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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 353

post #5281 of 18078

plus some reading elsewhere it seems like the consensus leads towards tube amp;

 

audio gd (too many models, which one?)

la figaro 339 - the price is a little steep, what about their cheaper siblings?

hifiman ef-5 - mixed reaction so far, would like to hear more from he500+ ef5 users

 

skeptical choice:

magni/modi combo - some people say it's not good enough? and my home uses the UK plug, will that be a problem if i use a cheap adapter instead?

emotiva mini x-100

 

just help a fellow internet friend here and i wont annoy with these questions again :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by i019791 View Post

If you can consider dac+amp combos, you are unlikely to make a mistake by getting a budget Audio gd, i.e.

NFB-15.32 or

NFB-11.32 or

Compass 2 (384)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Not all lafigaro or darkvoice amps do well...Only the darkvoice 337 (latest batches!) and the lafigaro 339 match perfectly well with the he500...but u have to be prepared to invest in some tuberolling as well to find the right tubes for u...and in my opinion investing in two high quality powercables doesnt hurt either! biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

IMO?

 

Just get a Schiit Magni. or the Emotiva min-X. BTW the Emotiva mini-X is on sale for $189 right now. beerchug.gif

 

 

Soundstage/imaging wise, they would get crushed by the HD800. Even the HD650 has a wider soundstage.

post #5282 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

beerchug.gif

 

The important thing to take away with these %s are the relative amounts. E.g. low depth compared to width in HE500's soundstage, extremely narrow but deep soundstage orientation with LCD2, low HE500 / LCD2 soundstage sizes in general compared to real life, and larger-than-life soundstage with HD800; all of them due to driver differences (type, angling, distance from ears, pads, damping).

now seriously, the headstage is good, not large but good.

the amplifier help.

next week try denon pads(with angle)

post #5283 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by krussster View Post

plus some reading elsewhere it seems like the consensus leads towards tube amp;

 

audio gd (too many models, which one?)

la figaro 339 - the price is a little steep, what about their cheaper siblings?

hifiman ef-5 - mixed reaction so far, would like to hear more from he500+ ef5 users

 

skeptical choice:

magni/modi combo - some people say it's not good enough? and my home uses the UK plug, will that be a problem if i use a cheap adapter instead?

emotiva mini x-100

 

just help a fellow internet friend here and i wont annoy with these questions again :)

 

 

 

I would not specifically suggest a tube amp. I would suggest a good one. Solid state or tube is up to you. Good tube amps do not have a tubey sound.  The V200 for example seems to be a wonderful pairing. I know there are others. No reason to limit your choices but it really depends on what you want. I find the taboo has a very clean, sharp, dynamic sound with great microdetail. Most of the SS amps I've used sound very sterile compared to the decware, but at the same time not any warmer or darker. This I've attributed to those SS amps being cheaper ones.

 

From my experience with the HE-500, dynamics and clarity are the two most beneficial qualities an amp can bring you to help your HE-500 get that extra boost.  Ofc with that, you need a quality source too :)

 

The HE-500 is definitely not a picky headphone and that's why it can get along just fine with any setup, but with a quality source/amplification you will be surprised the details that come out. This is the reason the HE-500 rivals the LCD and other top headphones, not because it sounds okay out of an O2.  That being said it's price is just right to pick up and then upgrade your chain later.  As I previously said if you aren't planning on spending some money on your chain it's probably not really worth it to get the HE-500.

 

LaFigaro - I only heard negative things about this pairing until hifimanrookie started praising it so I would be careful. It seems like a journey to get this amp to pair well and might require a bit of rolling. This is only really praised by him and I'm not tryign to discredit him but I don't think it's safe to say you will be satisfied since there aren't a lot of opinions out there about this pairing.  He will tell you with the right tubes it will sound wonderful. There are probably just as good of options that dont require as much tube rolling. He also agrees with me that you should probably spend at least 700$ on a source+amp combined to make the HE-500 sound reasonable.

 

Magni/Modi - Well I haven't used these, but I owned the Asgard/Bifrost for some months and well... I think the bifrost is barely cutting it, and the asgard sounded a little thin and lacked dynamics to my ears. I'd only expect less than that from the magni/modi.  I actually preferred my little dot MK2 over the asgard at that time even though it lost a bit of detail and air.

 

Hifiman EF5 - Built in DAC is not so great from what I hear. People report it's overly tubey and generally speaking this amp is probably fine for its price point but I dont really hear anyone extremely pleased or unhappy with it.

