Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable - Page 134

post #1996 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Long before I would buy a new TT, I would upgrade that Shure cartridge. Your Technics will certainly scale up significantly with a better pickup.

And consider some of the numerous mods to get more out of your 1200.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1997 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Five View Post

 

I ran 1200's for many, many years using the same cartridges for home listening as I did for playing out, American DJ Banana's (rebranded Ortofon Concorde I believe).  The Banana's are great carts for mixing, but I had no idea how good these decks could sound with a better cart.  I went "up" the ladder with Denon DL-110 -> Denon DL-160 -> Benz Micro Silver -> Audio Technica AT150MLX.

 

I must say each of these carts sound very good on a 1200.  The 110 is a great daily spinner, lots of low end and pretty smooth for it's price point.  The 160 improves on everything the 110 does, a bit leaner but punchier low end and a quite extended high end, still very smooth.  The Benz became my daily for about a year or so, nice tonal balance overall and decent clarity.  It is a great cart, but not as "fun" as the Denons IMO.  Still was good enough to stay in service until I picked up the 150MLX.  Currently, the AT is my favorite on these decks.  It has a deep, full and punchy low end you might expect with a higher end MM, but it still has excellent resolution and delicacy to the highs that betray its MM construction.  I would probably run the DL-160 more if I knew I could replace it at some point, but it's no longer in production so I keep the hours low.

 

I've also heard the AT440 on a 1200 that sounded great, I imagine similar to the AT150 but memory fails in a comparison.  IMO one of the best value carts is the DL-110 if you can't spring for the AT150MLX.

 

I'd love to hear others' favorites as well.  The whole universal head-shell thing makes having multiple carts pretty fun and easy to live with.  That said, none of the combos sound quite as good as my VPI Classic / Dyna 20X2 setup, but a 1200 can get probably 90% there with some light modding IMO.  I've not tried the DV20X2 on any of my 12's, but that would be an interesting experiment...the cart costs more than the decks did!

 

Hope that helps,

Hi-Five

That definitely does help. biggrin.gif

 

I feel honored that palmfish and Skylab responded to my post. Thanks for the input! I do think I'll upgrade my cartridge now.

post #1998 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackskelly View Post

That definitely does help. biggrin.gif


I feel honored that palmfish and Skylab responded to my post. Thanks for the input! I do think I'll upgrade my cartridge now.

When it comes to vinyl, I'm strickly minor league compared to Skylab...lol!

And FWIW, I have an M97xe on my Pioneer turntable and am very happy with it. It isn't the end all, be all in detail and soundstage depth, but I've compared it with some very high end (5-figure) rigs and I'm 85-90% of the way there. I have no plans to upgrade.
Edited by palmfish - 7/18/13 at 2:17pm
post #1999 of 3033

I use a Dynavector 20x2 on my Denon DP-59L, which was a TOTL Japanese DD deck from the 1980's.  It sounds glorious, and would be a real candidate for the 1200, I would agree.  Sure, my VPI ScoutMaster + Benz LP-Smr sounds better...but not as much better as many might think, which is a testament to just how good the serious DD decks from the heyday of vinyl playback can be with a top, well chosen modern cartridge.

post #2000 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackskelly View Post

There are a lot of great turntables in this thread. I currently own a Technics 1200 MK2, and while I don't really want to sell it now, I would like to upgrade to a better turntable. What recommendations does anyone have for a turntable in the $3-5K range that would be significantly better than the 1200? Maybe I should upgrade my cartridge first before I try a new turntable. Right now I have a Shure M97xE, which I know is quite common.

1210 is a classical case of a Good Bad Turntable. It is basically extremely sound design, but is not well executed. M97xe can easily be improved upon, but there is a limit how high it makes sense to go with cartridge on stock 1210. Better cart will expose its flaws even more.

 

I do not want to go in more detail, suffice is to look what Inspire HI FI does to 1210 and you will get the general idea. Absolutely nothing wrong with 1210 principle - getting it realized will burn a hole in the pocket. Still smaller than almost anything comparable in sonics.

