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Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo - Discussion and Impressions Thread - Page 103

post #1531 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvo614 View Post

You gotta compare the copper vs silver. The silver is faster. And sounds brighter. While copper is warm dull and dark.its preference though. Mine is pure silver occ 7n from toxic cables. Makes music sound more alive. Silver is best conductor of electricity. sounds amazing too!

 

you should try the toxic cable silver poison 7n up-occ silver/gold

 

i went from the ALO sxc24 super annealed usb to lod to toxic cable silver poison usb to lod

 

and also went from alo sxc24 super annealed mini to mini to toxic cable silver poison mini to mini 

 

and it made a HUGE difference. brighter mids and brighter highs, clear vocals, definitly worth it, but very expensive

post #1532 of 1650
I'm still holding strong that a digital cable will not alter the sonic signature depending on the conductor chemistries/fabrication method that is used - this is my opinion based on science and what I hear. I don't know why others cling to the notion that differing cable construction materials and methods can/do affect the sonic signature when using digital cables - if you can hear the difference by just switching a digital cable, you're likely to be experiencing a new facet of quantum physics. It's just so simple of a concept - that a working digital cable will transmit the exact same digital stream regardless of what the materials are and how the conductors and cable were built. I don't think it can be be any more obvious than the fact that a 1 is always a 1 and a 0 is always a 0 with a properly working digital cable.

I have compared the 'specialty' USB cable built by Moon Audio for my new CLAS with the stock Lightning LOD that Cypher Labs supplied. As expected, there is no difference in the sound signature - both cables are fully functional digital cables and they both transmit the exact same stream of 1's and 0's when transporting the same source file. It's only once the digital stream has been converted to analog that conductor chemistry and fabrication techniques can influence the sonic signature. The balanced Black Dragon interconnect that takes the line level analog output of my CLAS and feeds it to the balanced line level input of my RSA Intruder is an example of an analog cable that could affect the sonic signature.

This topic will always remain controversial, especially for those that have to justify their high-priced digital cables while I can achieve the same result with a $3 cable from Radio Shack or Monoprice. All I can say is now that my original problem with the EQ is resolved, my hi-res audio played back over an inexpensive USB LOD via the CLAS for D to A and the Intruder for balanced amplification is providing me with a great deal of audio listening pleasure. I'll be happy to purchase other analog cables if/when I deem them necessary to alter the sound. smily_headphones1.gif

Dale
post #1533 of 1650
Its detailing the sound IMO
post #1534 of 1650
And raising the -db level.
post #1535 of 1650
I never liked alo lod. The alo bands are tight though.toxic cables are awesome. Stock original cables suck IMO.
post #1536 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

you should try the toxic cable silver poison 7n up-occ silver/gold

i went from the ALO sxc24 super annealed usb to lod to toxic cable silver poison usb to lod

and also went from alo sxc24 super annealed mini to mini to toxic cable silver poison mini to mini 

and it made a HUGE difference. brighter mids and brighter highs, clear vocals, definitly worth it, but very expensive
Yes I have the silver with gold called silver widow and poison interconnects. I noticed difference switching from copper stock to silver immediately.
post #1537 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentXXL View Post


I have compared the 'specialty' USB cable built by Moon Audio for my new CLAS with the stock Lightning LOD that Cypher Labs supplied. As expected, there is no difference in the sound signature - both cables are fully functional digital cables and they both transmit the exact same stream of 1's and 0's when transporting the same source file. It's only once the digital stream has been converted to analog that conductor chemistry and fabrication techniques can influence the sonic signature. The balanced Black Dragon interconnect that takes the line level analog output of my CLAS and feeds it to the balanced line level input of my RSA Intruder is an example of an analog cable that could affect the sonic signature.



Dale

I actually owned the Moon audio specialty cable you talk of and i replaced it because i couldn't tell the difference between the cheap Fostex HP-P1 cable and that one.  It was a waste of money for me.  I replaced it with a Venturecraft cable that i love and do hear better sound from.   Otherwise, I hear differences with some, like one of my digital cable from my converter for usb to coax that takes the signal to my home dac but not from my home usb to that converter, at least that i can distinguish.  So it is a mixed bag i guess.

post #1538 of 1650
Looks like you get what you paid for though 60 doller lod. I never saw that before.
post #1539 of 1650
I went to the other spectrum. I got kind of tired ofcthe original solo and I sold mine and I wanted to go to a -db however Im not a fan of akm chips, its just prefrence but NOW I sold my clas and ipod touch and have a iriver ihp-180 using a custom sys-concepts fiber optic cable to a ibasso db2 also have the ibasso pb2 and the ibasso p4 warbler and the Rsa sr-71b

So ive change up my game completely and webt to fiber optic out instead of the ipods lod out . I find it a little more techy and low profile with the river and db2.