 

Emotiva - no.... I dont think I could recommend this.  People are satisfied but if you dont like your he-500 then you are left with a speaker amp.  That kind of sucks. I guess you could get speakers :P

 

 

If you are looking for something around the 300$ price range there's not a whole lot of options there in terms of making the HE-500 sound the way it was imagined to sound.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here's a few gears that I would look into.

 

Woo WA7

CEntrance DacMini

http://www.headfonia.com/meier-audio-concerto-and-stagedac/

ALO Pan Am

Apex Butte

violectric V200

 

I'm sure someone can suggest more gear but those are what I would go with.  Other people will recommend the lyr/bifrost which I dont really mind but not a fan of personally.

 

For Audio GD, I believe most people use the NFB 10. I know nothing about this product.

 

 

OFC if you have no money but want to upgrade eventually I think something along the lines of the O2 is just right until you can make a bigger purchase(~1k USD).

post #5284 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post

I would not specifically suggest a tube amp. I would suggest a good one. Solid state or tube is up to you. Good tube amps do not have a tubey sound.  The V200 for example seems to be a wonderful pairing. I know there are others. No reason to limit your choices but it really depends on what you want. I find the taboo has a very clean, sharp, dynamic sound with great microdetail. Most of the SS amps I've used sound very sterile compared to the decware, but at the same time not any warmer or darker. This I've attributed to those SS amps being cheaper ones.

 

From my experience with the HE-500, dynamics and clarity are the two most beneficial qualities an amp can bring you to help your HE-500 get that extra boost.  Ofc with that, you need a quality source too :)

 

The HE-500 is definitely not a picky headphone and that's why it can get along just fine with any setup, but with a quality source/amplification you will be surprised the details that come out. This is the reason the HE-500 rivals the LCD and other top headphones, not because it sounds okay out of an O2.  That being said it's price is just right to pick up and then upgrade your chain later.  As I previously said if you aren't planning on spending some money on your chain it's probably not really worth it to get the HE-500.

 

LaFigaro - I only heard negative things about this pairing until hifimanrookie started praising it so I would be careful. It seems like a journey to get this amp to pair well and might require a bit of rolling. This is only really praised by him and I'm not tryign to discredit him but I don't think it's safe to say you will be satisfied since there aren't a lot of opinions out there about this pairing.  He will tell you with the right tubes it will sound wonderful. There are probably just as good of options that dont require as much tube rolling. He also agrees with me that you should probably spend at least 700$ on a source+amp combined to make the HE-500 sound reasonable.

 

Magni/Modi - Well I haven't used these, but I owned the Asgard/Bifrost for some months and well... I think the bifrost is barely cutting it, and the asgard sounded a little thin and lacked dynamics to my ears. I'd only expect less than that from the magni/modi.  I actually preferred my little dot MK2 over the asgard at that time even though it lost a bit of detail and air.

 

Hifiman EF5 - Built in DAC is not so great from what I hear. People report it's overly tubey and generally speaking this amp is probably fine for its price point but I dont really hear anyone extremely pleased or unhappy with it.

 

Emotiva - no.... I dont think I could recommend this.  People are satisfied but if you dont like your he-500 then you are left with a speaker amp.  That kind of sucks. I guess you could get speakers :P

 

 

If you are looking for something around the 300$ price range there's not a whole lot of options there in terms of making the HE-500 sound the way it was imagined to sound.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here's a few gears that I would look into.

 

Woo WA7

CEntrance DacMini

http://www.headfonia.com/meier-audio-concerto-and-stagedac/

ALO Pan Am

Apex Butte

violectric V200

 

I'm sure someone can suggest more gear but those are what I would go with.  Other people will recommend the lyr/bifrost which I dont really mind but not a fan of personally.

 

For Audio GD, I believe most people use the NFB 10. I know nothing about this product.

 

 

OFC if you have no money but want to upgrade eventually I think something along the lines of the O2 is just right until you can make a bigger purchase(~1k USD).

I'm considering getting the Emotiva but am wondering how much improvement, if any, there will be over O2/ODAC and ASUS Essence One.  I can't tell the difference between the O2/ODAC and the ASUS Essence One, so I'm reluctant to upgrade to anything.  I borrowed the Essence One from my brother and only paid $200 for the O2/ODAC.  How much of an improvement will there be with the Emotiva or a higher end amp over the Essence One, which is already fairly expensive.

post #5285 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limniscate View Post

I'm considering getting the Emotiva but am wondering how much improvement, if any, there will be over O2/ODAC and ASUS Essence One.  I can't tell the difference between the O2/ODAC and the ASUS Essence One, so I'm reluctant to upgrade to anything.  I borrowed the Essence One from my brother and only paid $200 for the O2/ODAC.  How much of an improvement will there be with the Emotiva or a higher end amp over the Essence One, which is already fairly expensive.

