or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 385

post #5761 of 16676
Well this will be a lot to get through, but here we go:

 

1. 

 

Quote:
Hey just curious. What other amps have you compared the 337 to? Have you ever tried any speaker taps?

 

This seems like a very honest and polite question. I don't think M-13 was trying to "put you against the wall" or "discredit you". When we started hooking up the emotiva to headphones, the way to judge it was that everyone was comparing it to other amplifiers they had. It's a great way to see the value in an amplifier, and where they sit compared to others. 

 

2. Just because something is loud doesn't necessarily mean it is getting enough quality power, especially with orthodynamic headphones. Read through the few hundred pages of the HE-6 amplification thread to read more.

3. The emotiva has been compared to many different amplifiers at this point, including very powerful tube amps. In my experience it easily outperformed the Burson Soloist, which easily outperforms everything in the sub $700 range. 

 

Quote:
But i will ask u back...did u ever ever try a powerfull quality tube amp?..of the likes of decware taboo, darkvoice 337, bottlehead crack, lafigaro 339 or cavalli glass...for sure u cant honestly believe a decware or cavalli be worse then a emotiva on a he500?
Or ss amps of the like of violectric v200, musical fidelity, burson etc.

 

This is such a strange mix of amplifiers to suggest. For example the Taboo is a speaker amplifier that costs $1.8K. A cavali liquid glass is one of the best amplifiers I have ever heard. But it also runs $3.5K.

The bottlehead crack is obviously not suited for any orthodynamic driver. Most tube amplifiers are not built for low impedance headphones. It's rare to find a tube amplifier that is built for low impedance headphones and is powerful. Which naturally begs the question:

Why use the DV337 with the HE-500? The DV337 is a long running favorite among those who love their high impedance headphones, and notorious for not doing well with low impedance. 

 

4.

Quote:
 I only find it sad that so many 'budget amps owning people feel attacked that other amps could be better then the so hyped up amps they own.

 

............ I don't want to point out the obvious here, but

 

5.

Quote:
I even wanna state that some vintage mcintosch and marantz speaker amps would sweep the floor with the emotiva..and thats a fact..no one has to proof that.. wink.gif

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but needless to say, it's pretty speculative. 

post #5762 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

 

I think going to the London meet to prove yourself right will only result in one thing: you'll prove yourself right. It's called expectation bias, and those meets are loud.

 

 

The mind is a powerful thing isn't it?

post #5763 of 16676

I have the lyr with the he 500 and I find it is a good sounding combo. but with my 3 channel b22, the he 500 has amazing sound. I prefer it to the lyr sound by a long shot, even if the lyr has close to 700 bucks worth of tubes in it.  b22 and he 500 is a very good match. plenty of power and amazing sound. b22 gives a very powerful and deep bass to he 500. very impactful and tight and very controlled. very sweet mids and very nice top end. soundstage is quite big too with b22. I prefer it to the soundstage of my hd 800 too. makes the he 500 a very euphonic pair of headphones. especially with trance and psytrance music.

 

if you have he 500 and can find a good deal on a used beta22. grab it.  I got mine used from the first buyer at a very nice price in perfect condition.

 

the b22 has been a great amplifier with all my headphones, but I feel it matches incredibly well with he 500. it also matches very well with he 6 but lacks a bit of power. if it had more power it would be a killer amp with he 6.

 

I am always in awe of the bass of the he 500 on the beta22. so big, bold and beautiful. makes incredible bass with hd 800 too. but most impressive with he 500.

 

of all my audio gear my b22 has been my greatest bargain along my he 500. this combo made me an ortho lover.

post #5764 of 16676

All this talk of mega powerful amps has got me on a bit of a downer on my incoming HE-500 and existing AudioGD Compass 2. Upgrading from the HE400, is this justified or merely a case of "Head-Fi-Itis"?

post #5765 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

1. 


This seems like a very honest and polite question. I don't think M-13 was trying to "put you against the wall" or "discredit you". When we started hooking up the emotiva to headphones, the way to judge it was that everyone was comparing it to other amplifiers they had. It's a great way to see the value in an amplifier, and where they sit compared to others. 

2. Just because something is loud doesn't necessarily mean it is getting enough quality power, especially with orthodynamic headphones. Read through the few hundred pages of the HE-6 amplification thread to read more.
3. The emotiva has been compared to many different amplifiers at this point, including very powerful tube amps. In my experience it easily outperformed the Burson Soloist, which easily outperforms everything in the sub $700 range. 


