and if you have speakers as well, it's definitely a nice option. I can't say I dislike the speaker factor of my taboo.  I love my speakers.

 

 

Initially I purchased the emotiva to match with the HE-6. At the time, it was kind of shot in the dark, but I was actually very impressed with the unit. I think it eventually spread over to the HE-500s. The point of the emotiva, and the reason it's popular, is that its a great amplifier for $200. There just aren't a lot of options that really can drive the HE-6/HE-500 at the price range. It certainly isn't supposed to be a "beat all" type of amplifier where it will outperform every amplifier on the market. The HE-6 thread is full of people dropping several thousand on speaker amps, and I don't think they have said the emotiva matches those types of units. 

 

Also, keep in mind the emotiva has a 30 day return policy. So if you end up not liking it, you can return it back. I think the biggest obstacle ATM is getting a headphone jack implemented on it. 

post #7238 of 18029

My bad, looks like the Magnepan speakers have a very variable load at different frequencies so looks like a difficult speaker to control. The impedance curves of the Hifiman's are flat so it will definitely then be down to reserve power and distortion.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

 

I would certainly hope a Myryad unit beats the emotiva wink.gif. How much do those monsters cost?

 

 

I was quite lucky, I got one on clearance from a local hifi retailer at half of its retail price. Yikes, looks like those are quite expensive in the US. RRP is $5000... I paid $1800 for mine.
 

Also agree on your sentiment on the Emotiva. I'd rather keep the Emotiva amp and buy the HE-6 than going with a top dollar amplifier for the HE-500. Think I only need to find a better DAC than the PS Audio NuWave. Having had this DAC for a month or two now I'm rather disappointed in its performance.


Edited by daerron - 8/22/13 at 12:23am
post #7239 of 18029
I'm using my HE500s via speaker taps directly off my Topping TP60s and although I have nothing to compare it to apart from my Audio Gd 15.32 it does sound a hell of a lot cleaner sounding. The bass depth and extension is increased. The mids and highs sound more open and clearer. There's also more detail in the sound now. I'm using the audio Gd as a stand alone dac. I bought the TP60 in frustration because I lost out on a Tbi millenia on eBay but I'm glad I got the TP60 and I'm so happy with the sound. It's one of the best $211 I've spent in a while plus the speaker taps. I actually haven't heard anything else other than the amps I've bought which is a JDS C5, an old vintage pioneer amp and the audio Gd 15.32, but the Topping TP60 clearly trounced them all in every way. But take this recommendation with a grain of salt
Edited by spurxiii - 8/22/13 at 1:40am
post #7240 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

 

The best thing about HE-500 and Emotiva and even LCD-2 back when I had them was that I could get decent bass and good FR all the way through even at low volumes, which wasn't possible with other amps I tried before. Either no bass, alright treble or some bass but really energetic treble, which is bad for your haircells and thus hearing.

 

I've noticed that as well with some of the amps I've used, especially at low volumes the bass just kind of dies out. 

post #7241 of 18029

I really want to get a speaker amp for my HE-500, and possibly sell my x-can as well. Don't think I'll buy any hi-end dynamic headphones anyway, unless I go all in on some summit-fi stuff, and then I'll need a new amp anyway... So nothing to lose.

The topping seems fairly nice...

post #7242 of 18029
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

I really want to get a speaker amp for my HE-500, and possibly sell my x-can as well. Don't think I'll buy any hi-end dynamic headphones anyway, unless I go all in on some summit-fi stuff, and then I'll need a new amp anyway... So nothing to lose.

The topping seems fairly nice...

 

Awhile back I got to hear that topping with the HE-6 at a meet. I was very impressed with it's sound and overall form factor as well. 

post #7243 of 18029

Hi,

may I know how what DIY amps that can drive HE500? Or maybe somebody here have amps such as "The Wire" or "EHHA rev. A"

 

thanks

Nicko

post #7244 of 18029

Stacking up decently to the big boys too =p

 

 

 

Another nice thing about the Topping is that it has two inputs on the back (switchable instantly via the front button) so you can do Dacs comparison quite easily. Best £170 I've spent in a long time (sold it at little loss also, since people usually chain up t-amp for their tri-amped system).

 

Another good cheap T-amp is the Trends 10.2; but it's slightly more expensive and comes with a wall-wart.

 

 

Quote:

Hi,

may I know how what DIY amps that can drive HE500? Or maybe somebody here have amps such as "The Wire" or "EHHA rev. A"

 

thanks

Nicko

 

Try the Bottlehead S.E.X. Never heard the wire, but I'm not too impressed with the EHHA


Edited by khaine1711 - 8/22/13 at 2:22am
post #7245 of 18029
Quote:

 

Try the Bottlehead S.E.X. Never heard the wire, but I'm not too impressed with the EHHA

 

I always wanted to try the SEX. Most people have high praise for the beta 22 if you're a DIY pro. It's a pretty complex build I hear.

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