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post #12631 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Maybe on this as u call it mid-fi thread... biggrin.gif

I had have had 6 cables until now..and on my rig u certainly hear differences in how they sounded..or better said..how they let sound through..

it was no placebo effect! Same thing could be said for the jergpads! Are those differences placebo effect? Some say it is..no matter how its meassured..

but as always..if u have a mediocre amp/dac (mid-fi..of only a few hundred usd) u wont hear any improvement on cables etc..as those cables only improve (or make worse!) the soundexperience in a small way and only if u go up in quality (am not talking about price..BUT QUALITY) u will hear differences...

as i once said..on the humble mstage i once had i almost didnt hear differences between a double helix cable and the standard silver plated copper cable..except for better quality and less microphonics and better looking..but when i went to the modified 337 with TS tubes i could hear differences very easily when changing cables..

only one cable didnt improve sound as far my experience...USB cabling...

but powercables (good ones) and headphonecables change the soundsignature for the better or for the worse... But it all depends on ur rig to let it through..

.its like a car..standard 1.1l budget cars can use premium octane 95 and 98 or even 100.. But u wont feel any change how it drives..BUT..if u change ur gas from octane 95 to 100 on a turbo charged modified engine u will see changes in how it picks up and goes through the gears and in my case i found out it drives more economical also when driving on octane 100.. (That was a huge surprise!) And thats no placebo effect as it directly affects my wallet when i drive a (at least) 280hp car. biggrin.gif

Its same thing with amps and the rest of ur rig...if its just mediocre..no matter how good it is for the price...its just a waste of time and money to tune it more with cables etc..u wont hear it..and if u do its indeed placebo..or partly placebo... Imho ofcourse

but u know me..am like the lone ranger here on this thread the last few months tongue.gif

The difference between earpad modifications and different (and equally well-made) cables is incomparably huge. Earpads are to headphone drivers, as enclosure designs are to speaker drivers; meaning they are integral to the final sound signature and quality for better or worse.

 

People have tried measuring differences in cables objectively for audio and I think the farthest they got was some minor (sub- 1dB) broadband attenuations, mostly due to difference in cable impedance.

post #12632 of 14664

Like some like to think, the more you spend, the more you have to hear. :eek: 

Unless your cable is racked with excess capacitance, IMO there's nothing to get worked up about. I would say that earpads can have an acoustical difference which is more difficult to characterize or achieve.


Edited by StanD - 2/28/14 at 9:25am
post #12633 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Like some like to think, the more you spend, the more you have to hear. :eek: 


Pretty much, cept it might be something more like this:

 

Quote:
 For many, the more you read at Head-Fi, the more you want to believe, the more you spend, the more you have to hear.
post #12634 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Like some like to think, the more you spend, the more you have to hear. :eek: 

Unless your cable is racked with excess capacitance, IMO there's nothing to get worked up about. I would say that earpads can have an acoustical difference which is more difficult to characterize or achieve.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post
 


Pretty much, cept it might be something more like this:

 

 For many, the more you read at Head-Fi, the more you want to believe, the more you spend, the more you have to hear.

I could go along with that.

post #12635 of 14664

I really hate to say it, but cables can make a difference if your system is revealing enough...and I'm not talking mid fi HE-500 stuff. At least something like a LCD-3 on a $10,000 rig (NAD+Luxman) I've heard, there is a difference between the stock cable and my upgraded HPL silver and Norse copper. 

 

Although HE-500 on a Emotiva might not yield that. I certainly didn't feel much. Although the stock HE-500 cable was a pain in the ass to deal with physically.

post #12636 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

I really hate to say it, but cables can make a difference if your system is revealing enough...and I'm not talking mid fi HE-500 stuff. At least something like a LCD-3 on a $10,000 rig (NAD+Luxman) I've heard, there is a difference between the stock cable and my upgraded HPL silver and Norse copper. 

 

Although HE-500 on a Emotiva might not yield that. I certainly didn't feel much. Although the stock HE-500 cable was a pain in the ass to deal with physically.

IMO, at the most a headphone cable will form a low pass filter and supress high frequencies. If the capcitance in the cable forms a frequency corner in the RF, no human being is going to hear it, uber hifi or low fi, wont' make a difference. The amount of capacitance required at headphone impedances to intrude into the audio spectrum is rather large for such cables. You would have to find and purchase a really bad cable for this to happen.


Edited by StanD - 2/28/14 at 10:15am
post #12637 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

I really hate to say it, but cables can make a difference if your system is revealing enough...and I'm not talking mid fi HE-500 stuff. At least something like a LCD-3 on a $10,000 rig (NAD+Luxman) I've heard, there is a difference between the stock cable and my upgraded HPL silver and Norse copper. 

