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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 385

post #5761 of 14162

Do I see a group hug coming?

 

@hifimanrookie,  I am in the US and have been curious about the emotiva so I just ordered one to see.  I've been down this road before using high end pro-audio amps for home theater but I am willing to give this a try, especially $189 shipped, no tax.  Heck, it costs me more than that just taking the wife and my boys out to dinner these days.

But yes, I am intrigued by the price point too but sometimes, very rarely sometimes, we might be lucky enough to get a miracle matching.  This potential, while being skeptical, I won't dismiss just yet.  I'll find out in 1 week.  :)

post #5762 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

Do I see a group hug coming?

@hifimanrookie,  I am in the US and have been curious about the emotiva so I just ordered one to see.  I've been down this road before using high end pro-audio amps for home theater but I am willing to give this a try, especially $189 shipped, no tax.  Heck, it costs me more than that just taking the wife and my boys out to dinner these days.
But yes, I am intrigued by the price point too but sometimes, very rarely sometimes, we might be lucky enough to get a miracle matching.  This potential, while being skeptical, I won't dismiss just yet.  I'll find out in 1 week.  smily_headphones1.gif
Iagree with u... Thats why i am going to listen to one in oktober..and if its as good as they say..i will for sure buy one the next day for my second rig.... wink.gif its indeed that affordable..having a trip to antwerp with my family and the outrageous high gas prices (ron98 or 100 for my car) here in europe would be even more expensive... Even with postage...

Grouphug? I am in biggrin.gif
Edited by hifimanrookie - 6/28/13 at 1:04pm
post #5763 of 14162

Hey hifimanrookie,

 

Wow you gave super long answer to my question, but didn't get into specifics about why you found the 337 superior to Burson/Schiit, etc...

 

The Cavalli Liquid Glass puts out 6 Watts into 50R, so that's almost as powerful as the Emotiva. The Liquid Gold puts out 9W so that's definitley in Emotvia territory.

 

My only Tube experience is with the hybrid Lyr (Owned it for over a year and really got into some tube rolling). This is why I feel comfortable trashing it, but I can never say the Emotiva is better than (Cavalli, 337, or any other amp that I haven't tried)

 

As for genius guitar players, musicians, etc... honestly they wouldn't know whether a HE-500 was being driven properly or not. Evaluating headphones is not the same as evaluating music. I know it sounds weird, but they're not really related. Emotiva isn't magic, I'm sure it sucks compared to a lot of other quality speaker amps, including a lot of vintage amps. What it does is it gives you the minimum power requirement to enjoy the HE-500 while having pretty good transparency and a neutral tonality. The transparency could be better obviously and you won't find any lushness you find with tubes. It'll be that precise cold solid-state sound, but it's not really colored in anyway as long as your DAC isn't colored either.

 

I think going to the London meet to prove yourself right will only result in one thing: you'll prove yourself right. It's called expectation bias, and those meets are loud.

I'm sure you know somebody a friend/cousin/uncle that has a speaker amp/receiver in their home. Go plug in your HE-500 to the speaker taps and take some time to evaulate it in a quiet enviornment fairly.

 

Anyway, let me know if you want to do an amp swap. I can alway ship you my Emotiva for your 337. (I promise to ship it back wink.gif)

post #5764 of 14162

OMG, this thread! is tempting me to get my hands on emotiva. The discounted price is tempting also.

post #5765 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

Darn, I love the voice of the gal from Emotiva who just called me to confirm shipping address.biggrin.gif

 

I am doing this out of curiosity just to see how much of an improvement the Mini-x will be in comparison to the little Fiio E9K.

I tried the HE500 on a pretty powerful audio-gd yesterday but wasn't impressed.  If the Mini-X turns out to be good, it will be a $200 saving from not gettin the Lyr.

Let's wait and see ...
 

So you bought a E9K?

 

How do you like the improvements over the E17 alone? Can you hear a difference with Moar power? evil_smiley.gif

post #5766 of 14162
Well this will be a lot to get through, but here we go:

 

1. 

 

Quote:
Hey just curious. What other amps have you compared the 337 to? Have you ever tried any speaker taps?

