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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 263

post #3931 of 16437

Also, the bass with HE-500 through Emotiva, while great also at times comes off non-cohesive. Similarly to the lacking center stage and vocals somewhat going to the left and right towards my ear rather than being in the center or close to it; the bass also feels as if its punching on the sides of my ear and not quite connecting with the bass through the entire width. Typically, the bass is supposed to be through and through, filling the stage. With HE-500 and Emotiva, you can feel the bass hit from the sides and coming near the middle but just not reaching it. So it feels as if you have two separate bass channels kicking separately rather than being unified. With O2, HE-500's bass didn't have this problem. The LCD-2 and other speakers doesn't have this problem either with Emotiva.

 

I think this might be because the Emotiva pushes the HE-500 to its limit. While it does show a lot more stengths like a wider soundstage, better separation, more controlled and faster bass. It does also amplifies it's few caveats, in this case it's the center stage. Although the height never changed for me with any amp: Fiio E10, O2 or Emotiva. Also, with both E10 and O2, the HE-500's centerstage seems quite sufficient, but again none of them are as wide as Emotiva.

post #3932 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

Also, the bass with HE-500 through Emotiva, while great also at times comes off non-cohesive. Similarly to the lacking center stage and vocals somewhat going to the left and right towards my ear rather than being in the center or close to it; the bass also feels as if its punching on the sides of my ear and not quite connecting with the bass through the entire width. Typically, the bass is supposed to be through and through, filling the stage. With HE-500 and Emotiva, you can feel the bass hit from the sides and coming near the middle but just not reaching it. So it feels as if you have two separate bass channels kicking separately rather than being unified. With O2, HE-500's bass didn't have this problem. The LCD-2 and other speakers doesn't have this problem either with Emotiva.

 

I think this might be because the Emotiva pushes the HE-500 to its limit. While it does show a lot more stengths like a wider soundstage, better separation, more controlled and faster bass. It does also amplifies it's few caveats, in this case it's the center stage. Although the height never changed for me with any amp: Fiio E10, O2 or Emotiva. Also, with both E10 and O2, the HE-500's centerstage seems quite sufficient, but again none of them are as wide as Emotiva.

I still think its all about the quality of amping and sources...and i dont believe the emotiva pushes the he500 to the limit...i think if u use a WELLKNOWN better pair like the 337 with the right tubes u wont have any shortcomings..at least not the ones people are talking about here..and hearing what amps u guys are using i am not surprised..try the thread of 337 or 339 or the v200 threads..and even any he500 review! and then tell me if they also find the same shortcomings as u guys are stating here...as the answer is a total no...yes its not a perfect phone..the he6 or lcd 3 is better..but all agree it has not faults either! so pls invest first in a very good amp..not being a emotiva or lyr (although hedrives the he500 very well..but not as good as a 337/339 or a v200) or any 'budget' amp...am not saying u need to invest in a multi 1000 amp to get the he500 sound on his best..but it needs quality and good pairing amping..and those dont come cheap..but for 800 usd ( icl.good tubes) u get a sound u wont easily forget on ur he500...and pls pls pls..for gods sake.upgrade the obnoxious standard silverplated cable the he500 is delivered with..get urself a quality litz 2 copper cable like the toxic cables black widow 22awg as i have now..

 

and if u did that all..then come back to the thread stating same thing...he500 is very sensitive to right amping and right cabling i found out after testing several amps (7) and cables (4)..and ieven found out that after changing the two powercords for 2 high grade Aura power cables the sound got even more conherent and more detaily..last step was putting herbie's audiolab tenderfoot under the amp and babyfeet my hm602..last step to music heaven...try it out guys..its worth it..the he500 is the best deal u can have on headphone brands...but only if u let it shine through the right components! Synergy is keyword here as i said esrlier here on this thread..and people who sctually got a 337 or 339 agree with me totally..u haveto invest at least the price of the he500 into amping or even more..yes ur wallet will hate u..but ur ears will love u...imho ofcourse!

post #3933 of 16437

So then preproman, what I had described, is that what people mean when they comment on center-stage?  Is there a definition of this term I could read some where?

 

Over here, the bass hits nicely in the middle.  I am fickle when it comes to bass presentation.  I want to be able to bounce quarters off my bass!

 

Needless to say, the qualms Zoom has with his HE500s are not present here.  I will agree that stage height is small.  A non-issue for me.

post #3934 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

 

This. Yea I also forgot to mention the height. HE-500 has close to none. LCD-2 has noticeably more.

