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HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening. . - Page 909

post #13621 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post

Can you explain what you mean, Nevod?

 

I've had an (unfounded) thought that perhaps, current-out (i.e. very high output impedance, current source) amps could increase isolation in open-back isodynamic headphones by "stabilising" the membrane, counteracting EMF created by external sound on the membrane. It's unfounded and I can't erally unwrap the idea to figure out how it should be in theory, so I wanted to hear from anyone who have tried an current-out amplifier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

Not sure if I understand, the vast majority of amps are voltage-driven.  The one exception that comes to mind is the FirstWatt F4, that's a pure current buffer with <1 voltage gain.  Relies on the gain provided by the preamp for functioning though.

Yes, most amps are voltage amplifiers, with low output impedance. Some however, are voltage-controlled current sources, with output current proportional to input voltage and high output impedance. Current buffers are not these, as they have low output impedance. IIRC, the FirstWatt FW1 was/is a high output impedance design.

post #13622 of 14529

I have the HE-500 since January and I'm really happy with them. I use them with a Audio GD NFB-28 in balanced mode and I think It's a great combo for not a lot of money. In the past I had the Audeze LCD-2 which are really good also, but finally when I bought the Hifimans, I sold them, because they were quite uncomfortable for me, and the sound signature was not of my preferences.

 

I also tried the HE-6 and they are great, but they need sooooo much power that even my Audio GD which is really powerful can´t push them to the 100%.

post #13623 of 14529

Great rig, nserra! That's probably one of the most cost-effective, close-to-summit-fi rigs one can get.

post #13624 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevod View Post
 

 

I've had an (unfounded) thought that perhaps, current-out (i.e. very high output impedance, current source) amps could increase isolation in open-back isodynamic headphones by "stabilising" the membrane, counteracting EMF created by external sound on the membrane. It's unfounded and I can't erally unwrap the idea to figure out how it should be in theory, so I wanted to hear from anyone who have tried an current-out amplifier.

Yes, most amps are voltage amplifiers, with low output impedance. Some however, are voltage-controlled current sources, with output current proportional to input voltage and high output impedance. Current buffers are not these, as they have low output impedance. IIRC, the FirstWatt FW1 was/is a high output impedance design.

You're right about the F1/F1-J, very unusual design that is.  And you might be onto something, at least theoretically a current source *could* give you most control as it allows you to put aside many of the elements at play that determine a voltage source interaction with the driver.

 

Have you read this?

 

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf

post #13625 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

You're right about the F1/F1-J, very unusual design that is.  And you might be onto something, at least theoretically a current source *could* give you most control as it allows you to put aside many of the elements at play that determine a voltage source interaction with the driver.

 

Have you read this?

 

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf

That paper is biased to their point of view. The part about overdamping produces less bass is manipulative as damping keeps the bass tight and accurate, underdamping results in what many call flabby bass. There is nothing bad about an amp having a very low output impedance. A current mode amp can have distortion and nonliearities, it is not magically cleaner than another design, that is up to the individual design. The part about tubes, SS amps and transistor radios is another weak attempt at manipuling the reader's opinion. Some of that paper is interesting.

post #13626 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

That paper is biased to their point of view. The part about overdamping produces less bass is manipulative as damping keeps the bass tight and accurate, underdamping results in what many call flabby bass. There is nothing bad about an amp having a very low output impedance. A current mode amp can have distortion and nonliearities, it is not magically cleaner than another design, that is up to the individual design. The part about tubes, SS amps and transistor radios is another weak attempt at manipuling the reader's opinion. Some of that paper is interesting.

Well, it's not my business to defend them but they never say that current drive is the only good solution, only that it's a way of doing things that has certain advantages (and to be sure, disadvantages too) that's rarely used nowadays.  And there's little arguing that Nelson Pass knows how to build an amplifier.  Specifically for the F1(-J) there are a couple of guys who use it to drive their HE-6 and I sure didn't hear any complaints from that side so far, never mind the impedance/damping mismatch.  

post #13627 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

Well, it's not my business to defend them but they never say that current drive is the only good solution, only that it's a way of doing things that has certain advantages (and to be sure, disadvantages too) that's rarely used nowadays.  And there's little arguing that Nelson Pass knows how to build an amplifier.  Specifically for the F1(-J) there are a couple of guys who use it to drive their HE-6 and I sure didn't hear any complaints from that side so far, never mind the impedance/damping mismatch.  

Planars like the HE-6, 500 and so on are resistive so are not so prone to impedance curve variation as a dynamic. Also the nature of an ortho might not need so much damping. I've read that certain dynamics use their magnets to help with damping, don't know if that's all so true.

post #13628 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Planars like the HE-6, 500 and so on are resistive so are not so prone to impedance curve variation as a dynamic. Also the nature of an ortho might not need so much damping. I've read that certain dynamics use their magnets to help with damping, don't know if that's all so true.

