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Review: Violectric HPA V200 amp - Page 186

post #2776 of 2790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrow View Post


That would explain some inconsistencies as you mentioned.

Would it be fair to say though that dac producers, say, wanting a more neutral detailed dac would more often than not go to, say a sabre dac? ie would something like that play to a dacs strengths or would what the dac itself brings into the equation not be a majority of the influence?

I appreciate your info on these factors
Peter

 

 

It's tough to make a generalization like that. I feel like any one I come up with is fundamentally flawed. Each chip has its own specs, its own complexities, its own requirements. Integrating that chip within the confines of a successful design which accomplishes the designer's intent - that is the goal. And it's easier said than done. Does your design call for current or voltage output? Integrated line driver? Low power draw? Built-in digital receiver? What are the clocking requirements? Can it be easily customized to disable the internal filter or upsampler, should your design have a custom filtering or upsampling? There are many things to consider. 

 

I'm convinced a skilled designer could make a good to great DAC with any chip, and likewise a poor designer could screw up even the most elite chip on the market. 

 

Plus, there are other concerns to be weighed.

 

Cost: the top ESS Sabre chips go for quite a bit more than the competition. Paying $30/chip doesn't sound like much but compared to less than $10/chip for much of the competition, multiplied by the thousands of units you hope to sell.... it adds up.

 

Marketing: ESS is hot right now. The top Cirrus or Wolfson chips are perceived by some as old/unremarkable. So even if they may be the best fit in your design, they may not fit from a marketing standpoint. Then again, there's a bit of backlash among some groups, so Sabre is not necessarily a sure thing either. 

 

Supply: The TI PCM1704 is discontinued and harder to come by in large batches. That would have to be figured out. Even newer, mainstream chips may be hard to source from reliable suppliers at certain times. You don't want your product on backorder for something as simple as this, nor do you want to be forced to revise your DAC 1 year into the life cycle because TI changed from PCM1792 to PCM1792A which called for tiny changes to be made. 

 

 

See where I'm going with this? You gotta judge each DAC on its merit and not simply the brand of chips involved. 

post #2777 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post


It's tough to make a generalization like that. I feel like any one I come up with is fundamentally flawed. Each chip has its own specs, its own complexities, its own requirements. Integrating that chip within the confines of a successful design which accomplishes the designer's intent - that is the goal. And it's easier said than done. Does your design call for current or voltage output? Integrated line driver? Low power draw? Built-in digital receiver? What are the clocking requirements? Can it be easily customized to disable the internal filter or upsampler, should your design have a custom filtering or upsampling? There are many things to consider. 

I'm convinced a skilled designer could make a good to great DAC with any chip, and likewise a poor designer could screw up even the most elite chip on the market. 

Plus, there are other concerns to be weighed.

Cost: the top ESS Sabre chips go for quite a bit more than the competition. Paying $30/chip doesn't sound like much but compared to less than $10/chip for much of the competition, multiplied by the thousands of units you hope to sell.... it adds up.

Marketing: ESS is hot right now. The top Cirrus or Wolfson chips are perceived by some as old/unremarkable. So even if they may be the best fit in your design, they may not fit from a marketing standpoint. Then again, there's a bit of backlash among some groups, so Sabre is not necessarily a sure thing either. 

Supply: The TI PCM1704 is discontinued and harder to come by in large batches. That would have to be figured out. Even newer, mainstream chips may be hard to source from reliable suppliers at certain times. You don't want your product on backorder for something as simple as this, nor do you want to be forced to revise your DAC 1 year into the life cycle because TI changed from PCM1792 to PCM1792A which called for tiny changes to be made. 


See where I'm going with this? You gotta judge each DAC on its merit and not simply the brand of chips involved. 
Thanks again for info. So much for narrowing dac choices down in a simple manner.

This will help in terms of how to approach future upgrades of amps and/or dacs.

Also thanks for your reviews on this site. I've looked over the matrix x sabre review a few times and tge comparisons available there are great.
post #2778 of 2790
Recieved my v200 yesterday. Currently have no desktop dac, so the only acceptable source in my house was prehistoric dvd player from early 2005. And the only CD disc, that i could find was... Pet (if you heard Crow City of angels OST, you proably know this).
on 6db gain v200 pushed HE500s far beyond driven, with volume knob, turned half it's way. My ears could take no step further smily_headphones1.gif
The sad side of this story, that lg g2 smarthphone can't give enough power trough headphone out to feed v200.
Notebook was better in that mean, almost good, as dvd player, but the sound...

It will takes up to two months for me to earn extra bucks on matrix x sabre. So it will be two monts of Pet and Lisa Papineau O______O
Edited by Rockcoon - 7/11/15 at 11:55pm
post #2779 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcoon View Post

Recieved my v200 yesterday. Currently have no desktop dac, so the only acceptable source in my house was prehistoric dvd player from early 2005. And the only CD disc, that i could find was... Pet (if you heard Crow City of angels OST, you proably know this).
on 6db gain v200 pushed HE500s far beyond driven, with volume knob, turned half it's way. My ears could take no step further smily_headphones1.gif
The sad side of this story, that lg g2 smarthphone can't give enough power trough headphone out to feed v200.
Notebook was better in that mean, almost good, as dvd player, but the sound...