 

This seems like a very honest and polite question. I don't think M-13 was trying to "put you against the wall" or "discredit you". When we started hooking up the emotiva to headphones, the way to judge it was that everyone was comparing it to other amplifiers they had. It's a great way to see the value in an amplifier, and where they sit compared to others. 

 

2. Just because something is loud doesn't necessarily mean it is getting enough quality power, especially with orthodynamic headphones. Read through the few hundred pages of the HE-6 amplification thread to read more.

3. The emotiva has been compared to many different amplifiers at this point, including very powerful tube amps. In my experience it easily outperformed the Burson Soloist, which easily outperforms everything in the sub $700 range. 

 

Quote:
But i will ask u back...did u ever ever try a powerfull quality tube amp?..of the likes of decware taboo, darkvoice 337, bottlehead crack, lafigaro 339 or cavalli glass...for sure u cant honestly believe a decware or cavalli be worse then a emotiva on a he500?
Or ss amps of the like of violectric v200, musical fidelity, burson etc.

 

This is such a strange mix of amplifiers to suggest. For example the Taboo is a speaker amplifier that costs $1.8K. A cavali liquid glass is one of the best amplifiers I have ever heard. But it also runs $3.5K.

The bottlehead crack is obviously not suited for any orthodynamic driver. Most tube amplifiers are not built for low impedance headphones. It's rare to find a tube amplifier that is built for low impedance headphones and is powerful. Which naturally begs the question:

Why use the DV337 with the HE-500? The DV337 is a long running favorite among those who love their high impedance headphones, and notorious for not doing well with low impedance. 

 

4.

Quote:
 I only find it sad that so many 'budget amps owning people feel attacked that other amps could be better then the so hyped up amps they own.

 

............ I don't want to point out the obvious here, but

 

5.

Quote:
I even wanna state that some vintage mcintosch and marantz speaker amps would sweep the floor with the emotiva..and thats a fact..no one has to proof that.. wink.gif

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but needless to say, it's pretty speculative. 

post #5767 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

 

I think going to the London meet to prove yourself right will only result in one thing: you'll prove yourself right. It's called expectation bias, and those meets are loud.

 

 

The mind is a powerful thing isn't it?

post #5768 of 14162

I have the lyr with the he 500 and I find it is a good sounding combo. but with my 3 channel b22, the he 500 has amazing sound. I prefer it to the lyr sound by a long shot, even if the lyr has close to 700 bucks worth of tubes in it.  b22 and he 500 is a very good match. plenty of power and amazing sound. b22 gives a very powerful and deep bass to he 500. very impactful and tight and very controlled. very sweet mids and very nice top end. soundstage is quite big too with b22. I prefer it to the soundstage of my hd 800 too. makes the he 500 a very euphonic pair of headphones. especially with trance and psytrance music.

 

if you have he 500 and can find a good deal on a used beta22. grab it.  I got mine used from the first buyer at a very nice price in perfect condition.

 

the b22 has been a great amplifier with all my headphones, but I feel it matches incredibly well with he 500. it also matches very well with he 6 but lacks a bit of power. if it had more power it would be a killer amp with he 6.

 

I am always in awe of the bass of the he 500 on the beta22. so big, bold and beautiful. makes incredible bass with hd 800 too. but most impressive with he 500.

 

of all my audio gear my b22 has been my greatest bargain along my he 500. this combo made me an ortho lover.

post #5769 of 14162

All this talk of mega powerful amps has got me on a bit of a downer on my incoming HE-500 and existing AudioGD Compass 2. Upgrading from the HE400, is this justified or merely a case of "Head-Fi-Itis"?

post #5770 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

1. 


This seems like a very honest and polite question. I don't think M-13 was trying to "put you against the wall" or "discredit you". When we started hooking up the emotiva to headphones, the way to judge it was that everyone was comparing it to other amplifiers they had. It's a great way to see the value in an amplifier, and where they sit compared to others. 