Could be due to pads; Hifiman pads have relatively small circular openings, while Audeze pads have much larger oval openings that are taller than they are wide. That means with Audeze pads you would perceive more auditory information from the top and bottom of your ears, aka perception of height in the soundstaging.

post #3935 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

I still think its all about the quality of amping and sources...and i dont believe the emotiva pushes the he500 to the limit...i think if u use a WELLKNOWN better pair like the 337 with the right tubes u wont have any shortcomings..at least not the ones people are talking about here..and hearing what amps u guys are using i am not surprised..try the thread of 337 or 339 or the v200 threads..and even any he500 review! and then tell me if they also find the same shortcomings as u guys are stating here...as the answer is a total no...yes its not a perfect phone..the he6 or lcd 3 is better..but all agree it has not faults either! so pls invest first in a very good amp..not being a emotiva or lyr (although hedrives the he500 very well..but not as good as a 337/339 or a v200) or any 'budget' amp...am not saying u need to invest in a multi 1000 amp to get the he500 sound on his best..but it needs quality and good pairing amping..and those dont come cheap..but for 800 usd ( icl.good tubes) u get a sound u wont easily forget on ur he500...and pls pls pls..for gods sake.upgrade the obnoxious standard silverplated cable the he500 is delivered with..get urself a quality litz 2 copper cable like the toxic cables black widow 22awg as i have now..

 

and if u did that all..then come back to the thread stating same thing...he500 is very sensitive to right amping and right cabling i found out after testing several amps (7) and cables (4)..and ieven found out that after changing the two powercords for 2 high grade Aura power cables the sound got even more conherent and more detaily..last step was putting herbie's audiolab tenderfoot under the amp and babyfeet my hm602..last step to music heaven...try it out guys..its worth it..the he500 is the best deal u can have on headphone brands...but only if u let it shine through the right components! Synergy is keyword here as i said esrlier here on this thread..and people who sctually got a 337 or 339 agree with me totally..u haveto invest at least the price of the he500 into amping or even more..yes ur wallet will hate u..but ur ears will love u...imho ofcourse!

 

^^Say What^^

 

I disagree with you on all accounts.  You say the Emotiva (a speaker amp now) can't drive the HE500s to is best.  That amp is way overkill if anything.  Much more than what it needs.  To be honest.  All I ever see talking about those 337 and 339 amps is you.  Not saying they'er bad or anything because I haven't heard them.  If those amps was all that and all that "WELL KNOWN" as you put it they would be on every ones recommend list - "and they're not"  So that means they're not so well known.

 

The HE-500s are a very forgiving headphone.  It doesn't take much to get to sound good.  Yes a good amp is needed for it to sound it's best.  but to say the emotiva can't get them there is dead wrong.  Also to say the 337 and 339 can get them to sound better that the Emotiva without a side by side comparison is also wrong.

 

All is IMHO..biggrin.gif

post #3936 of 16437

After reading some of the more recent comments, I'll chime in: proper amping is the cure to all your ills with the HE-500. Since that needs some qualification, here goes. Right now I have the HE-500 attached to a 12watts @ 38ohms amp. The integrated I am using has peak power meters and I am consistently drawing above 1 watt when music is playing, with full passages drawing between 5 to 10 watts. The SQ I am getting has none of the characteristics that may be described as lacking, bloated, bloomy, etc. Instead I am getting what I'll describe as tight, full-bodied music with everything simply there. I can zero in on the fine details in this full body wave as well as the more prominent aspects. This headphone is quite capable of pulling it all out if the music has it. Now here is my primary point about amping: it's not about power, it's about synergy. Having sufficient power headroom for the headphone to properly flex its diaphragm is the foundation - it should be the given, what it should take for-granted. You have to take care of that first, but that doesn't guarantee that the HE-500 will totally sing just because you have thrown some power at it. This is where experimentation really comes in, and of course that moment of a complete gasp when you finally find a matching mate for this incredible headphone. My two cents: You have to be fishing in the right pond to catch the right fish before you can fire up the grill (pun intended).

post #3937 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezolver View Post

So then preproman, what I had described, is that what people mean when they comment on center-stage?  Is there a definition of this term I could read some where?

 

Over here, the bass hits nicely in the middle.  I am fickle when it comes to bass presentation.  I want to be able to bounce quarters off my bass!

 

Needless to say, the qualms Zoom has with his HE500s are not present here.  I will agree that stage height is small.  A non-issue for me.

 

soundstaging, soundstage presentation The accuracy with which a reproducing system conveys audible information about the size, shape, and acoustical characteristics of the original recording space and the placement of the performers within it.