Although HE-500 on a Emotiva might not yield that. I certainly didn't feel much. Although the stock HE-500 cable was a pain in the ass to deal with physically.
Thanks Thats what i also wanted to point out...and those tests people do to test if a cable can sound different or not..NEVER ever found a test done on really good stuff..most of them are done on midfi stuff or only measured on technical equipment...funny is that on higher end forums everyone..YES everyone...believes in cable improvements....the stories about cables not adding anything is put into the world by people who are only technical based or are biassed for mid-fi stuff... Or people owning higher end stuff are all deaf and have mass placebo sickness..and whyh do audio specilists only use high end cabling for their stuff and not just 1dollar cables? Oh well..this is a debate no one agrees on..so lets stop here... wink.gif
post #12638 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Thanks Thats what i also wanted to point out...and those tests people do to test if a cable can sound different or not..NEVER ever found a test done on really good stuff..most of them are done on midfi stuff or only measured on technical equipment...funny is that on higher end forums everyone..YES everyone...believes in cable improvements....the stories about cables not adding anything is put into the world by people who are only technical based or are biassed for mid-fi stuff... Or people owning higher end stuff are all deaf and have mass placebo sickness..and whyh do audio specilists only use high end cabling for their stuff and not just 1dollar cables? Oh well..this is a debate no one agrees on..so lets stop here... wink.gif

The principles of passive networks is the first thing one learns in Electrical Engineering, very basic stuff. That's what happens with cables and headphones. You could use lamp cord and get the same results, OK, we're done for now. :D

You still waiting for that damned amp? And when's that mini-cooper getting delivered for your wife?

post #12639 of 14664

I'm going to make a HFM cable from some Mogami W2799 (and one for my Q701s, once I dertermine to correct pinouts for AKG; seems it's not standard).  If I don't butcher it too badly, and can't hear any difference, I may be selling my plusSounds cable.

post #12640 of 14664

Think of what capacitor's reactance is the same as the headphone's impedance, just to ball park it. In the case of an HE-500 the impedance curve is flat, it's resistive at 38 Ohms. You would need a 208 nF capacitance to have a 38 Ohm reactance at 20 kHz. That be a very long cable of the cheapest possible stuff.

post #12641 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

I really hate to say it, but cables can make a difference if your system is revealing enough...and I'm not talking mid fi HE-500 stuff. At least something like a LCD-3 on a $10,000 rig (NAD+Luxman) I've heard, there is a difference between the stock cable and my upgraded HPL silver and Norse copper. 

 

Although HE-500 on a Emotiva might not yield that. I certainly didn't feel much. Although the stock HE-500 cable was a pain in the ass to deal with physically.

Most things can make a difference if your system is revealing enough and you have an acute-enough ear. At that point what matters is the magnitude of difference, and that goes back to my point that changing cables are a couple of magnitudes down in terms of sonic impact, relative to other things like changing amps (namely SS <-> tubes, as well as low power <-> high power) or earpads.

 

Even with the most revealing system, people with less analytical/acute hearing may still be unable to detect difference between cables, and end up falling into the placebo/nocebo trap.


Edited by jerg - 2/28/14 at 10:39am
post #12642 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurstonX View Post
 

I'm going to make a HFM cable from some Mogami W2799 (and one for my Q701s, once I dertermine to correct pinouts for AKG; seems it's not standard).  If I don't butcher it too badly, and can't hear any difference, I may be selling my plusSounds cable.

It's a very low capitance and if it's as flexible as they say, you should be a happy camper. If you can learn to solder well, you can start your own custom cable business.

post #12643 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

The principles of passive networks is the first thing one learns in Electrical Engineering, very basic stuff. That's what happens with cables and headphones. You could use lamp cord and get the same results, OK, we're done for now. biggrin.gif
You still waiting for that damned amp? And when's that mini-cooper getting delivered for your wife?
Amp is sent off today from the states. By usps..so hope to have it within 2weeks..mini cooper?..not this year..probably next year..if she is nice enough to me... wink.gif
as this year is big expenses on our new home (it will be finished in september) and i gave her carte blanche for the interior of the house...within our budget ofourse..so no credit card purchases! biggrin.gif so she is happy like a small kid... biggrin.gif
Edited by hifimanrookie - 2/28/14 at 10:59am
post #12644 of 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Amp is sent off today from the states. By usps..so hope to have it within 2weeks..mini cooper?..not this year..probably next year..if she is nice enough to me... wink.gif
as this year is big expenses on our new home (it will be finished in september) and i gave her carte blanche for the interior of the house...within our budget ofourse..so no credit card purchases! biggrin.gif so she is happy like a small kid... biggrin.gif

Wow, you must be really excited that the amp is actually on the way. I hope you left some money in the budget for a new Thurston Cable.

post #12645 of 14664

lol.  Here we are with the cable debate again.  :D

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