or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 103

post #1531 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgotsa View Post

I miss my HE-500! They really are incredible headphone. 

 

A little bit off-topic, does anyone know where I can see measurements of different headphones with and without using an amp to see exactly what changes?

 

 

All measurements are made using an amplifier driving the headphone. But, I suspect you mean that you want to see some measurements that indicate the amp-headphone interaction. There is only one type of measurement, the low frequency responce, which indicates the interaction between amp's output resistance and headphones impedance. 

Orthodynamic headphones, like HE-500, excibit purely resistive impedance and so their low frequency responce is not at all effected by amplifier's output resistance.

 

So, I am not aware of any measurement that will indicate (for orthos) the amp-HP interaction.

post #1532 of 18021

Thanks. 

 

I just thought it would be interesting to see how a particular pair measures using no amp at all and how it measures with different amps as well. When you read threads here on head-fi you would think that an amp or a DAC can change the headphones completely, which should show up on graphs if it was true. Even it changes are minimal it should show up on a graph, actually. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plin View Post

 

 

All measurements are made using an amplifier driving the headphone. But, I suspect you mean that you want to see some measurements that indicate the amp-headphone interaction. There is only one type of measurement, the low frequency responce, which indicates the interaction between amp's output resistance and headphones impedance. 

Orthodynamic headphones, like HE-500, excibit purely resistive impedance and so their low frequency responce is not at all effected by amplifier's output resistance.

 

So, I am not aware of any measurement that will indicate (for orthos) the amp-HP interaction.

post #1533 of 18021

Possibly, but how would one measure soundstage width/depth, attack, timbre, etc. from a DAC, amp, or headphone?  Headphone frequency responses can reveal some qualities but I have not read about good quantitative measurements about amps and DACs.  Good question though and surely the makers of DACs and Amps know beforehand how their designs will objectively sound.

 

David, looks like you went through quite a number of flagship headphones.  Was it a fun ride or did you give up on headphones?  I'll probably hold onto the HE-500 for quite a while.  From what I read I believe it has excellent scalability and it sounds great in my current rig.  There are other headphones I would like to try but haven't got around to making a real effort to try them (yet).  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgotsa View Post

Thanks. 

 

I just thought it would be interesting to see how a particular pair measures using no amp at all and how it measures with different amps as well. When you read threads here on head-fi you would think that an amp or a DAC can change the headphones completely, which should show up on graphs if it was true. Even it changes are minimal it should show up on a graph, actually. 

post #1534 of 18021

Anyone compared these with Ultrasone Pro2900? I recently got some Pro900 and love the signature; amazing bass. I;m thinking of getting an open pair to compliment them, as I've decided to sell my Beyer T70s (not doing it for me, not much bass though amazing quality). I read a post elsewhere where someone was saying the He500 have more detail and warthm than Pro2900 but I do like the ultrasone sound. Still, something different would be nice. How's the He500 bass, especially for electronic music? I;ll be using Matrix Mstage

post #1535 of 18021

True. But you see a lot of people saying that cables is just BS because no one has measured any differences and then proceed to tell about their new amp that is oh so great but doesn't show any differences on graphs either. I just thought about it yesterday and haven't really done any research or anything on the topic though, maybe there are tons of measurements. 

 

Definitely was a fun ride! I enjoyed them all and I am going to buy many more when I feel that my money has nowhere more important to go. If it wasn't for the money, I would still own them all.

I have to say though, even if the HE-500 is very impressive, the HD800 is just spectacular. I didn't realize what I had until it was gone. 

Originally Posted by WNBC View Post

Possibly, but how would one measure soundstage width/depth, attack, timbre, etc. from a DAC, amp, or headphone?  Headphone frequency responses can reveal some qualities but I have not read about good quantitative measurements about amps and DACs.  Good question though and surely the makers of DACs and Amps know beforehand how their designs will objectively sound.

 

David, looks like you went through quite a number of flagship headphones.  Was it a fun ride or did you give up on headphones?  I'll probably hold onto the HE-500 for quite a while.  From what I read I believe it has excellent scalability and it sounds great in my current rig.  There are other headphones I would like to try but haven't got around to making a real effort to try them (yet).  

 

post #1536 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgotsa View Post

 about their new amp that is oh so great but doesn't show any differences on graphs either. I just thought about it yesterday and haven't really done any research or anything on the topic though, maybe there are tons of measurements. 

 

 

Of course there are numerous measurements that reveal differences between amplifier SQ (THD, slew rate, power in various loads etc) and some that are related to their load (damping factor and load stability – and orthos doesn’t really care about any of these two).

 So, there are measurements which reveal various aspects of amplifier sound quality.

 

But if you want to see any measurements that display SQ differences with the same amplifier driving two different orthos (e.g. HE=500 and LCD-2), I suppose you won’t find any. Orthos are purely resistive and display none of the low frequency electomechanical resonance that many dynamic drivers have. Controlling this resonance is the reason behind the need for high damping factor.So damping factor is meaningless in orthos. 

Load stability is effected only from cable and not from the orthodynamic driver’s load itself because of its purely resistive nature.


Edited by plin - 6/23/12 at 10:35am
post #1537 of 18021

I'm looking for a graphs of the same headphone driven by different amplifier or no amplifier at all. Not interested in the measurements of different amplifiers, just how the headphone measures with different ones. 

 

For example, Tyll always does tons of measurements of all his headphones and I would like to see all those with and without an amplifier. To see the huge changes that should occur. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plin View Post

 

Of course there are numerous measurements that reveal differences between amplifier SQ (THD, slew rate, power in various loads etc) and some that are related to their load (damping factor and load stability – and orthos doesn’t really care about any of these two).

