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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 337

post #5041 of 18030

Dynaudio is rather analytical, that's their house sound, quite picky on amping too. Best I've heard is through Plinius amp; even though the dealer said if you're poor, Rotel can suffice while saving up for Plinius. That was quite a long time ago, I actually have no idea how the new Xcite range sound. In general, I really love Scandinavian stuff; using a Danish amp atm too.

 

Yep, EU price sucks. 700 pounds (~$1k) for the He-500, and they wonder why I shoot straight to the He-6 bigsmile_face.gif

post #5042 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Dynaudio is rather analytical, that's their house sound, quite picky on amping too. Best I've heard is through Plinius amp; even though the dealer said if you're poor, Rotel can suffice while saving up for Plinius. That was quite a long time ago, I actually have no idea how the new Xcite range sound. In general, I really love Scandinavian stuff; using a Danish amp atm too.

 

Yep, EU price sucks. 700 pounds (~$1k) for the He-500, and they wonder why I shoot straight to the He-6 bigsmile_face.gif


a bit offtopic...but i had a dynaudio 3way set in the front doors in a car of mine once....it was indeed super analytical.....u heard everything! but sound was a bit strong on the treble..bass was fast but not so low.....to my taste anyway....but in my car they sounded perfectly with 2 35cm subwoofers in the boot.. biggrin.gif

post #5043 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I think this is where we disagree. To me the HE-500 is South of neutral (ever so slightly) and using the pleathers makes that worse (dark/congested and gets rid of the "air"). But yeah I agree with you that pleathers do a wideband repression of everything from 3K and up (roughly speaking). If people like that, then no worries, but just sharing what I think of this suck-out of the frequencies.

 

This may be completely wrong, but isn't your mod essentially breaking in the pads much more quickly? They do get a lot softer over time. Then again I haven't tried your mod yet, so I may just be speaking out of my ass. very_evil_smiley.gif

HE500 overall is south of neutral, but its treble hump sticks out as being north of neutral relative to the midrange.

 

 

 

This is velour measurements with HE500. Notice the significant belly going left from 1kHz, that's the warmth of HE500 (south of neutral). But also note the treble hump (north of neutral), that's where it stuck out for me with velours, and not in a good way. The pleathers push that hump down, and for those who want utter coherency in the midrange->treble transition, that is necessary for the timbre to be correct. The jergpad mod just corrects the congestion aspect of the pleathers, it doesn't seem to directly affect the tonal balance I described.

 

The jergpad measurements on the same HE500 are posted in the end of the jergpad thread original post.

 

As for the longevity of the pads, mine have been used 5-10 hours everyday for the past 4 months, doesn't seem to be going bad. The only disconcerting part is that if the velour top mod is done with double-sided tape, it does not stay on there forever, so I ended up sewing it on and had no problems since.


Edited by jerg - 5/20/13 at 2:52pm
post #5044 of 18030

I too frequent the Pirates site, so I've seen all these graphs before, many times. wink_face.gif

 

To me the HE-500 is still darker than neutral, but close enough with the velours to make me happy.

 

Plus timbre and coherency are not really related. Not sure where you got this notion.


Edited by M-13 - 5/20/13 at 6:12pm
post #5045 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I too frequent the Pirates site, so I've seen all these graphs before, many times. wink_face.gif

 

To me the HE-500 is still darker than neutral, but close enough with the velours to make me happy.

 

Plus timbre and coherency are not really related. Not sure where you got this notion.

The dip between the transition from upper mids to treble followed by the treble hump makes the treble "stick out", and this discontinuity messes with the timbre; instruments/vocals (especially female vocals) don't sound absolutely right because of it. I used the word "coherency" to try to describe the (lack of) smooth transition from mids to treble, and that's where the notion comes from.

 

Since you've seen these plots, what are your thoughts on the CSDs of the jergpad v1.0?

post #5046 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

The dip between the transition from upper mids to treble followed by the treble hump makes the treble "stick out", and this discontinuity messes with the timbre; instruments/vocals (especially female vocals) don't sound absolutely right because of it. I used the word "coherency" to try to describe the (lack of) smooth transition from mids to treble, and that's where the notion comes from.

 

Since you've seen these plots, what are your thoughts on the CSDs of the jergpad v1.0?

 

I made this exact point in my review of the HE-500, yet I was told that it was just my opinion (not by jerg though). It's interesting to see someone else who holds this same view.

post #5047 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

The dip between the transition from upper mids to treble followed by the treble hump makes the treble "stick out", and this discontinuity messes with the timbre; instruments/vocals (especially female vocals) don't sound absolutely right because of it. I used the word "coherency" to try to describe the (lack of) smooth transition from mids to treble, and that's where the notion comes from.

 

Since you've seen these plots, what are your thoughts on the CSDs of the jergpad v1.0?

