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Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable - Page 185

post #2761 of 3640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anavel0 View Post


For $1000, with a granite base, that's the same price as a VPI Nomad. Where do I sign up for the group buy, haha.


Okay...here is your basic design...LOL...It really is not that hard (having built tables myself but not with outboard or granite).

 

About $150 to $200 for the granite. $200 for fabrication cuts and drilled. $50 for outboard motor. $125 for platter. $300 arm. $125 cabling .

 

post #2762 of 3640

Kickstarter?

post #2763 of 3640
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post
 

Kickstarter?


No thanks ! I have had enough self business in my life..

 

I am quite happy with the tables I have/have had/will have...LOL

 

I just bought a "Charlie Brown Christmas" turntable - Pioneer PL-600 which is a VERY sweet turntable...but had been left in a garage to gather dust.  I am going to wrap Linus's Christmas blanket around it and it will shine like the tree at Rockefeller Center...LOL

 

Metaphor anyone ?

post #2764 of 3640

Metatable?

post #2765 of 3640
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 

Metaphor anyone ?

Like a baby in a manger...

post #2766 of 3640

We better get back on topic before I get kicked out and become the shortest lived member of head-fi (hey, there is a thread !!! lol )

 

Nice Dual 721

 

 

And a Dual 604 which became a donor table for my DIY table build

post #2767 of 3640
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 

Analogsurvivor,

 

I certainly did not mean to imply you stopped enjoying the music. Not at all. What I was answering basically was you pointed out the pitfalls of turntables to the n'th degree which really applies to most equipment. But everyone has a budget and a level of acceptance.

 

I hear what you are saying and agree, it should be easier to address the items you listed, The Orbit has been mentioned here and it has achieved quite a lot for a budget turntable, SO if that much could be achieved for a $200 table, it seems logical one could build a $1000 table that addresses all you point out. But unless you have a granite plinth, magnetic air spindle bearing, offboard motor and anti-resonant arm...well, these guys have been making tables for years in all price ranges. And they obviously have bee acceptable to the greatest majority of people. For instance, though not my personal fave, the Techinics Sl1200MKII was the largest selling table of all time.

 

Anyway, people can and will enjoy the resurgence of vinyl regardless of budget...

 

Merry Christmas  to you maybe we'll get together and build my granite based table !!!

 

Rob

I agree with the above. 

 

But SL 1200/1210 is unfortunately the classic case of a really BAD good turntable. It certainly does have potential, as amply demonstrated by several modifications,

at various levels, that ultimately can lead to a stellar performing device. In principle, nothing wrong with it, inherently well conceived design, marred by implementation/execution  to ease the  production ultimately leading to a low cost reliable product. It takes mighty $$$ to correct its flaws. But in a stock form, it just does not sound right - and as always in cases of bad turntable, it gets even more unacceptable the higher quality cartridge one mounts on it. Better cart will simply pick up errors of the deck better, leading to very nervous and distorted  reproduction - which is the exact opposite of the expectations when changing the cart for a better one...

 

There is one CRUCIAL thing for which audiophilles have to thank the SL1200/1210 - it, almost single handedly, saw us trough the tough era for vinyl, say from 1985 to 2005, when only DJ demand was just high enough to keep vinyl pressing plants etc above water - BIG THANKS from us audiophiles is long overdue. It might have simply ended it all if the old warhorse SL1200/1210 was not so reliable, even when abused DJ style.

 

BIG THANKS to the "abusers", DJs, is also more than deserved.

 

There are Technics tables that have even more potential than SL 1200/1210 ( 1200/1210 is just the most numerous table on the planet, due to its immense suitability for DJing, but nowhere best in audiophile sense of what Technics used to build ) - but for a new $1000  table, good direct drive is way out of reach and reverting to the yo-yo belt drive will be inescapable. There is a very slim, almost impossible chance a rim drive design incorporating the necessary design criteria could be made - have not been investigating it yet, but it seems extremely unlikely. 

 

Direct drive, when done right, has so much going for it that I find anything else a compromise at best. But it can not be made for a grand - not in 201X .

 

All above said and done - a decent well taken care of vintage table or new Rega/Project/U-Turn entry level table with a decent cartridge on a gvood recorded LP in a decent system will always show CD its place. It is just the fact that vinyl replay can be made sounding MUCH better still - and 150+kg of stone/chrome/acrylics/whatever costing six figures is not the only way to achieve it. 

post #2768 of 3640
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post
 

Kickstarter?

It is the possibility - I am seriously considering it. 

 

I have several Kickstarters in my mind at the present - all have to do with the sound of music, trough the cans perched on our heads - LOL! 

 

Turntable is just one of the stones missing in that mosaic to be made better/perfect.

post #2769 of 3640

Yes, it is doable. But your target market would be small, fabrication would best be done by someone who works with granite (or at least subbed out with the cut and drill specs)

 

Based on platter size and offboard motor distance you would calculate the motor pulley diameter and RPM's needed to achieve the desired 33.335 speed. So with a 12 inch platter (30.5cm) and a motor rotational speed of static 300rpm you need a pull that is 3.389 diameter

See here

http://gadi.agric.za/software/renting/pulley_calc.php

 

You then buy the other parts in quantity.