 

You probably aren't hearing much difference between the O2 and Essence One because they are both underpowering the HE-500. I don't own and haven't heard an Emotiva but I do know they have ample power to drive the HE-500, and people seem to praise them. I use Lyr and I am quite happy with it.

post #5286 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker81598 View Post

 

You probably aren't hearing much difference between the O2 and Essence One because they are both underpowering the HE-500. I don't own and haven't heard an Emotiva but I do know they have ample power to drive the HE-500, and people seem to praise them. I use Lyr and I am quite happy with it.

The specs for the Essence One say that they output 7Vrms.  What the hell does that mean?  I know the HE500 prefers 1W.

post #5287 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limniscate View Post

I'm considering getting the Emotiva but am wondering how much improvement, if any, there will be over O2/ODAC and ASUS Essence One.  I can't tell the difference between the O2/ODAC and the ASUS Essence One, so I'm reluctant to upgrade to anything.  I borrowed the Essence One from my brother and only paid $200 for the O2/ODAC.  How much of an improvement will there be with the Emotiva or a higher end amp over the Essence One, which is already fairly expensive.


I can tell you this much: If you can't hear the difference you can probably still FEEL it. Last time I tried a speaker amp it gave a hell of a lot of punch in the bass region.

 

I'd say if you can tell the difference between velour and pleather, you should also be able to tell the difference between O2 and better suited amps.

 

The O2 outputs something in the 200-300 mW region with the HE-500 as far as I remember.

post #5288 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limniscate View Post

The specs for the Essence One say that they output 7Vrms.  What the hell does that mean?  I know the HE500 prefers 1W.


W is watts=power which is current x voltage... amps x volts... he 500 requires current and the recommended is 2W so consider the current part of the amp more


Edited by h4mm3r 0f th0r - 6/4/13 at 2:48am
post #5289 of 18078

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limniscate View Post

The specs for the Essence One say that they output 7Vrms.  What the hell does that mean?  I know the HE500 prefers 1W.

 

Not much. From what I have learned in my short time here, manufacturer specifications in this field as a rule are always incomplete (7V into how many ohm? What is the output impedance?) and what little is provided often turns out to be inaccurate when measured by third parties. If I'm not mistaken one could make a rough estimate with P=E^2/R, but those 7V will vary and even the impedance of the HE-500 varies quite a bit from unit to unit, it's specified as 32ohm, Tyll measured 47ohm on his etc.

7^2/32=1.53W

7^2/47=1.04W

So somewhere in between or maybe not. I am not an electrical engineer so the above might be ********. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

I can tell you this much: If you can't hear the difference you can probably still FEEL it. 

You will definitely feel it in your wallet. floatsmile.png


Edited by Case - 6/4/13 at 4:16am
post #5290 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case View Post

 

Not much. From what I have learned in my short time here, manufacturer specifications in this field as a rule are always incomplete (7V into how many ohm? What is the output impedance?) and what little is provided often turns out to be inaccurate when measured by third parties. If I'm not mistaken one could make a rough estimate with P=E^2/R, but those 7V will vary and even the impedance of the HE-500 varies quite a bit from unit to unit, it's specified as 32ohm, Tyll measured 47ohm on his etc.

7^2/32=1.53W

7^2/47=1.04W

The O2 can't deliver more than some 300 mW without distorting.

post #5291 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post

I would not specifically suggest a tube amp. I would suggest a good one. Solid state or tube is up to you. Good tube amps do not have a tubey sound.  The V200 for example seems to be a wonderful pairing. I know there are others. No reason to limit your choices but it really depends on what you want. I find the taboo has a very clean, sharp, dynamic sound with great microdetail. Most of the SS amps I've used sound very sterile compared to the decware, but at the same time not any warmer or darker. This I've attributed to those SS amps being cheaper ones.

LaFigaro - I only heard negative things about this pairing until hifimanrookie started praising it so I would be careful. It seems like a journey to get this amp to pair well and might require a bit of rolling. This is only really praised by him and I'm not tryign to discredit him but I don't think it's safe to say you will be satisfied since there aren't a lot of opinions out there about this pairing.  He will tell you with the right tubes it will sound wonderful. There are probably just as good of options that dont require as much tube rolling. He also agrees with me that you should probably spend at least 700$ on a source+amp combined to make the HE-500 sound reasonable.

Woo WA7
CEntrance DacMini
http://www.headfonia.com/meier-audio-concerto-and-stagedac/
ALO Pan Am
Apex Butte
violectric V200

I'm sure someone can suggest more gear but those are what I would go with.  Other people will recommend the lyr/bifrost which I dont really mind but not a fan of personally.