 

How does it sound if you overcooked it with cart relative to TT? It will be a bit/more than a bit/quite some more bright, if you use 3 carts of increasing resolution. The better the cart, the more etched and nervous a sub par TT will sound. Classic case are AT MMs, which are generally thought of as being bright. True - on stock 1210 it can be painful. On a well modded one, using the same cart, you get LESS sound, but what remains is far more true; and no, AT MM on really good TT does not sound thin in the bass, which is second most common complaint on AT MMs. The difference between stock and well modded 1210 is similar to the difference in sound of really good HIFI and music live, only lessened in magnitude - but not much.. 

 

For your proposed budget, you might want Inspire HI FI take on 1210, the Monarch. Staying with DD, Brinkmann Bardo is a breeze of fresh air in DD TTs and TTs in general - that still is kind of within budget. Arm might well push the price above budget, though.

 

Or you might want to go more radical - a new idler drive design, for about that money you can squeeze in a decent cart, and you get one of the over decades updated and improved/refined linear tracking arms that inched its entry into truly high class performers  http://www.trans-fi.com/salvation.htm

No affiliation with the designer/seller, did no hear it yet, but degree of real machining that went into it along with years of experience would cost much more dearly if offered under more traditional approach.

 

There is more than one road leading to Rome. 

post #2001 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

1210 is a classical case of a Good Bad Turntable. It is basically extremely sound design, but is not well executed.

 

I'd like to hear a justification of this statement in your own words rather than borrowing them from an internet source.


Edited by Greyson - 7/18/13 at 6:14pm
post #2002 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

[edit]......How does it sound if you overcooked it with cart relative to TT? It will be a bit/more than a bit/quite some more bright, if you use 3 carts of increasing resolution. The better the cart, the more etched and nervous a sub par TT will sound. ...[edit]

 

I always enjoy your posts analogsurviver as they are so informative for those of us who may have limited experience or history with vinyl.  I'm quite interested in this estimation of scaling up the Technics with better carts.  I had always thought that the 1200's were generally considered "dark" because of their massive rubber damping scheme of the plinth/body.

 

In your opinion, do you think the AT150MLX is a good mate for a relatively stock 1200/1210?  I thought the cart was a good match for the stock arm and sounds pretty good to my aging ears.  The Benz Silver was the only cart (in my limited selection) that might have been a little too "bright" but just barely.  I should have also said that I have a rewired arm and the KAB fluid damper on my main bedroom 1200, maybe that eats up some of the brightness.

 

Best,

Hi-Five

post #2003 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson View Post

 

I'd like to hear a justification of this statement in your own words rather than borrowing them from an internet source.

IMO, analogsurvivor spends enough of his time giving us valuable information. It's ok for us to look up the rather well known 1200 improvement/modifications he references and not have him spell them all out...

Trust me he is not borrowing from an internet source but identifying a good resource where one can go learn about how to improve a 1200.

Just read (and appreciate) his posts!

Just my $0.02...

post #2004 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

IMO, analogsurvivor spends enough of his time giving us valuable information. It's ok for us to look up the rather well known 1200 improvement/modifications he references and not have him spell them all out...

Trust me he is not borrowing from an internet source but identifying a good resource where one can go learn about how to improve a 1200.

Just read (and appreciate) his posts!

Just my $0.02...

 

I'm sure that's fine if you already agree with what he's posting. I wholeheartedly disagree with the comment that the SL-1200 is "not a well executed design", and if someone is going to lay down a blanket statement as fact I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an explination from that stance, espically when people are taking the word of that particular poster at face value.

 

I would genuinely like to hear, from his perspective and assumingly based on personal experience, what these design flaws are.


Edited by Greyson - 7/18/13 at 10:15pm
post #2005 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackskelly View Post

There are a lot of great turntables in this thread. I currently own a Technics 1200 MK2, and while I don't really want to sell it now, I would like to upgrade to a better turntable. What recommendations does anyone have for a turntable in the $3-5K range that would be significantly better than the 1200? Maybe I should upgrade my cartridge first before I try a new turntable. Right now I have a Shure M97xE, which I know is quite common.

WTL Amadeus or Kuzma Stabi/Stogi get my votes. At 5 you could squeeze out a Versalex from WTL, too. Careful with the WTL tables though. Sound is excellent, but their quirks can grate on you.

I'm also a Nottingham fan but they're hard to order as of late.
post #2006 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson View Post

 

I'd like to hear a justification of this statement in your own words rather than borrowing them from an internet source.

In other words, 1210 is what I call a classic case of "semi product" - one that is fundamentally right and should perform but is let down by the execution.