Platter  - http://www.groovetracer.com/acrylic%20_platter_groovetracer.htm

In bulk you probably save 30%

 

Arm

Hmm..The Rega RB303 at $500 would be "okay" but I bet we could do better

 

Assembly is easy.

 

Shipping would be horrible as it would most likely weigh in at 50lbs +

 

Then there has to be a markup to make it worth it.

 

So now you are a $1600 table competing in the Clearaudio, Rega, Prioject, VPI space

 

Go for it !!! I'll give you the specs, you can have the business but I want honorable mention as the name

 

The D'Arco Granite Elite Turntable.....:wink_face:

 

Did this help?

post #2770 of 3640

BTW...this is the arm I would PREFER go on the table

 

post #2771 of 3640
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 

Yes, it is doable. But your target market would be small, fabrication would best be done by someone who works with granite (or at least subbed out with the cut and drill specs)

 

Based on platter size and offboard motor distance you would calculate the motor pulley diameter and RPM's needed to achieve the desired 33.335 speed. So with a 12 inch platter (30.5cm) and a motor rotational speed of static 300rpm you need a pull that is 3.389 diameter

See here

http://gadi.agric.za/software/renting/pulley_calc.php

 

You then buy the other parts in quantity.

Platter  - http://www.groovetracer.com/acrylic%20_platter_groovetracer.htm

In bulk you probably save 30%

 

Arm

Hmm..The Rega RB303 at $500 would be "okay" but I bet we could do better

 

Assembly is easy.

 

Shipping would be horrible as it would most likely weigh in at 50lbs +

 

Then there has to be a markup to make it worth it.

 

So now you are a $1600 table competing in the Clearaudio, Rega, Prioject, VPI space

 

Go for it !!! I'll give you the specs, you can have the business but I want honorable mention as the name

 

The D'Arco Granite Elite Turntable.....:wink_face:

 

Did this help?

I am in the meantime in a "get stones for the mosaic in place" phase. And those "stones" DO DIFFER from more conventional solutions, such as yours proposal.

Absolutely nothing wrong with it and I do appreciate it - but let's put it that way:

 

If you want to build a car that would by default, even on a very bad day, have to leave current top Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Koenigs, ETCs in the dust - at about one tenth of their cost - you simply have to think differently. MUCH differently. 

 

I toy/play ( in scientific jargon - doing R&D ) with partial solutions incorporated into existing designes - LOTS of them. How to mate gerbil with a kangaroo while still maintaining its "sex appeal" ( not to mention doing it way below price that normally would go with such performance ) was never an easy task - and this one is certainly no different. 

 

The TT I have in mind will not exceed mass of about 10 kg + shipping carton/crate - bringing shipping weight at or below 15 kg. Even that shipped say from my country to the USA would run at least 200 $ ...


Edited by analogsurviver - 12/26/13 at 12:15pm
post #2772 of 3640
Quote:
Yes, it is doable. But your target market would be small, fabrication would best be done by someone who works with granite
You can make a turntable like that, but you can not introduce it at a $1000 retail price (without personal financial risk/loss).
For a piece of granite you can just go to any good stonemason, he can cut any shape or form with modern equipment. They can make the most intricate headstones and ornaments so a tiny slab with a few holes will be no challenge. Just hand him a dwg and a slab of 2 ftsq won't cost you $200. I asked for a similar base for my extra arm and that was <$75.

But what you are forgetting: if you want to sell something commercially you need to hold a considerable margin (like 100%) for extra costs like shipping, storing, guarantee (stone can break and chip), office and personnel costs, assembly costs, PR, advertising, taxes, fees what have you. In short, if you would want to sell a TT for $1000 you should be able to manufacture it for half that, $500. So if you could make it DIY for $1000 and sell it for $1000 you would do all that work for just making someone else happy, not for earning your own bread. So even trowing on a $300 arm would make the whole project rather taxing... If you want to go commercial you need a business plan. Especially if you want to wrap on the door of a bank (which I advise against, but still).
I am listening to my newly modded Yaqin MS22b phonoamp now. I am quite pleased with it. It sounds very fluid and musical, slightly warm. My Jolida JD9 sounds tighter and more neutral, cd like (it has 3 opamps in a row). I am not sure about the deepest bass though. Bass is there allright. I am playing Dead Can Dance - Anastasis now and boy, is there bass! Enough to waken the dead (pun intended, anastasis wink.gif). I don't know yet if this soundcharacter is maybe a little too much of a good thing in combination with the Koetsu Urushi and the Classic 16.2 300B amplifier which are both very full bodied. But with the bleak Decca this should be a bonus.
I did notice a slight hum when playing music, but it's definitely not the Yaqin. It's dead quiet. Really happy with that. biggrin.gif