Therr are aalways going to be people who cry foul and say cables make no difference those are either the people who havent tried them or tried them but have too much price to say they nake a difference
post #1540 of 1650
I love my clas -db ... It makes sonic improvements with the akm.
post #1541 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duartisimo View Post
 

Good to know that it sound just as good as a USB DAC! Well, maybe except for the whole USB cable thing.

Yeah.. I have a Cardas Clear USB (to mini B) 1.5m cable on order from TTVJ that should be shipped out later this week hopefully, lol. I'm hoping it will help to be an upgrade over the stock included USB mini-B (to PC/Mac) cable included with the CLAS -dB (although it's an OK cable, it's just any other generic stock USB cable I believe...)

 

Using the CLAS -dB with the Windows drivers Cypher Labs provides on their website (includes ASIO support), it works just fine as a USB DAC and has replaced my E-MU 0404 USB. Interestingly, the EMU 0404 usb also uses the same AKM AK4396 chip, but with a far less efficient interface, and doesn't sound as detailed and clear as the CLAS -dB... I used the Zu Pivot RCA -> mini on the EMU 0404 USB, and now a CablePro Reverie 1ft mini-to-mini for my CLAS -dB (to connect my SR-71.) The cables might make a difference, but the clarity and increased resolution along with what I perceive to be a more detailed dynamic range w/ the CLAS -dB makes it definitely worth it.

 

tbh, I purchased the CLAS -dB mostly to use as a USB/PC "portable" (or "desktop replacement") DAC, with the added option to connect iPhones/iPods. I have the HP-P1 to use solely w/ my iPhone, so yeah...

 

I haven't tried using the CLAS -dB yet with an iPhone or iDevice, mostly b/c I can't connect my Venturecraft 7n 30pin -> USB A connector to it due to the -dB's mini A input; the included mini A converter makes it nearly impossible to connect the iPhone normally w/ the Venturecraft cable due it turning the cable's connectors "upside down", and the 7n cable being too stiff to adjust to this. Not too interested in trying out the included 30pin cables tbqh, so I sent out a few emails to Toxic Cables to order a 30pin -> USB mini A silver poison cable which I'm hoping to order soon, lol. But yeah... I can also confirm that the Venturecraft 7n 30pin cable is a major improvement (especially in soundstage, details, less "muddy" sounding, etc.) over the stock Fostex 30pin cable (on the HP-P1), so I'm kind of a "believer" in the so-called digital cables I guess.

 

But yeah... the CLAS -dB works perfectly fine w/ ASIO ("64-bit drivers, high priority process" selected) in foobar2000, although if you're listening to 16/44.1 (or 24/44.1) files it doesn't necessarily mute non-foobar audio (ex. you can listen to YouTube videos at the same time when playing 16/44.1 or 24/44.1 files using ASIO in fb2k.) I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, although I don't mind at all... playing anything other than 44.1kHz files in foobar2000 w/ ASIO pretty much mutes all other audio like usual though. So far, so good :D


Edited by refault - 9/15/13 at 8:47pm
post #1542 of 1650

One small question that I've had w/ the CLAS though is whether to use it plugged in 24/7 to the wallwart charger/AC power, since I mostly use the -dB next to my laptop/PC. I've been keeping it connected into the power/AC pretty much all the time so far...

 

I've noticed that by leaving it connected to the power while on, the LED on the -dB alternates between the "charging" (aqua) color and the "charged" (purple) color quite often (I'm assuming b/c the CLAS runs solely off of the battery.) I e-mailed David as to whether or not I should leave it plugged in like this or unplug it from the AC power and run the battery down and then recharge it every so often, and he said that running it plugged into the AC charger all the time is fine, and to just make sure that the power cord is properly seated when plugged in.