2. Just because something is loud doesn't necessarily mean it is getting enough quality power, especially with orthodynamic headphones. Read through the few hundred pages of the HE-6 amplification thread to read more.
3. The emotiva has been compared to many different amplifiers at this point, including very powerful tube amps. In my experience it easily outperformed the Burson Soloist, which easily outperforms everything in the sub $700 range. 


This is such a strange mix of amplifiers to suggest. For example the Taboo is a speaker amplifier that costs $1.8K. A cavali liquid glass is one of the best amplifiers I have ever heard. But it also runs $3.5K.
The bottlehead crack is obviously not suited for any orthodynamic driver. Most tube amplifiers are not built for low impedance headphones. It's rare to find a tube amplifier that is built for low impedance headphones and is powerful. Which naturally begs the question:
Why use the DV337 with the HE-500? The DV337 is a long running favorite among those who love their high impedance headphones, and notorious for not doing well with low impedance. 


4.

............ I don't want to point out the obvious here, but

5.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but needless to say, it's pretty speculative. 

1. I answered it in my long post wink.gif
2. Read my reply completely...in short...it sounds good. But ofcourse it can always be better! Volume was just as example..i know the volume doesnt mean the amp give adequate current..
3.ur right..most tube amps are helpless with orthodynamics..only a few i know of can do it..one being the 337 or 339...and some wooaudio amps

But funny part here is..every one here probably never ever ever tried a 337 or a 339..or even seen one... But speculate its no good from the start up...only one person i know of here on the he500 thread,except for me..has a 339..sold it and he now owns a decware i understand.... And am not trying to sell the 337 or 339... Thats why i also mention other brands...but with the 337 i have proof (to my ears) the 337 with the right (expensive tubes) can drive the he500 to a very high standard in soundquality..

.but i am happy that i soon wont need to defend my 337 anymore..as it will be sold in oktober..as in november my endgame amp (probably) comes in.. wink.gif..being on a complete different level...soundwise..

Ps..ur right about one thing..the best pair ever with the 337 is the hd650... I listened to this pairing at a friends house..took my amp to him...and its only because i already had my he500.. Or else it maybe could be a hd650... wink.gif

But from now on i will be more relaxed on reacting on this thread...as 337 tends to be the devil numbers around here... If u only knew how for instance Meatloaf sounds like on this rig (that song on which he talks about breaking down a stratocaster on somebodies head..and that heartbeat going faster and faster..and those raw outburst..just shivering! ) biggrin.gif

I think also many people concentrate on the amp..as the source and cabling can also be very important in the outcoming soundquality...its the complete picture that can make a rig sound acceptable or very good...but again..probably it was better not mentioning cabling here as important also.biggrin.gif

Friends again? tongue.gif
post #5771 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPluck View Post

All this talk of mega powerful amps has got me on a bit of a downer on my incoming HE-500 and existing AudioGD Compass 2. Upgrading from the HE400, is this justified or merely a case of "Head-Fi-Itis"?

Nah, I think you're fine. The Compass 2 should keep you happy for a while. If you notice bass flab you know where to turn to. If you don't notice flab, then you might be alright. The Compass 2 still does 3 Watts and is a current drive design, it's not exactly a Fiio E17. evil_smiley.gif

post #5772 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPluck View Post

All this talk of mega powerful amps has got me on a bit of a downer on my incoming HE-500 and existing AudioGD Compass 2. Upgrading from the HE400, is this justified or merely a case of "Head-Fi-Itis"?

 

Um 2W @ 50 ohms? That's definitely enough power. The Compass is built for low impedance headphones. A lot of the newer Audio-GD gear focuses on lower impedance headphones. 

 

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass2EN_Specs.htm

 

 

Will you get a little more performance out of a speaker amp? Yup. Necessary? Nope

post #5773 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Hey hifimanrookie,

Wow you gave super long answer to my question, but didn't get into specifics about why you found the 337 superior to Burson/Schiit, etc...

The Cavalli Liquid Glass puts out 6 Watts into 50R, so that's almost as powerful as the Emotiva. The Liquid Gold puts out 9W so that's definitley in Emotvia territory.