 So, there are measurements which reveal various aspects of amplifier sound quality.

post #1538 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by plin View Post
... Controlling this resonance is the reason behind the need for high damping factor.So damping factor is meaningless in orthos. ...

 

 

i would be interested in knowing if there are any back-voltage being generated by the

large magnets and coil traces of the orthos. this may explain why i find solid state to

do better with speed/transients of my orthos than tube (otl and t-coupled) amps with

higher ouput impedance.

post #1539 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by takezo View Post

 

i would be interested in knowing if there are any back-voltage being generated by the

large magnets and coil traces of the orthos. this may explain why i find solid state to

do better with speed/transients of my orthos than tube (otl and t-coupled) amps with

higher ouput impedance.

 

 
Experts in the huge ortho thread said that loose electromechanical coupling of orthos is the reason. But, to be honest, this is something that baffles me still. If you find a good explanation please share it with us. 
 
Maybe, orthos doesn't excibit mechanical resonances, because there isn't any spring loaded mass, just a loose membrane that expands under the electromagnetic force. But maybe I am wrong here.

Edited by plin - 6/23/12 at 12:41pm
post #1540 of 18021

well, by virtue of inductance, any conductance within a magnetic field must produce an opposing field, so

i'm pretty certain there will be some level of back emf to be dealt with considering these ear speakers have

significant magnets in them. in practice, i've jumped over to the solid state side when driving the orthos for

the best SQ.
 

post #1541 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by takezo View Post

well, by virtue of inductance, any conductance within a magnetic field must produce an opposing field, so

i'm pretty certain there will be some level of back emf to be dealt with considering these ear speakers have

significant magnets in them.

 

 

My thoughts exactly! Proof of this is that you can use your HE-500 as a mic (and a very good one)! Just connect the 3.5mm TRS jack to your soundcard’s mic input and start recording. Audeze has already made a similar product.
 
So back EMF is present in orthos also, but why, then, the purely resistive impedance? My thought on this is that there is no real resonance in the ortho driver. Maybe there are some minor sound wave resonances in the openings of or between the magnet plates, but the membrane itself doesn’t resonate, so it doesn’t exhibit the out-of-phase back EMF that the rest of the dynamic drivers (which are really spring loaded) exhibit. 
 
Purely resistive impedance means that there is no alteration of frequency response even with very low damping factor, so for orthos, in theory, there is no real need for low amp’s output resistance – if there is enough power. But theories are just that, theories. Human hearing and amp-HP interaction maybe is far more complex. 
post #1542 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by plin View Post

 

 

My thoughts exactly! Proof of this is that you can use your HE-500 as a mic (and a very good one)! Just connect the 3.5mm TRS jack to your soundcard’s mic input and start recording. Audeze has already made a similar product.


 

 

You just blew my mind.

post #1543 of 18021

After 30 hours burn in, I've decided that the HE500s are not for me, and I'm disappointed with the nasal sound. Luckily, I'll be able to return them for a full refund. I measured the impedance and it was 45.1ohms for right and 44.6ohms for left.

If the sound of my balanced 701s are 10, the HE500s in comparison are 7.5/10 at best

For my tastes, the 701 is much more refined throughout the frequency range, and with the EQ I've applied to them, there's more bass and less bright top end.

I never liked the Auzede headphones, and the similar sound of the HE500s shows that I'm not one for the Planarmagnetic sound.

I know I'm in the minority here, but my friend agreed that the HE500s were no match for my 701s running from my NFB-10SE.

I sincerely recommend that if you're interested in buying the HE500s, go to a high-end audio store near you and try to audition the Audeze LCD3s.. IMO, the HE500s are very similar in sound with the exception that they have more top end.

Sorry to potential buyers if my comments are off-putting... just trying to be honest with my experience :)

post #1544 of 18021
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorpug View Post

After 30 hours burn in, I've decided that the HE500s are not for me, and I'm disappointed with the nasal sound. Luckily, I'll be able to return them for a full refund. I measured the impedance and it was 45.1ohms for right and 44.6ohms for left.

If the sound of my balanced 701s are 10, the HE500s in comparison are 7.5/10 at best

 

 

I agree... though... I never had an amp that could drive them properly... and... I didn't even burn them in for 30 hrs - which I'm pretty sure means I never heard the HE500's that several others have heard.  So... I've reserved my opinion, since I suspect it's not based on their true sound - since I doubt my experience with them (cognitive dissonance, etc.), is representative of their true sound.    


Edited by Gradofan2 - 6/25/12 at 9:09am
post #1545 of 18021

Used a digital multimeter to measure my HE-500 impedance using the TRS and measured 34.5 and 34.7. That just confirmed my distinct impression that the drivers were well-matched. They are also very close to manufacturer specs I am somewhat wondering about the wild numbers some have been measuring and just how accurate those readings are - just saying (there is really no QC for multiple diverse measurements so a grain of salt when reading these is worth it).

 

floorpug, "nasal sound" is far away from any way I would describe the HE500 SQ. "organic, full-bodied, warm" etc come to mind. I got my HE-500 in 12/2011 and took an experimental and circuitous route to finally get them properly matched with an amp. Right now I am playing them via a vintage Pioneer SX-650 straight out of the speaker taps (no resistors) and the sound is simply out of this world. These HPs need sufficient power (5-10 watts in my historical view) and that is one thing I took fairly for-granted early on. The SX-650 is pumping 35 watts into the headphone so at 34.6 ohms (my set), the drivers are getting 8 watts - that's an ummph of power and the headphones are really telling it. Anyway, I feel you may have given up too early on the HE-500s. Before you let them go try taking the NFB-10SE out of the equation and try different amps with them (also if you haven't done so already try them balanced out of the NFB-10SE - I think you would get 6.5 watts into 38 ohms using the balanced out). My 0.02 .....
 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. .