For Audio GD, I believe most people use the NFB 10. I know nothing about this product.


OFC if you have no money but want to upgrade eventually I think something along the lines of the O2 is just right until you can make a bigger purchase(~1k USD).

Concerning the 339... I actually have a 337, a lightly modified one...and with the tubes i have it does sound perfect...
And ur right..i am only one who TALKS about the 339/337..thats because the owners of 337/339 dont NEED to show that their amps sound way above their pricepoint with the he500..in contrary to some other brand owners...i myself tried the v200 with the he500 on a small meet for 30 min..and my 337 sounded way better...the v200 is a good pair also...and it was not only me who said that..many others on the meet agreed with that..as my 337 doesn't sound like a tube amp!

But as i said..when i like something i talk about it..the 337/339 owners are more like silent admirors...u almost never see them posting something on other threads about their amp...but checkthe lafigaro 339 thread urself if ur interested.u will be surprised what u will be
reading then...but i admit..best pairing is with the hd650...the v200 paired wonderfull with the lcd 2 ver.2 though!!!

Just to be straight..ofcoirse they are much better amps..i myself just put my first payment on what will be my endgame in amping so they can start with the built..they are called blue circle audio..

But for around 700 euros (with tuberolling) the 337 is one heck of an amp...i took the risk with my 337.and couldnt be more happier..i will be at the london meet with my 337 in oktober (my new amp wont be ready by then)..so everyone is free to hear it with the he500. I already can say most of them will be happily surprised...only the hd800 sounds bad on the 337.

Ps...lower tier amps of lafigaro and darkvoice wont work on the he500... I tried the darkvoice 3322..and the sound was weak..missed something..so i guess the 3322 couldnt provide enough juice or something...

And once again...i only speak from my own experience...i never ever heard a decware taboo or wooaudio wa2.. So i cant talk about that..but i agree that i heard good things about them also..only they are a bit expensive..

And lloyd..i dont feel personally attacked...i understand what u mean...i probably would say the same..but i would suggest..try one..even once...maybe u could be surprised also biggrin.gif

As i said..i will be at the london meet in october..maybe u can attend also? Iam always open to new insights...as all i say is my honest opinion...and i will probabbly put my amp for sale for a good price with all my tubes included on that meet as that will save people a bunch of money in postage as the amp is heavy! And my new (yep solid state) amp will be arriving i hope in november..

Hope to see u there then ..will be fun.. wink.gif
Edited by hifimanrookie - 6/4/13 at 9:40am
post #5292 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

The O2 can't deliver more than some 300 mW without distorting.
Is that true even with a more powerful wall wart like a WAU16-1000 or WAU16-2400?
post #5293 of 18078

Are the HE500 bright and sibilant headphones?

 

I have read that the HE400 are sibilant and bright a few times now... Probably due to the massive peak at 10khz....

 

I thought the point of expensive headphones was to avoid things like sibilance...

 

For reference I find the D2000 too bright and sibilant without EQ. Beyerdynamic, Shure 840, CAL etc. all too bright for me. Don't mind the brightness of the D2000 that much its just the sibilance which hurts my ears.

 

The area that bothers me in treble is sibilance and any excessive peaks or harshness in the area from 5-12khz. The HE500 look less extreme than the HE400 but still have a big peak around 8-12Khz which looks a bit dodgy.

 

Do you think I should skip the HE500 and look for something else instead?


Edited by nicholars - 6/4/13 at 10:56am
post #5294 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Are the HE500 bright and sibilant headphones?

 

I have read that the HE400 are sibilant and bright a few times now... Probably due to the massive peak at 10khz....

 

I thought the point of expensive headphones was to avoid things like sibilance...

 

For reference I find the D2000 too bright and sibilant without EQ. Beyerdynamic, Shure 840, CAL etc. all too bright for me. Don't mind the brightness of the D2000 that much its just the sibilance which hurts my ears.

 

The area that bothers me in treble is sibilance and any excessive peaks or harshness in the area from 5-12khz. The HE500 look less extreme than the HE400 but still have a big peak around 8-12Khz which looks a bit dodgy.

 

Do you think I should skip the HE500 and look for something else instead?

I see the HE-500 as slightly dark, especially with pleather pads. Nothing like the HE-400 at all

post #5295 of 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limniscate View Post


Is that true even with a more powerful wall wart like a WAU16-1000 or WAU16-2400?

It is measured both by NwAvGuy and Tyll as far as I remember. Go look it up maybe?

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