Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable - Page 81

post #1201 of 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by p a t r i c k View Post

 

I entirely agree with you about the SME 3009 Series III. When people are putting together turntables I have suggested this arm along with an OM40 as being ideal.

 

I remember well when the SME 3009 Series III arrived on the market. It seemed extremely exotic and I remember thinking, surely nobody would pay the price for that arm. However after a year I bought one myself :)

 

The 3009 Series III fulfilled the ideal at the time of low mass, adjustability and low resonance (as you have described). However the wind changed very rapidly, and high compliance moving magnet cartridges were out and low compliance moving coils were in.

 

As you mention the 3009 III is not good with low compliance cartridges at all. It can be adjusted to accommodate, but a much more rigid arm is required for these.

 

I will add a few things to your comments.

 

Using the 3009 III with the Ortofon greatly reduces the influence of the mat on the sound. With a high compliance cartridge the signal waves in the sides of the grooves in the record can move it around with much less force required and so there is consequently reduced energy coming back into the record.

 

It is the use of moving coil low compliance cartridges which, I think, has led to the changes in turntable design since the days of the Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference.

 

Transcriptors themselves were, of course great advocates of moving magnet high compliance cartridges and David Gammon warned against the use of moving coil cartridges with his designs.

 

David Gammon went on to design several turntables after the Hydraulic Reference.

 

The best design for use today, I believe, is the Transcriptor Skeleton. Used with the 3009 Series III and the Ortofon this is really a superb turntable.

 

Transcriptors sold an arm for use with the Skeleton called the "Vestigal Arm" which had the bearings for vertical axis movement behind the headshell. This was only to be used with the very highest compliance cartridges and you would set it to extremely low tracking weights, such as 0.1 grammes or less.

 

The other significant turntable was the Transcriptor Transcriber which was also built around the use of high compliance MM cartridges. This turntable was a parallel tracker in which the platter moved and the "arm" stayed still, attached to the lid of the turntable.

 

The Transcriber was the last turntable built by Transcriptors, personally I think that they were finished off by the change in fashion away from high compliance cartridges towards moving coils. Moving coil cartridges were very much the "go to" thing, and you could not use them with Transcriptor turntables.

Could not agree with you more. But now there is much more to the continuing saga about David Gammon designed turntables.

 

I have long term experience with any Transcriptors of David Gammon design, save Saturn ( not so important ) and Transcriber ( VERY important, but unfortunately impractical to use in the same room with speakers if its superb SQ is to be maintained  - no reservations for use with headphones). I curse the day I decided to get rid of the rarest of them all, the Round Table. The world's ONLY actually round turntable, initially meant as an entry level Transcriptors, but due to its now ultra extreme rare status ( due to limited run of 300 or so pcs ) stratospherically priced, if and when it does appear for sale. 

 

I am a long time (ab)user of the Vestigal pick up arm - since 1977 ( what a relief after SME 3009 Series 2 ! ) After a hiatus for about 10 years ( you have guessed it, due to MCs ...), I currently I own 1 1/2 samples ! One probably most modded Vestigal in existance graces my working turntable, along 3 other arms mounted to it. Sorry, no pics, it is work in progress and I doubt any pics will ever be released of this one - only the results of these developments when they see the light of day as commercially available products. The other 1/2 of Vestigal came rather recently from Canada - the moving part only, that is to say everything that is not a part of the base that gets fastened to the turntable. Will be used to make yet better sounding platform for MCs, as original base can not take mechanical output of low compliance carts,

 

Vestigal CAN be made to sing with MCs - quite well actually. NOT unmodified. Of MC carts that are still available and are high(ish) compliance, in ascending order of price and performance : Denon DL304, Denon DLS1, Van den Hul Colibri XGP high compliance version. Wish I could somehow lure 

a single Colibri into my system - it is simply too much $$$ !