Well aware of the flat impedance curve across the frequency band of a planar but that doesn't change the physics of the fields induced in the metal tracers and their potential action on the diaphragm.  There was an interesting discussion about just this in the sound science forum recently iirc and some of the guys presented some -theoretically- pretty convincing arguments although my personal opinion -which I hasten to say I can't substantiate- here is that they're considering matters too much from a strictly electrical field view but omit taking into consideration the different purely mechanical damping aspects due to the structure.  Anyway, clearly proving or disproving the theory would require both more knowledge and gear than I have available so I won't argue the point.

post #13629 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

Well aware of the flat impedance curve across the frequency band of a planar but that doesn't change the physics of the fields induced in the metal tracers and their potential action on the diaphragm.  There was an interesting discussion about just this in the sound science forum recently iirc and some of the guys presented some -theoretically- pretty convincing arguments although my personal opinion -which I hasten to say I can't substantiate- here is that they're considering matters too much from a strictly electrical field view but omit taking into consideration the different purely mechanical damping aspects due to the structure.  Anyway, clearly proving or disproving the theory would require both more knowledge and gear than I have available so I won't argue the point.

Since I don't have any issues with either my HE-500, HD600 or amplification, DACs, etc., I promise not to lose any sleep over this. I suspect that you are not up late at night over this either.

post #13630 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by nserra View Post
 

I have the HE-500 since January and I'm really happy with them. I use them with a Audio GD NFB-28 in balanced mode and I think It's a great combo for not a lot of money. In the past I had the Audeze LCD-2 which are really good also, but finally when I bought the Hifimans, I sold them, because they were quite uncomfortable for me, and the sound signature was not of my preferences.

 

I also tried the HE-6 and they are great, but they need sooooo much power that even my Audio GD which is really powerful can´t push them to the 100%.

I have an audio gd 11.32 on the way, going to compare it to my tube amp for a bit, The he-500 replaced my hd-650..............I am curious about the dac on the audio gd as well, will compare that to my schiit bifrost

 

I read a lot of good thoughts on the audio gd, figured what the heck:D

post #13631 of 14529

My third cable broke recently. I'm sick an tired of this. Which cheap cable do you recommend that doesn't break at the connector end?

post #13632 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennGulda View Post

My third cable broke recently. I'm sick an tired of this. Which cheap cable do you recommend that doesn't break at the connector end?
Am sorry to hear that...i dont know how u treat ur cables but if they break with normal usage then u really have to think in getting a bit better quality cables. If ur rough on ur stuff then even a multi million cable will protect u against another cable break at the connector, as the connector will always be the weak point of any cable.

I swear on toxic cables..i had and still have couple of them..and some go back 2 years..they are stepped on while being pulled, a cat played with it , they even survived little kids and best of all they are used daily for at least 2 hours a day..and not once my last cable disappointed me! So maybe u should try one? Maybe a second hand one? Or one of his budget models? Check their thread to find out whats that brand is all about..
Good luck with it!
Edited by hifimanrookie - 5/12/14 at 6:07pm
post #13633 of 14529

For the life of me, I can't imagine how one would break 3 pair of the stock Hifiman cables while normally using them...  I'm not overly cautious with my gear but it never happened to me.  My HE-500 was acquired with a pair of toxic cables, construction is not bad but I don't think they'll be much stronger than stock.

 

Perhaps look at a pair of Forza Audioworks cables and have them hardwired.  Or be more cautious or switch to a pair of bluetooth headphones.

post #13634 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennGulda View Post
 

My third cable broke recently. I'm sick an tired of this. Which cheap cable do you recommend that doesn't break at the connector end?

 

If you're that tough on cables, you might want to consider the DIY path.  An excellent sounding cable can be made for relatively little money.  To me, that makes more sense than paying a lot for a cable that you might just break again.  By making your own, you can repair or simply redo the connector ends, if they break.

 

FWIW, I haven't broken either of my HFM cables that I made.

post #13635 of 14529
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennGulda View Post
 

My third cable broke recently. I'm sick an tired of this. Which cheap cable do you recommend that doesn't break at the connector end?

There is a known issue with the TRS end of the stock SPC cables (a friend of mine had problems with his too) and it's just a QC/manufacturing issue.  I agree with Thurston though, a fairly simple remedy is to do a little DIY and re-terminate with a new TRS jack which you can reinforce so long as the rest of the cable appears to be OK.  If you've still got the cable handy, I'd be able to advise you or fix it for you if you'd want to send it to me and cover the cost of shipping and a new connector.  Definitely less expensive versus buying a whole new cable IMO...just shoot me a PM if interested!

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