It will takes up to two months for me to earn extra bucks on matrix x sabre. So it will be two monts of Pet and Lisa Papineau O______O
My v200 is now on the way. Found one on ebay.

I'll know in a week or so how the arcam irdac will match up with it.
post #2780 of 2790
Quote:
My v200 is now on the way. Found one on ebay.

I'll know in a week or so how the arcam irdac will match up with it.
I did not dissapointed in v200, despite that have no normal source to feed it. It's powerful, smooth, lush and "meaty" cool.gif

Would realy like to hear your impressions from v200+ irdac combo. So far I decidet to go with x sabre. But who knows...
post #2781 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcoon View Post

I did not dissapointed in v200, despite that have no normal source to feed it. It's powerful, smooth, lush and "meaty" cool.gif

Would realy like to hear your impressions from v200+ irdac combo. So far I decidet to go with x sabre. But who knows...
youve probably read it already but @project86 has written an extensive comparative review on the x sabre dac that highlights its value.
post #2782 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrow View Post

youve probably read it already but @project86 has written an extensive comparative review on the x sabre dac that highlights its value.
Yep, read it, and even post in the thread. Never saw negative feedback on Xsabre. It's good from build quality to the sound.
post #2783 of 2790

Any recommendations for modern a DAC that will pair well with the V200 in the $600-1000 range?

post #2784 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingruentem View Post
 

Any recommendations for modern a DAC that will pair well with the V200 in the $600-1000 range?


Audio_GD DAC19DSP does brilliant with V200 (now you can buy the 10th Anniversary version with much better USB!)


Edited by Quinto - 8/11/15 at 12:42pm
post #2785 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinto View Post
 


Audio_GD DAC19DSP does brilliant with V200 (now you can buy the 10th Anniversary version with much better USB!)

 

Thanks for the recommendation.  I've also read some great things about the 10.32 Anniversary.  I'm leaning towards one of the following DACs at the moment:

 

Matrix X-Sabre
Anedio D2
Resonessence Labs Concero

 

Has anyone heard any of them with the V200 that might be able to weigh in on which DAC sound signature would better compliment the V200?

 

(FYI, planning to use with HE500, HD600, HE400)

post #2786 of 2790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingruentem View Post
 

 

Thanks for the recommendation.  I've also read some great things about the 10.32 Anniversary.  I'm leaning towards one of the following DACs at the moment:

 

Matrix X-Sabre
Anedio D2
Resonessence Labs Concero

 

Has anyone heard any of them with the V200 that might be able to weigh in on which DAC sound signature would better compliment the V200?

 

(FYI, planning to use with HE500, HD600, HE400)

 

 

Had all three at one point. All sound very good. I'd say Concero is probably the best value, and could be ideal if you don't have use for more inputs and outputs and options. Just a simple, no frills, small device with no headphone amp, that doesn't take up much space. Honestly any of them will pair very well with V200 though. Anedio is the most detailed, X-Sabre the most exciting, and Concero probably closer to Anedio but not quite as transparent. 

post #2787 of 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post
 

 

 

Had all three at one point. All sound very good. I'd say Concero is probably the best value, and could be ideal if you don't have use for more inputs and outputs and options. Just a simple, no frills, small device with no headphone amp, that doesn't take up much space. Honestly any of them will pair very well with V200 though. Anedio is the most detailed, X-Sabre the most exciting, and Concero probably closer to Anedio but not quite as transparent. 

 

After careful consideration I think I'm going with the Anedio.  I'm looking forward to comparing and contrasting with my current Schiit Modi / Vali.  Thanks for the feedback!

post #2788 of 2790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingruentem View Post
 

 

After careful consideration I think I'm going with the Anedio.  I'm looking forward to comparing and contrasting with my current Schiit Modi / Vali.  Thanks for the feedback!

 

Excellent choice, you'll love it!

post #2789 of 2790

I've got a Violectric V100, but recently noticed that the left output jack has a slightly grainier sound than the right output jack? Anyone else perhaps noticed this on their V100/V200 units? Do the two outputs differ by design or is there perhaps something faulty with the one output?

 

I've always had my headphones plugged in on the left since I've gotten the amplifier and never really used the right one and thought it was just part of the sound signature, or perhaps not entirely gelling with the Concero.. With the Theta in the loop though it became really noticeable. Now using the right output the graininess disappeared entirely. A surprising find to be honest.

 

Edit: See I had the pre gain still set to +6dB for the Concero for it low output, that wouldn't have helped matters. I'd suggest setting the pre gain to the lowest setting possible. Now using -12dB pre gain with the Theta and is sounding very good now.


Edited by daerron - 8/16/15 at 2:31am
post #2790 of 2790
FWIW, my mint V200 is listed in the forum classifieds:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/779185/fs-violectric-v200
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