 

Vestigal was the star of http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/TT_Design/MechanicalResonances.pdf It outperformed any other arm in this seminal survey to the scary degree. This design has so much going for it that its numerous idyiosincrasies and not exactly stellar build quality simply have to be taken into account. I believe that its true time has not yet even begun - so ahead of its time and far reaching was its design, that very  few could really understand the " curious spelling " of its designer in the original brochure ( which is safely in my archive ). At the time - or up to now. Due to the vertical bearing/geometry, it REQUIRES PERFECTLY FLAT RECORDS. Period. Not because it could not track a warped record - it is perhaps THE best pivoted arm for warped records, but due to the change in vertical tracking angle, to a lesser degree azimuth, and, above all, Doppler distortion due to vertical bearing geometry, which results in wow/changing pitch whenever transversing the warp. It is horrible with super stylus tips available today, such as Van den Hul or Micro Line , both of which ill tolerate any geometrical discrepancy from the ideal. The only real way to do it with Vestigal is with the use of a turntable with vacuum disc stabilizer - or the use of the Audio Technica AT666EX Vacuum Disc Stabilizer on modified Skeleton. The use of the record ring weight(s) that flatten the LP against the platter without the requirement for vacuum is most probably impossible because of the fact that Vestigal is also horizontally shorter than 9" and its unusual arrangement(s) migh well interfere with such ring(s) - besides, bearing in mind the arm's fragility, the prospect of having to manipulate the heavy ring in the close proximity of by now so rare arm with every change of a side of an LP is simply too daunting a prospect.

 

Reading - and re-reading the above B&K paper - particularly beetween the lines - will reveal the true greatness of the Vestigal design.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1202 of 3415

I think we need a new 'Longwindus Supremus' label. :D

post #1203 of 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

I think we need a new 'Longwindus Supremus' label. :D

 

It is all great stuff Mr. Toaster :)

 

Edited by p a t r i c k - 1/8/13 at 4:07pm
post #1204 of 3415

*

 

Thorens TT will upload pics of the rest of my tt later


Edited by Spriggs - 1/8/13 at 4:13pm
post #1205 of 3415

Always great to see a TD-124 in active service! beerchug.gif

post #1206 of 3415
Here's my wonderful Dual 1229L5qF8.jpg

It's rocking a Shure V15 Type III cartridge outfitted with a JICO SAS stylus. This turntable comes with a pretty cool scroe story, don't know if you folks would like to hear it though.
post #1207 of 3415

Sweet!

post #1208 of 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCameraman View Post

Here's my wonderful Dual 1229

It's rocking a Shure V15 Type III cartridge outfitted with a JICO SAS stylus. This turntable comes with a pretty cool scroe story, don't know if you folks would like to hear it though.

 

Yes...yes, I would. And I'll bring my own tea. wink.gif

post #1209 of 3415

I have a Dual 1209 with the same problem.  It's a low-level fast heartbeat sound.  No idea where it is coming from.  This TT is my 4th player, so I don't pay much attention to it.  It's not a very good turntable, the tracking is very marginal

 

The loud static sound when the system is idle could be a temporary oxide buildup on one of the connections due to bad solder joint, where the problem goes away when the system plays, the electrical current burning off the oxide.  You can fix this by gently reflowing the solder connections by heating them to where they are soft.  Consult with someone with welding experience. 

 

Live long and prosper
 

post #1210 of 3415
This just in...



Ortofon 2M Blue. Goodbye horrendous inner-groove distortion! biggrin.gif



Edit: No problems with pitch stability or the speed running fast. With this particular example, the two Rega myths have been debunked. It also seems to do a much better job of handling footfalls than my suspended-chassis TD-145 did... confused.gif
Edited by calipilot227 - 1/13/13 at 10:07pm
post #1211 of 3415

calipilot227, your pix make me wanna just drop work; leave work and speed toward the listening room. 

beerchug.gif

post #1212 of 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipilot227 View Post

This just in...



Ortofon 2M Blue. Goodbye horrendous inner-groove distortion! biggrin.gif



Edit: No problems with pitch stability or the speed running fast. With this particular example, the two Rega myths have been debunked. It also seems to do a much better job of handling footfalls than my suspended-chassis TD-145 did... confused.gif

 

Love it! 

 

After many years away from a vinyl setup, I just bought an RP3. It has no tonearm at the moment, 

But I'll be fitting a RB300 with 2M &/or Grado cart.

It'll be finished off with some Copper Widow RCA's from Frank.

 

Can't wait to get it up and running!!

post #1213 of 3415

*

 

Poting my setup because I'm so proud of it

post #1214 of 3415

Sweet table and damping setup you got there, Paul. Can i ask you where do you get it? (the damping)

post #1215 of 3415

Thats Calipilot's Not mine dude :)

I havent even got my tonearm for my P3 yet lol...

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Post A Photograph Of Your Turntable