Now the Jolida JD9 s back on the operating table. Still not done with that little bugger. I need to pull hard on the reigns of that fullblood. Playing from the DAC I have the volume at 10 (full open), with the Yaqin (only 1 ECC83 per side) at 4-5 and with the JD9 only 3! It is quite loud. And it uses 3 opamps in a row, 2 10K resistors in between somewhere (why amplify and then attenuate?) and, again, 2 ECC83 as a buffer. I mean, come on. Ok, I don't need the extra amplification for MC since I use a tranny but I still see it as overkill. I am going to see if I can take out one or maybe two opamps. Leaving just one opamp and the riaa feedback-loop. I wish I would understand the schematic better. I need some help with that. I see a feedbackloop at every opamp, so maybe I'm mistaken about taking one opamp out. But I see the the dipswitch for MM/MC in the same feedback loop (after which opamp there are 2 10k R in parallel). I think I can skip that opamp incl the 5k, plus one whopping 4.7uF couplingcap. That should improve sound considerably. Leaving out things you don't need is always a good thing.
Edit: well, i've been studying up on opamps and that little feedbackloop is required for the opamp, so I think I can leave one out. I hope I don't ruin anything. Just for safety I'll put the original opamps in.
Edited by ]eep - 12/30/13 at 5:03pm
post #2773 of 3640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

 

Direct drive, when done right, has so much going for it that I find anything else a compromise at best. But it can not be made for a grand - not in 201X .

 

 

I loved my 1200s direct drive operating style.

 

 I missed Denons return to direct for $2500 back in 2010. Amazing to bring a design directly into the future from the 1970s!

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 72

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Anniversary-Edition-DP-A100-Turntable/dp/B0042S5UHY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

These are on Ebay now!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Denon-DP-500M-Direct-Drive-Turntable-Analogue-Record-Player-FREE-SHIPPING-/331092534278?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item4d16a72406


Edited by Redcarmoose - 1/2/14 at 8:34am
post #2774 of 3640
There is a lot that can be said about nostalgia as well in the clinical as in the general sense of the word. In this it is also linked to melancholy. It can refer to a general interest in the past, their personalities, and events, especially the "good old days" from one's earlier life. ... nostalgia is more prevalent during times of great upheaval. But can also be deceptive: ... nostalgia ... in some forms can become a defense mechanism by which people avoid the historical facts. Personally I prefer to make new good memories in the here and now instead of dwelling on old ones.

I appreciate the look of that black Denon. But I think that the company that just killed the production of the great little DL110+160 is merely hoping to cash in on the feeling of nostalgia than making a bold new step forward with new and exiting technology. I wouldn't be surprised if it was made in China. Dust off an old design and put some nice varnish on and you are good to go. In saying this I strongly feel that there is a strong underapreciation of Chinese engineering and craftsmanship, just like Japanese in the '60s-'70s.

Just to think you could get a really good turntable for that money. But without a new DL160 cartridge...

I am just listening to my newly modded phonoamp. I was a bit anxious because I took out 33% of the opamps an redid the scheme (RIAA) and replaced the caps in between. Since I have no formal schooling in electronics i wasn't really shure if what I did would be ok. I did introduce some hum but that is because I forgot that there is a seperationwall on the lid of the inner shielding. And the new bigger caps are in the way. So I can't close it. Hence some hum. But it sounds incredibly clear. Like, again, several veils are lifted. Without even breaking all the new Spragues and Russian caps. It's really like WOW! basshead.gif
Edited by ]eep - 1/3/14 at 7:01pm
post #2775 of 3640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ]eep View Post

There is a lot that can be said about nostalgia as well in the clinical as in the general sense of the word. In this it is also linked to melancholy. It can refer to a general interest in the past, their personalities, and events, especially the "good old days" from one's earlier life. ... nostalgia is more prevalent during times of great upheaval. But can also be deceptive: ... nostalgia ... in some forms can become a defense mechanism by which people avoid the historical facts. Personally I prefer to make new good memories in the here and now instead of dwelling on old ones.

I appreciate the look of that black Denon. But I think that the company that just killed the production of the great little DL110+160 is merely hoping to cash in on the feeling of nostalgia than making a bold new step forward with new and exiting technology. I wouldn't be surprised if it was made in China. Dust off an old design and put some nice varnish on and you are good to go. In saying this I strongly feel that there is a strong underapreciation of Chinese engineering and craftsmanship, just like Japanese in the '60s-'70s.

Just to think you could get a really good turntable for that money. But without a new DL160 cartridge...

I am just listening to my newly modded phonoamp. I was a bit anxious because I took out 33% of the opamps an redid the scheme (RIAA) and replaced the caps in between. Since I have no formal schooling in electronics i wasn't really shure if what I did would be ok. I did introduce some hum but that is because I forgot that there is a seperationwall on the lid of the inner shielding. And the new bigger caps are in the way. So I can't close it. Hence some hum. But it sounds incredibly clear. Like, again, several veils are lifted. Without even breaking all the new Spragues and Russian caps. It's really like WOW! basshead.gif

Yes, they are made in China.
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