This is such a strange mix of amplifiers to suggest. For example the Taboo is a speaker amplifier that costs $1.8K. A cavali liquid glass is one of the best amplifiers I have ever heard. But it also runs $3.5K.
The bottlehead crack is obviously not suited for any orthodynamic driver. Most tube amplifiers are not built for low impedance headphones. It's rare to find a tube amplifier that is built for low impedance headphones and is powerful. Which naturally begs the question:
Why use the DV337 with the HE-500? The DV337 is a long running favorite among those who love their high impedance headphones, and notorious for not doing well with low impedance. 


4.

............ I don't want to point out the obvious here, but

5.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but needless to say, it's pretty speculative. 

1. I answered it in my long post wink.gif
2. Read my reply completely...in short...it sounds good. But ofcourse it can always be better! Volume was just as example..i know the volume doesnt mean the amp give adequate current..
3.ur right..most tube amps are helpless with orthodynamics..only a few i know of can do it..one being the 337 or 339...and some wooaudio amps

But funny part here is..every one here probably never ever ever tried a 337 or a 339..or even seen one... But speculate its no good from the start up...only one person i know of here on the he500 thread,except for me..has a 339..sold it and he now owns a decware i understand.... And am not trying to sell the 337 or 339... Thats why i also mention other brands...but with the 337 i have proof (to my ears) the 337 with the right (expensive tubes) can drive the he500 to a very high standard in soundquality..

.but i am happy that i soon wont need to defend my 337 anymore..as it will be sold in oktober..as in november my endgame amp (probably) comes in.. wink.gif..being on a complete different level...soundwise..

Ps..ur right about one thing..the best pair ever with the 337 is the hd650... I listened to this pairing at a friends house..took my amp to him...and its only because i already had my he500.. Or else it maybe could be a hd650... wink.gif

But from now on i will be more relaxed on reacting on this thread...as 337 tends to be the devil numbers around here... If u only knew how for instance Meatloaf sounds like on this rig (that song on which he talks about breaking down a stratocaster on somebodies head..and that heartbeat going faster and faster..and those raw outburst..just shivering! ) biggrin.gif

I think also many people concentrate on the amp..as the source and cabling can also be very important in the outcoming soundquality...its the complete picture that can make a rig sound acceptable or very good...but again..probably it was better not mentioning cabling here as important also.biggrin.gif

Friends again? tongue.gif
post #5766 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPluck View Post

All this talk of mega powerful amps has got me on a bit of a downer on my incoming HE-500 and existing AudioGD Compass 2. Upgrading from the HE400, is this justified or merely a case of "Head-Fi-Itis"?

Nah, I think you're fine. The Compass 2 should keep you happy for a while. If you notice bass flab you know where to turn to. If you don't notice flab, then you might be alright. The Compass 2 still does 3 Watts and is a current drive design, it's not exactly a Fiio E17. evil_smiley.gif

post #5767 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPluck View Post

All this talk of mega powerful amps has got me on a bit of a downer on my incoming HE-500 and existing AudioGD Compass 2. Upgrading from the HE400, is this justified or merely a case of "Head-Fi-Itis"?

 

Um 2W @ 50 ohms? That's definitely enough power. The Compass is built for low impedance headphones. A lot of the newer Audio-GD gear focuses on lower impedance headphones. 

 

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass2EN_Specs.htm

 

 

Will you get a little more performance out of a speaker amp? Yup. Necessary? Nope

post #5768 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Hey hifimanrookie,

Wow you gave super long answer to my question, but didn't get into specifics about why you found the 337 superior to Burson/Schiit, etc...

The Cavalli Liquid Glass puts out 6 Watts into 50R, so that's almost as powerful as the Emotiva. The Liquid Gold puts out 9W so that's definitley in Emotvia territory.

My only Tube experience is with the hybrid Lyr (Owned it for over a year and really got into some tube rolling). This is why I feel comfortable trashing it, but I can never say the Emotiva is better than (Cavalli, 337, or any other amp that I haven't tried)

As for genius guitar players, musicians, etc... honestly they wouldn't know whether a HE-500 was being driven properly or not. Evaluating headphones is not the same as evaluating music. I know it sounds weird, but they're not really related. Emotiva isn't magic, I'm sure it sucks compared to a lot of other quality speaker amps, including a lot of vintage amps. What it does is it gives you the minimum power requirement to enjoy the HE-500 while having pretty good transparency and a neutral tonality. The transparency could be better obviously and you won't find any lushness you find with tubes. It'll be that precise cold solid-state sound, but it's not really colored in anyway as long as your DAC isn't colored either.

I think going to the London meet to prove yourself right will only result in one thing: you'll prove yourself right. It's called expectation bias, and those meets are loud.
I'm sure you know somebody a friend/cousin/uncle that has a speaker amp/receiver in their home. Go plug in your HE-500 to the speaker taps and take some time to evaulate it in a quiet enviornment fairly.