 

So idk honestly... just wondering what most people seem to prefer (w/ the option to keep it plugged in all the time with alternating LED colors between the "charged" purple and "charging" aqua vs. running the battery down while not plugged into the AC charger, and then charging it back up every so often.)

 

At least the CLAS -dB works while the battery is being charged though... I've heard of some issues with other DACs (like the Sony PHA-1 iirc) that don't operate during charging, which honestly probably sucks lol.

post #1543 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by refault View Post
 

Yeah.. I have a Cardas Clear USB (to mini B) 1.5m cable on order from TTVJ that should be shipped out later this week hopefully, lol. I'm hoping it will help to be an upgrade over the stock included USB mini-B (to PC/Mac) cable included with the CLAS -dB (although it's an OK cable, it's just any other generic stock USB cable I believe...)

 

Using the CLAS -dB with the Windows drivers Cypher Labs provides on their website (includes ASIO support), it works just fine as a USB DAC and has replaced my E-MU 0404 USB. Interestingly, the EMU 0404 usb also uses the same AKM AK4396 chip, but with a far less efficient interface, and doesn't sound as detailed and clear as the CLAS -dB... I used the Zu Pivot RCA -> mini on the EMU 0404 USB, and now a CablePro Reverie 1ft mini-to-mini for my CLAS -dB (to connect my SR-71.) The cables might make a difference, but the clarity and increased resolution along with what I perceive to be a more detailed dynamic range w/ the CLAS -dB makes it definitely worth it.

 

tbh, I purchased the CLAS -dB mostly to use as a USB/PC "portable" (or "desktop replacement") DAC, with the added option to connect iPhones/iPods. I have the HP-P1 to use solely w/ my iPhone, so yeah...

 

I haven't tried using the CLAS -dB yet with an iPhone or iDevice, mostly b/c I can't connect my Venturecraft 7n 30pin -> USB A connector to it due to the -dB's mini A input; the included mini A converter makes it nearly impossible to connect the iPhone normally w/ the Venturecraft cable due it turning the cable's connectors "upside down", and the 7n cable being too stiff to adjust to this. Not too interested in trying out the included 30pin cables tbqh, so I sent out a few emails to Toxic Cables to order a 30pin -> USB mini A silver poison cable which I'm hoping to order soon, lol. But yeah... I can also confirm that the Venturecraft 7n 30pin cable is a major improvement (especially in soundstage, details, less "muddy" sounding, etc.) over the stock Fostex 30pin cable (on the HP-P1), so I'm kind of a "believer" in the so-called digital cables I guess.

 

But yeah... the CLAS -dB works perfectly fine w/ ASIO ("64-bit drivers, high priority process" selected) in foobar2000, although if you're listening to 16/44.1 (or 24/44.1) files it doesn't necessarily mute non-foobar audio (ex. you can listen to YouTube videos at the same time when playing 16/44.1 or 24/44.1 files using ASIO in fb2k.) I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, although I don't mind at all... playing anything other than 44.1kHz files in foobar2000 w/ ASIO pretty much mutes all other audio like usual though. So far, so good :D

WOW ok, i think that is all the info i need regarding the DAC´s capabilities. Thank you.

It's my only DAC and i wanted a reason not to buy another one again, and your opinions on this matter made me think i will not miss a thing my plugging it to my computer.

post #1544 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

Therr are aalways going to be people who cry foul and say cables make no difference those are either the people who havent tried them or tried them but have too much price to say they nake a difference

Without pointing fingers, there are always going to be people with more money than common sense. I'll gladly defer to their pocketbooks if they want to spend it indiscriminately by purchasing digital cables that scientifically are no better off than my $3 Radio Shack cable (ok, a little too sarcastic - even I won't stoop that low).

Me? I'll save my money and use it for buying and building my own quality analog cables and of course better source equipment, amplifiers and headphones that can make a difference in my music enjoyment.

I'll even go as far as building my own digital cables - not because they are an improvement in performance, but because I can build them to my own custom lengths and to aesthetics/functionality that suit my personal taste.

Dale
post #1545 of 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post


So I thought I'd share my thoughts on the CLAS -dB with a few different balanced amps and using different transports and ear/headphones. These are very early impressions and therefore not a full review of the CLAS -dB.