My only Tube experience is with the hybrid Lyr (Owned it for over a year and really got into some tube rolling). This is why I feel comfortable trashing it, but I can never say the Emotiva is better than (Cavalli, 337, or any other amp that I haven't tried)

As for genius guitar players, musicians, etc... honestly they wouldn't know whether a HE-500 was being driven properly or not. Evaluating headphones is not the same as evaluating music. I know it sounds weird, but they're not really related. Emotiva isn't magic, I'm sure it sucks compared to a lot of other quality speaker amps, including a lot of vintage amps. What it does is it gives you the minimum power requirement to enjoy the HE-500 while having pretty good transparency and a neutral tonality. The transparency could be better obviously and you won't find any lushness you find with tubes. It'll be that precise cold solid-state sound, but it's not really colored in anyway as long as your DAC isn't colored either.

I think going to the London meet to prove yourself right will only result in one thing: you'll prove yourself right. It's called expectation bias, and those meets are loud.
I'm sure you know somebody a friend/cousin/uncle that has a speaker amp/receiver in their home. Go plug in your HE-500 to the speaker taps and take some time to evaulate it in a quiet enviornment fairly.

Anyway, let me know if you want to do an amp swap. I can alway ship you my Emotiva for your 337. (I promise to ship it back wink.gif
)
I never said it was superior...i said i heard them..and yeah it sounded better then the burson ha160, shiit lyr, violectric v800... There was an agent of hifiman stuff who was sending his potential customers of he500/400 to my table to try them out...if they were not complety satisfied with how the hifiman's sounded on his amps...am not kidding! And he was selling burson and musical fidelity as well!!! So something was right in my rig..the hd800 sounded awefull on my amp..and the audezes were also not on their best..and the he6 ..well..u know the answer on that..not enough current...one customer even said it made him have tears in his eyes of emotion listening to certain music on my rig..with a he500...not mine..it had norse audio cabling..he even wrote that in a post here on headfi on that particular thread of that meet...
The lyr had deeper more impactfull bass though!

And as i said..i am looking for a good budget amp for my second rig in my study...next year i will be buying a he6 to complement my new amp..so my he500 will be used in my study then....

I wont listen to the emotiva with negative feelings..i am blank on that..just out of curiosity i will compare it to my 337.. Which is going to be on sale on that meeting..so whether its better sounding or not..i will be happy with any outcome..am not biased....as i will buy the emotiva anyway probably after hearing it...as the 337 is a big beast..and very sensitive to everything...and the emotiva looks pretty sturdy.

And i am sure the next owner of my 337 will probably be a hd650 owner or a he500 owner..as with other phones it isnt the best pair. I am sure the emotiva pairs with more different cans...
Edited by hifimanrookie - 6/28/13 at 4:05pm
post #5774 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

ur right..most tube amps are helpless with orthodynamics..only a few i know of can do it..one being the 337 or 339...and some wooaudio amps

337 tends to be the devil numbers around here.

 

Hah! We were always friends. Discussion and critiquing of amplifiers and headphones shouldn't ever breach friendships, and my wasn't intended that way. 

 

 

Just a few things here. There are a smaller number of tube amplifiers that are coming out that could do well with low impedance headphones.  That's not saying you could plug the HE-500 into a bottlehead crack, but the impedance difference doesn't allow the HE-500 to perform optimally. The same with the 337, which is designed for higher impedance headphones.  I have never found the woo audio amplifiers to do well with price/performance. 

 

I don't think the 337 is a devil number, but just isn't that popular of an amplifier. In fact, I think you're the only member who's active and has one. 

post #5775 of 14162
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Exactly as dutch..the amount of exeptions in gramar are just mindblowing big..i pity foreigners who want to learn my native language... biggrin.gif but hey..german is same thing...and i. Speak that too among portuguese. biggrin.gif

"Bleses researched how children in seven different cultures acquire their native languages. Of the seven – Danish, Swedish, Dutch, French, American English, Croatian and Galician – she found that Danish was the most difficult for children to learn."

http://cphpost.dk/culture/quotdanskquot/danish-languages-irritable-vowel-syndrome

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