Anyway, let me know if you want to do an amp swap. I can alway ship you my Emotiva for your 337. (I promise to ship it back wink.gif
)
I never said it was superior...i said i heard them..and yeah it sounded better then the burson ha160, shiit lyr, violectric v800... There was an agent of hifiman stuff who was sending his potential customers of he500/400 to my table to try them out...if they were not complety satisfied with how the hifiman's sounded on his amps...am not kidding! And he was selling burson and musical fidelity as well!!! So something was right in my rig..the hd800 sounded awefull on my amp..and the audezes were also not on their best..and the he6 ..well..u know the answer on that..not enough current...one customer even said it made him have tears in his eyes of emotion listening to certain music on my rig..with a he500...not mine..it had norse audio cabling..he even wrote that in a post here on headfi on that particular thread of that meet...
The lyr had deeper more impactfull bass though!

And as i said..i am looking for a good budget amp for my second rig in my study...next year i will be buying a he6 to complement my new amp..so my he500 will be used in my study then....

I wont listen to the emotiva with negative feelings..i am blank on that..just out of curiosity i will compare it to my 337.. Which is going to be on sale on that meeting..so whether its better sounding or not..i will be happy with any outcome..am not biased....as i will buy the emotiva anyway probably after hearing it...as the 337 is a big beast..and very sensitive to everything...and the emotiva looks pretty sturdy.

And i am sure the next owner of my 337 will probably be a hd650 owner or a he500 owner..as with other phones it isnt the best pair. I am sure the emotiva pairs with more different cans...
Edited by hifimanrookie - 6/28/13 at 4:05pm
post #5769 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

ur right..most tube amps are helpless with orthodynamics..only a few i know of can do it..one being the 337 or 339...and some wooaudio amps

337 tends to be the devil numbers around here.

 

Hah! We were always friends. Discussion and critiquing of amplifiers and headphones shouldn't ever breach friendships, and my wasn't intended that way. 

 

 

Just a few things here. There are a smaller number of tube amplifiers that are coming out that could do well with low impedance headphones.  That's not saying you could plug the HE-500 into a bottlehead crack, but the impedance difference doesn't allow the HE-500 to perform optimally. The same with the 337, which is designed for higher impedance headphones.  I have never found the woo audio amplifiers to do well with price/performance. 

 

I don't think the 337 is a devil number, but just isn't that popular of an amplifier. In fact, I think you're the only member who's active and has one. 

post #5770 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Exactly as dutch..the amount of exeptions in gramar are just mindblowing big..i pity foreigners who want to learn my native language... biggrin.gif but hey..german is same thing...and i. Speak that too among portuguese. biggrin.gif

"Bleses researched how children in seven different cultures acquire their native languages. Of the seven – Danish, Swedish, Dutch, French, American English, Croatian and Galician – she found that Danish was the most difficult for children to learn."

http://cphpost.dk/culture/quotdanskquot/danish-languages-irritable-vowel-syndrome

post #5771 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Nah, I think you're fine. The Compass 2 should keep you happy for a while. If you notice bass flab you know where to turn to. If you don't notice flab, then you might be alright. The Compass 2 still does 3 Watts and is a current drive design, it's not exactly a Fiio E17. evil_smiley.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

Um 2W @ 50 ohms? That's definitely enough power. The Compass is built for low impedance headphones. A lot of the newer Audio-GD gear focuses on lower impedance headphones. 

 

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass2EN_Specs.htm

 

 

Will you get a little more performance out of a speaker amp? Yup. Necessary? Nope

 

Thanks for the reassurance guys.

post #5772 of 16676

I'm almost scared of how good compressed audio can sound. Ogg 112 kbit, and I felt pressed when ABX'ing with the flac file! Will maybe try some other time with different songs and bitrate so on so forth...

post #5773 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

Hah! We were always friends. Discussion and critiquing of amplifiers and headphones shouldn't ever breach friendships, and my wasn't intended that way. 


Just a few things here. There are a smaller number of tube amplifiers that are coming out that could do well with low impedance headphones.  That's not saying you could plug the HE-500 into a bottlehead crack, but the impedance difference doesn't allow the HE-500 to perform optimally. The same with the 337, which is designed for higher impedance headphones.  I have never found the woo audio amplifiers to do well with price/performance. 

I don't think the 337 is a devil number, but just isn't that popular of an amplifier. In fact, I think you're the only member who's active and has one. 
wink.gif i understand what u mean about the tube amps and their contruction restrictions...
Damn..if the 337 is nit optimally driving the he500.... Then good lord..my new amp will put me in a trance of pure bliss then..as it will be a solid state amp. biggrin.gif

And ur right..friendships are for being open to each other and being not afraid to be honest of what we think or feel....