 



Left: CLAS -dB (pre-fix) + self-custom (workaround) ALO balanced IC + ALO Rx Mk3 + balanced FitEar 000 + FitEar TO GO! 334



Right: CLAS -dB (post-fix) + ALO balanced IC + RSA SR-71B + balanced Beat Audio Cronus + Unique Melody Merlin CIEM



 



1000



 



1000



 



Fostex TH-900 in single ended 1/4" -> 1/8" adapter :-



 



1000



 



The Good Things



 



Balanced All The Way Throughout



Oh my, once you've gotten balanced to work nicely, it's almost hard to go back! I'm a definitely a believer of portable balanced despite in theory it may not necessarily make sense. Even with IEMs I hear an improvement of "bigger sound" - bigger soundstage, tighter yet deeper bass, and airy trebles. And with the TH-900, it's even easier to discern despite using being single ended. If I dare say especially for IEMs, I find that the backend IC of SE vs balanced to be a greater difference than with IEM cables SE vs balanced. In other words, at least in my experience if you own IEMs balancing IEM cables yields less rewards than balancing the IC between the DAC and amp.



 



Some tracks such as HDTracks Buena Vista Social Club at 24/96 via PC USB sounds so involving. I've not compared to my iDevice version of the same album but despite iOS's 16/48kHz limitation, I don't think it'll make too much of a difference in this respect.



 



Some Thoughts Of Rx Mk3 vs SR-71B



I've mentioned on some other posts that despite owning the SR-71B I've never really been a fan of it and that's mainly because I've been using it in SE mode. In the past few months, I've tried balanced cables for my IEMs and I still wasn't satisfied with the SR-71B. So finally when the CLAS -dB appeared I finally could try a fully balanced setup with the SR-71B and it's only then that the SR-71B started to shine more. It seems to benefit more from a backend balanced IC than from the frontend balanced earphone cables. Or maybe the SR-71B is simply not so IEM friendly.



 



On a fully balanced setup of Rx Mk3 vs SR-71B, I think it's now more a merely of personal preference of taste rather than which one is more superior than the other. To me the Rx Mk3 still has the more modern Hi-Fi sound of great bass and treble emphasis whilst the SR-71B has a stronger mid focus. I'd consider my listening to be still somewhat more immature so for me, I'd go for the easy Rx Mk3 as my preferred sound for all the genre of music I listen to. However if I'm listening to specifically strong vocals such as Adele or Lana Del Rey, then I may enjoy the SR-71B a tad more (but not by much).



 



iDevice Battery Recharging



The battery recharging to me is an absolute bonus. So often my iPhone 4S battery drains quickly (especially on Tapatalk checking Head-Fi so regularly!!). So this battery charging is a huge blessing. But how is this different from my Go-DAP 4.0? The Go-DAP 4.0 (or X for that matter) runs out of juice in an hour despite having a 2200mAh battery whilst the iPhone 4S having a 1432mAh. This means David at CypherLabs has gotten something right about charging the iPhone. I don't know what size battery he uses but I think I'm more inclined to to think he's placed some thought and logic to charge the iPhone intelligently rather than just brute battery size.



 



Regardless, all the requests and questions potential customers have asked of how to switch off charging, to me it's no harm having the phone charging all the time. With a full iPhone 4S battery charge and the CLAS -dB plugged in, it lasts for 14 hrs. If the iPhone 4S is empty, the CLAS -dB charges the iPhone in 2 hrs 15 mins and still continues running to play music for a further 3 hrs at least (in my trials). So to I don't care if there's no switch to disable charging.



 



EDIT: I've snipped off the issue I had about the hum I got in high gain when using PC USB -> CLAS -dB -> Balanced IC -> Rx Mk3 -> headphone when touching the Rx Mk3 chassis. I think this hum is specific to my setup after talking to a few ppl. In addition, I don't use high gain for my setup, nor do I use the PC USB as much as I do with an iDevice.



 



Conclusion for Personal Use



 



When I've got my rig setup properly, I'm actually very happy with the setup and a fully balanced portable rig truly works. Balancing isn't for speaker or long cable setup but it seems even portable setups can benefit from it.


 



I am about to order CLAS -dB with ALO balanced interconnect but looks like it's bit short to me.
I emailed ALO, and they told me that the cable length is 2 inches, I want to place sr71b side by side not on top of CLAS, would that work with ALO balanced cable ?
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