No offesne jerg, but your explanation between the relationship of coherency and timbre doesn't make sense to me. To me the two are not related in any meaningful way. What I mean by this is that theoretically I can have accurate timbre with terrible coherency or have great coherency (smooth) with inaccurate timbre.

 

As for your jerg pad plots/csd I think they're nice, but it doesn't make me curious enough to try it. I applaud you on your efforts though.

post #5048 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

No offesne jerg, but your explanation between the relationship of coherency and timbre doesn't make sense to me. To me the two are not related in any meaningful way. What I mean by this is that theoretically I can have accurate timbre with terrible coherency or have great coherency (smooth) with inaccurate timbre.

 

As for your jerg pad plots/csd I think they're nice, but it doesn't make me curious enough to try it. I applaud you on your efforts though.

 

You can't have correct timbre with an incoherent FR. If an instrument or voice naturally resonates from the mids to the treble, then the awkward transition points of the HE500 would prevent it from sounding realistic.

post #5049 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

You can't have correct timbre with an incoherent FR. If an instrument or voice naturally resonates from the mids to the treble, then the awkward transition points of the HE500 would prevent it from sounding realistic.

Sounds pretty reasonable, might explain why I never like Grados for anything but electric guitar rolleyes.gif

 

Though I never care for the technical reason for timbre/coherency of headphones. One of the few areas where our ears do a good job =p.

post #5050 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

You can't have correct timbre with an incoherent FR. If an instrument or voice naturally resonates from the mids to the treble, then the awkward transition points of the HE500 would prevent it from sounding realistic.

That would depend on where the incoherency is. FR relates to pitch and timbre relates to harmonics of the pitch, which is a much more complicated subject. Depending on the pitch one can still have accurate timbre even if there are incoherencies in other parts of the FR.

 

For what it's worth I feel like the pleather padded HE-500 has less accurate timbre than the velour. Yeah I said that. evil_smiley.gif

post #5051 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

You can't have correct timbre with an incoherent FR. If an instrument or voice naturally resonates from the mids to the treble, then the awkward transition points of the HE500 would prevent it from sounding realistic.

I don't find the transition awkward, especially relative to other headphones. The HE-500 in stock velour form is coherent enough. In fact it's probably one of the most coherent headphone out there.


Edited by M-13 - 5/20/13 at 8:19pm
post #5052 of 18030

I think if the HE-500 (or any headphone for that matter) had a completely flat frequency response it would be quite boring. The treble bump around 10Khz gives it more air and energy that sounds great to my ears. Without it that ultra-smooth treble that is one of the defining attributes of the HE-500 would get pushed into the background.

post #5053 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker81598 View Post

I think if the HE-500 (or any headphone for that matter) had a completely flat frequency response it would be quite boring. The treble bump around 10Khz gives it more air and energy that sounds great to my ears. Without it that ultra-smooth treble that is one of the defining attributes of the HE-500 would get pushed into the background.

The smoothness of HE500's treble at least partially comes from its severe dip in its upper treble, centered at 14kHz. That dip removes a ton of tizz inherent in a lot of music. Other things that contributed are the lack of ringing in the treble decay, and in general a lack of sharp peaks.

 

The "midrange-treble discontinuity" we are talking about doesn't impact the treble smoothness, it just makes treble a bit less realistic-sounding. The jergpad mod resolves a lot of that discontinuity, which to my surprise was objectively shown in later measurements too.

 

The ideal uppermids~treble response for me would be smooth upper midrange -> treble, a slight mid-treble hump similar to HE500s but more spreadout and less perked up, and the similar upper treble dip but maybe less severe so some air is preserved.

post #5054 of 18030

At the end of the day it always comes down to taste. Many here strive for that ultimate "accuracy" in sound reproduction based on objective measurements. I just go with what sounds the best to my ears when I listen to it. I've always preferred a slightly accentuated treble, such as with the Q701. I use DT990 pads on my HE-500 which, if anything, accentuate the treble bump more than the stock velours. I do use an equalizer to give a 2db boost centered at 2Khz which helps with the recessed upper mids. I have never liked darker sounding headphones like the LCD-2. They just seem to lack energy, detail and clarity to me.

post #5055 of 18030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

You can't have correct timbre with an incoherent FR. If an instrument or voice naturally resonates from the mids to the treble, then the awkward transition points of the HE500 would prevent it from sounding realistic.

But you can get pretty damn close.
Some very coloured headphones (Grado for example) can often sound correct because of material choices and excellent tuning (while actually being far from it), while other headphones that are more neutral can sound artificial or a little 'plasticky' making acoustic instruments sound synthesized or processed (a few older AKG studio models come to mind, although they're technically more 'correct').

 

I've read some people don't like the HD800 because it seems to add a layer of 'super' realism to everything (like unrealistically increasing the contrast, saturation and sharpness in a photo). While others find it's timbre to be flawless.

I'm in the first camp that don't like the super-realism of the HD800 (for example), and prefer the HE-500 for it's 'very close to' all-round perfection. 

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