And about u saying that i am the only one active 337 owner..ur maybe right...i checked the 339 thread..and so far..i am the only one with a 337 posting there..the rest has a lafigaro 339...and those posters u can count on two hands.. Damn i am of a dying race.... And i checked owners of blue circle audio products to be sure..of those are even less biggrin.gif

soon i have no backup or likewise soulmates anymore..i will be all alone in the headfi universe ...have pity on me..and buy a blue circle audio product also..that way i wont be feeling alone then biggrin.gif
Okay..i then just have to buy a emotiva then..even if its just to feel connected then biggrin.gif
post #5774 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

So you bought a E9K?

 

How do you like the improvements over the E17 alone? Can you hear a difference with Moar power? evil_smiley.gif


@M-13,

Ah did not read your post carefully.  From the E17 to the E9K, about 30% or so improvement according to my bad ears.  :)

Then yesterday, I tried out an audio-gd which had way more pwr in comparison to the E9K.  I was not very impressed with the overall sound but for the first time, I/my ear drums physically could feel the air/drivers move in the HE500 when the low freqs hit.  So this morning, I decided to get the Mini-x just to test it out and see for myself how much of an improvement this much pwr will give the HE500.  For $189, I can call it an experiment biggrin.gif but I can sort of guess already what the result will be judging from my brief time with the audio-gd's pwr.  The Mini-x can only be more.

 

I'll let you guys know by next Saturday.  The Emotiva is coming on Friday.


Edited by koiloco - 6/28/13 at 9:25pm
post #5775 of 16676
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

lolz....well...check a darkv 33..couch..couch...lafi 33..couch couch....ly..couch couch...decwa couch couch .... i cant say those names outloud here..or else i could be cruzified biggrin.gif

or try the emotiva...yep..that name i can mention without being dismembered or something like that.... wink.gif

 

but in my opinion....and i am probably opening a BIG can of worms here again: pls invest some good money on ur amp and dac and use high quality lossless music (flac,wav,  sacd etc.).... the he500 needs a good amp and sources...and it deserves it!!! its a wonderfull can!!..and it will shine when u do!...

 

and am also not talking about multi watts of amping here!..as the headphone amp which was specificaly designed for the most powerhungry headphone at this moment, he6, Hifiman own EF6, 'only'  has 5 watts at 50ohm (1600 usd!)...so any more  watts would be overkill. they make those 2 headphones..so i guess they know best what amping is sufficient to drive their headphones to their limits of soundquality... hifman isnt the brand to overprice their products...so if u have to pay premium for a EF6 acording to hifiman then i guess u have to pay premium to get the utmost out of ur he6....or ur he500...the he500 'only' needs 1 watt at 50 ohm to sound on its best...

 

but as i said before...power is nothiing without control..some amps deliver huge amount of watts and cost almost nothing...that low price has to come somewhere..no one sells products without profit... for me..i prefer detail and warmth above big bass..something those big power budget amps deliver...and people who want that i respect completely...and i also know people dont have multi 1000 usd to spend on their rig..and i also know that some 'high end' priced components dont deserve the name high end...

 

most of the 'negatives' which is mentioned here about the he500 dont exist on my rig...okay except for a bit lesser soundstage compared to a hd800 or the audezes (mr. fang angled drivers and angled connectors pls! biggrin.gif).... for me the he500 is a very balanced headphone...

 

...i have to admit..when i got the he500 at first...it wasnt really what i expected for 700euro...but it only really became to shine when i got my new (tung sol 5998) tubes and my new cables (power and headphone)..

 

GUYS and GIRLS....this could be an endgame rig for many of us music listening lovers...but for some (like me) its a starting point to the bleeding wallet and u spending a huge amount of money for a better rig. so be careful for what ur getting in... very_evil_smiley.gif

 

but most important..in the end...its all about personal taste, ur budget and how far u wanna go to get the best ur headphone can deliver u...

i have no idea what you just said. i probably will love the he500 if the weight is not such an issue. I don't know why you didn't get that I no longer have it yet you assume I still have the lyr and want to sell it. 

 

I have the lyr and love it never will sell it. There is nothing wrong with the lyr and it's a worker. I am rocking some telefunken/orange globe/gold lion/matsu****a tubes in there and I prefer my fidelio x1 that I just got over the he500 with some jj e88cc tubes that I had back when I owned the he500.

 

I have decided that planars are not for me, although people make it sound like if you have a lyr then a planar is a must have. Well, I can't stand the way it presents music, I prefer dynamic cans way more, probably because I have a ton of them. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. .