 

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html

 

http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary

 

http://diyaudiocorner.tripod.com/def.htm

 

http://www.audiolinks.com/glossary.shtml

post #3938 of 16437
Thanks for the links!
post #3939 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezolver View Post

Thanks for the links!

 

By the way..  I like my bass tight as well.  

post #3940 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terja View Post

Right now I have the HE-500 attached to a 12watts @ 38ohms amp. The integrated I am using has peak power meters and I am consistently drawing above 1 watt when music is playing, with full passages drawing between 5 to 10 watts. The SQ I am getting has none of the characteristics that may be described as lacking, bloated, bloomy, etc. Instead I am getting what I'll describe as tight, full-bodied music with everything simply there. I can zero in on the fine details in this full body wave as well as the more prominent aspects.

 

Care to share the name of that amp? You got me a little interested smily_headphones1.gif

post #3941 of 16437

I've experienced a slight "falling out of love" with mine recently too. I've actually been in hot pursuit of a Bassier Dynamic 'phone  to supplement it. Doesn't mean I'm going to get rid of them, it just means the "honeymoon" is over and they aren't going to be my end all 'phone for all Genres. I wish they were, but clearly someone like me (and a lot of you) need more than one headphone to be fully happy. So far I haven't found one that can do it all. I just ordered the Th-900, which is supposed to be like an "HE500 on Steroids", so I guess we'll see.... 

 

I will say that my HE500s did seem to respond well to having a more powerful amp connected to them. I was using them with a DACmini for awhile and simply couldn't get the full sound I was looking for. Not to mention volume levels. Hooked them up to my m903 and the Bass tightened up, got stronger and I feel the whole soundstage became less distant sounding, and more coherent. These are fairly inefficient 'phones compared to others (85 dB compared to 115 dB for the DJ's as an example) and they responded well to a more powerful Amp for me. 


Edited by bareyb - 3/24/13 at 3:17pm
post #3942 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terja View Post

Right now I have the HE-500 attached to a 12watts @ 38ohms amp. The integrated I am using has peak power meters and I am consistently drawing above 1 watt when music is playing, with full passages drawing between 5 to 10 watts. The SQ I am getting has none of the characteristics that may be described as lacking, bloated, bloomy, etc. Instead I am getting what I'll describe as tight, full-bodied music with everything simply there. I can zero in on the fine details in this full body wave as well as the more prominent aspects.

 

 

So you're telling me that a headphone with a manufacturer recommended power requirement of 1 watt, will actually require up to 10 watts to perform optimally?

 

Good to know. If I ever decide to buy a HE-6 (8 watt amp recommended), I should probably just find a wall socket that accepts 1/4 inch connectors, since the actual power draw may be 10x more than advertised.

post #3943 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anda View Post

Care to share the name of that amp? You got me a little interested smily_headphones1.gif

 

I deliberately left the details out, but you could probably read between the lines. I am using a 55-watt per channel Kenwood KA-405 integrated amp with the HE-500 hooked up to it's speaker taps via a 4-pin XLR cable. This is a fairly easy way to get the required power that I feel this headphone requires without spending a whole lot more for a stand-alone headphone amp with similar power specs. At those rates I have done a fair bit of experimentation and the Kenwood is one of my favorite HE-500 amps. I also love the way the headphone behaves with my tube amp hooked via speaker posts (Musical Paradise MP-301 MK2) - sublime is a word I would use. I built a resistor box to hook up to the tube amp speaker taps to protect the transformer. For the solid state Kenwood it's a direct connection.

 

(edited to correctly identify amp)


Edited by Terja - 3/24/13 at 3:53pm
post #3944 of 16437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terja View Post

 

I deliberately left the details out, but you could probably read between the lines. I am using a 55-watt per channel Kenwood KA-305 integrated amp with the HE-500 hooked up to it's speaker taps via a 4-pin XLR cable. This is a fairly easy way to get the required power that I feel this headphone requires without spending a whole lot more for a stand-alone headphone amp with similar power specs. At those rates I have done a fair bit of experimentation and the Kenwood is one of my favorite HE-500 amps. I also love the way the headphone behaves with my tube amp hooked via speaker posts (Musical Paradise MP-301 MK2) - sublime is a word I would use. I built a resistor box to hook up to the tube amp speaker taps to protect the transformer. For the solid state Kenwood it's a direct connection.

Do you get any background Hum when the volume is down?  I've heard that can be a problem with directly connecting. 

post #3945 of 16437

Looks great! KA-405 has power meters and 55W/8ohm. The KA-305 is 'only' 40W/8ohm:

 

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