I was also not borrowing from an internet source, merely linking something along the lines what I would do if ever decided to work with 1210 - without having to go into great blah blah about details. Bits and pieces are scattered in my posts already.

 

No time right now ( have to finish/adjust  a prototype microphone in few hours ) to go further, but basically, turntables fail because of one very simple reason. The designers, not to mention users, do not pay attention or fail to realize at all what basically a turntable, or to be specific, a combination of turntable/arm/cartridge=record player IS.

 

In ONE word.

post #2007 of 3033

Well when you do have time i'd love for you to elaborate. Have you owned an SL-1200 yourself? Your post was a bit vague. It's possible that my post wasen't clear, either, so i'll rephrase my initial question. I'd like to hear specifically what elements are "let down" in the execution of the 1200's design and how that affects its performance in playing records and reproducing the information on them. You seem quite familiar with the designers behind the conception of the SL-1200, since according to you they wern't paying attention to the important stuff. So it'd be great to hear more about that.

 

Good luck with your microphone. As a musician I do some basic home recording so i'd be interested to hear about that too.


Edited by Greyson - 7/19/13 at 12:38am
post #2008 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

1210 is a classical case of a Good Bad Turntable. It is basically extremely sound design, but is not well executed. M97xe can easily be improved upon, but there is a limit how high it makes sense to go with cartridge on stock 1210. Better cart will expose its flaws even more.

 

I do not want to go in more detail, suffice is to look what Inspire HI FI does to 1210 and you will get the general idea. Absolutely nothing wrong with 1210 principle - getting it realized will burn a hole in the pocket. Still smaller than almost anything comparable in sonics.

 

How does it sound if you overcooked it with cart relative to TT? It will be a bit/more than a bit/quite some more bright, if you use 3 carts of increasing resolution. The better the cart, the more etched and nervous a sub par TT will sound. Classic case are AT MMs, which are generally thought of as being bright. True - on stock 1210 it can be painful. On a well modded one, using the same cart, you get LESS sound, but what remains is far more true; and no, AT MM on really good TT does not sound thin in the bass, which is second most common complaint on AT MMs. The difference between stock and well modded 1210 is similar to the difference in sound of really good HIFI and music live, only lessened in magnitude - but not much.. 

 

For your proposed budget, you might want Inspire HI FI take on 1210, the Monarch. Staying with DD, Brinkmann Bardo is a breeze of fresh air in DD TTs and TTs in general - that still is kind of within budget. Arm might well push the price above budget, though.

 

Or you might want to go more radical - a new idler drive design, for about that money you can squeeze in a decent cart, and you get one of the over decades updated and improved/refined linear tracking arms that inched its entry into truly high class performers  http://www.trans-fi.com/salvation.htm

No affiliation with the designer/seller, did no hear it yet, but degree of real machining that went into it along with years of experience would cost much more dearly if offered under more traditional approach.

 

There is more than one road leading to Rome. 


Some very cool turntables there!  The Salvation and Brinkmann might be way out of my league but the Inspire Hi-Fi's are pretty cool and the lower models are actually pretty reasonable.   Thanks for sharing, I would have probably not come across them otherwise.

post #2009 of 3033
Honestly, an in depth discussion of the design merits of the SL-1200 does NOT belong in a picture thread wink.gif

To get us back on track a bit: a recent pic of my VPI, with dust cover -

post #2010 of 3033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Honestly, an in depth discussion of the design merits of the SL-1200 does NOT belong in a picture thread wink.gif

To get us back on track a bit: a recent pic of my VPI, with dust cover -

Agreed.

 

Then again - please read http://www.head-fi.org/t/45691/turntables - my first ever turntable post on head-fi. 

 

Not a SINGLE reply.

 

You can have acres of gold, chrome, brass, etc etc polished to glaring bling, by visiting say "the most expensive TTs" or similar sites. Or one can take out his or hers Hasselblad and matching supporting equipment and photo his/hers TT to appear on the photo as non plus ultra.

 

Neither offers absolutely no guarantee as regards actual sound quality. And some of the best sounding tables are unfortunately best described by the lyrics of Leonard Cohen - "we are ugly but we have the music". Pretty face, be it TT or otherwise, has a head start - most of us would dismiss anything that does not "measure up" to at least average accepted current standard of beauty. Even when it proves later on that certain TT's beauty is more than just skin deep.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable