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post #1066 of 3690

Another Technics SL owner.  I have a pristine SL-5 that was my aunt's.  She bought it new in the early 80's I believe and said she had only played a few dozen albums on it before it was stowed away.  She gave it to me a couple of years ago and I've been enjoying it ever since.  It's got a Audio Technica AT112EP on it, but I'm sure could use something better.

 

post #1067 of 3690

Hey, Blooze!  It's been awhile.  Glad to see you still posting!

 

Also glad to see you're a fellow Technics linear-tracking SL owner. wink.gif

post #1068 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooze View Post

Another Technics SL owner.  I have a pristine SL-5 that was my aunt's.  She bought it new in the early 80's I believe and said she had only played a few dozen albums on it before it was stowed away.  She gave it to me a couple of years ago and I've been enjoying it ever since.  It's got a Audio Technica AT112EP on it, but I'm sure could use something better.

 

Q: What is the difference between Vivaldi and Audio Technica ?

A: None whatsover. Vivaldi wrote 4 concertos in 300 versions, AT built 4 cartridge designs in

    X x 300 versions. ( exact numbers can be a topic for debate, but you get the drift )

 

Appreciate, cherish & enjoy  - both !

 

Seriously, what I meant was the following : the P mount cart you have I call AT Vivaldi - it will take any stylus that looks like this 

 

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=atn440mla

 

The current regular TOTL stylus for your cart is ATN150MLX - but if you really insist on nothing but the best, there is 

 

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/audio-technica/at150.shtml

 

at about twice the cost of ATN150MLX - and rather difficult to procure separately without the entire cartridge package even in Japan.

 

Did not pull the trigger on ATN150ANV sapphire tube cantilevered stylus myself - yet; ATN150MLX is superb with AT Vivaldis on Technics SLs, as it is a tad bulkier/heavier than styli for P-mounts, you will have to adjust the vertical tracking force on those tables that allow for it - the easiest way to do it (almost ) right is by removing the flip down stylus guard; but take care not to remove stylus as well while at it!

 

There are really good Shibata styli for "Vivaldi" by JICO - at very reasonable prices. It does not have to cost an arm and a leg to get a "sting" for your SL that will put a guaranteed smile on your face. And Shibata is less sensitive regarding VTA - if you do not know how/what you are doing with VTA on Technics SLs, MUCH safer recommendations than Micro Line polished styli of 440MLa and upwards - which WILL backfire if not aligned properly.

 

Happy and, above all, GENTLE vynil "grinding" possible with SL arm -  to all of its users !


Edited by analogsurviver - 12/25/12 at 3:30am
post #1069 of 3690
I know the SL-5 because my brother still owns it. He bought it new 30Y ago. He still thinks it's a fabulous player...rolleyes.gif
WHen I bought my first TT, a Dual 505-II it slapped it all around the room. Tangential tracing is a good concept only almost impossible to do it right. Or very expensive. I really don't get it why people are so fond of Technics TT's other than for nostalgic reasons.

Just a moment ago I was listening to The Planets by Solti (VINYL2496: Gustav Holst - The Planets - 1979). When the choir came on it just sounded horrible. Really horrible distortion. I couldn't trace the setup so I looked it up in google how it was done. I give you 1 guess... (yes, the SL1200). eek.gif
post #1070 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by ]eep View Post

I know the SL-5 because my brother still owns it. He bought it new 30Y ago. He still thinks it's a fabulous player...rolleyes.gif
WHen I bought my first TT, a Dual 505-II it slapped it all around the room. Tangential tracing is a good concept only almost impossible to do it right. Or very expensive. I really don't get it why people are so fond of Technics TT's other than for nostalgic reasons.
Just a moment ago I was listening to The Planets by Solti (VINYL2496: Gustav Holst - The Planets - 1979). When the choir came on it just sounded horrible. Really horrible distortion. I couldn't trace the setup so I looked it up in google how it was done. I give you 1 guess... (yes, the SL1200). eek.gif

OK - the whole story. Technics SL series is a potential world beater - actual product sold to the public can be very so-so. SL-5 is not among the players within the range/line with great SQ to begin with.

 

My first encounter with SL series came in about early 90s - since I am very good with anything vynil ( worked briefly at Benz Micro Switzerland, following quite a long line of prototypes and pre production units I evaluated  back then), an acquaintance called me if I can "fix" a strange table with strange symptoms. Sure enough, it was one of SLs. This is about the most hermetically unpenetrable design as they go regarding ANY adjustments to the tonearm/cartridge : no precise lateral geometry correction, no VTA adjustment, no azimuth adjustment, later/latest models even no vertical tracking force adjustment , no "official" possibility to check for vertical tracking force with a gauge, etc, etc - therfore ZILCH one could do about it. But it did give me creeps - attached to that strange looking arm was a Technics cart that belied each, every and all beliefs regarding my then opinion on Technics - the cantilever and stylus on that "thing" certainly did look the part, easily equaling or besting ANYTHING seen to that time. Scratch the head as I possibly could , I could not decipher how to do - anything. I am frank by nature and admitted to the owner of the deck I have not got the faintest about it and told him I am afraid to monkey around so precious cartridge/stylus without any user manual etc. For the first time in my life, I had to admit defeat - by some TECHNICS table, of all of them !

 

The cartridge on that fateful table was later identified as EPC P205CMK3, one of the very best MM cartridges in history, performance of which is exceeded only by a very small number of carts, be it MM or MC - mostly from the Technics itself: EPC P205CMK4 and EPC P100CMK4, which I consider to be the best ever - unfortunately never heard one, but did hear those that the fabled 100/4 should improve upon.

 

That Planets ( one of my fav demo pieces for TTs ) plays on well adjusted 1200 just fine - but wait till you hear it on well adjusted SL !!! I did my homework since that horrible day I had to admit the defeat - this thing operates on entirely different mind set than practically anything else and unless you start thinking similarly, effectively repeating the thinking of its designer, and continue with "turntable bussiness as usual", you will not get anywhere but to results you described. You simply need not to be appaled at lack of adjustments for - ahem...everything and not capitulate from the deck's automatisms that prevent - ahem, everything again. It is made and conceived as "fire & forget" - and that would work in a perfect world, where each and every cartridge is made with zero tolerance, etc, etc. Real world tolerances are what they are and Technics could be accused to show more variations sample to sample than some other manufacturers - some 20 or so ( from low to P205CMK3 quality) Technics P Mount carts in residence are statystically enough to lay down such a claim. No wonder very few actual combinations table/cartridge/stylus performed as they should - giving the design bad reputation in the process. QC on the actual tablers also left much to be desired - free play in tonearm bearings, poorly adjusted servo for tonearm movement etc, etc were unfortunately more rule than exception.

 

In a word, you must not fight it, trying to prove it has many flaws ( it does, all but the very last one in the series, at which any "serious" audiophille would scoff at, as it is taken together about 3,5 kg of plastics, power cord included - yet, it is the most technically advanced TT Technics ever produced and can be made to sound absolutely fabuolous - but it "looks" so that "serious" audiophile would never admit ever to come within a mile of that table ! ), but you must try to help it as best as you can. Then, it will return your effort - many times over.

 

After that , you will begin your hunt for GOOD P Mount cartridges ...a properly set up SL will hold its own against most, given a good vibration free support. A properly modified one on equally good or better support with good cartridge will give ANY other table, regardless of cost, a bloody nose.

post #1071 of 3690

Holst Planets - Deustche Grammaphon Steinberg-Boston Symphony?  One of my absolute, all-time favorites.  I have the Telarc 1812 Overture, too - definitely a great test record.

post #1072 of 3690

Well, my SL-5 might be at the bottom of the SL rung, but it was free, plays albums reasonably well, and....it was free.  My hearing's bad enough it's not a big deal anyway.  When I'm ready to step up I'll likely upgrade to a Rega P3 or a SOTA Moonbeam.  I don't see that happening anytime soon though.  Too many other projects that are higher up on the list.  Heck, I've had a Millett Max PCB for years now that's still sitting unpopulated (and one of the original MIllett boards from over at Headwize with a Steinchen buffer not populated either), and the R1, and a Meier Xfeed PCB that I've had for nearly 6-7 years. tongue.gif
 


Edited by Blooze - 12/25/12 at 11:36am
post #1073 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

Holst Planets - Deustche Grammaphon Steinberg-Boston Symphony?  One of my absolute, all-time favorites.  I have the Telarc 1812 Overture, too - definitely a great test record.

Unfortunately not familiar with this one. I particularly like Karajan on Decca, especially Saturn - The Bringer od Old Age;- it somehow achieves the scariest of emotions, namely getting conscious you are getting older by the second, getting ever nearer to the inescapable, that you will be older/different by the time this movement of The Planets ends and that you are powerless to do anything about it. God - it occured to me while still in my teens ! This version of The Planets trandescens a mere test disc for me, it is something I approach with great respect and do not take lightly. Not exactly a great admirer of Karajan otherwise, but if he never did anything but this Saturn, would still rank highly in my book.

 

Classic Planets is also Previn on EMI/Angel, which I have in Angel 45 series at 45 RPM. Quite warped, my sample, unfortunately. Despite being analogsurviver not only in name but in heart and soul, I would have to admit that SACD of Naxos ( do not own it, heard quite a while ago, forgot who the musicians are ) beats LPs for sheer sonics - you can not pack the wallop in bass needed to reproduce really full frequency range with full dynamics on LP without creating another "1812" - of which at least 2 ( or was it 3 ? ) versions exist - the first original one was deemed too much, as only a handfull of carts and arms was capable of sort of staying in the groove - with everything else simply jumping out of the groove ! You can google for Stan Ricker's interview(s) for more details regarding analog LP versions of the 1812. Any good Audio Technica MM, better Shure or Grado fitted to properly adjusted Dynavector arm(s) should be among creme de la creme for 1812 off LP. MCs for 1812 ? Never heard these, but Denon 1000, possibly Denon 103 ?version, Denon 304,  Ortofon MC2000 or light tracking Highphonic carts should be capable of doing it, as were original Dynavector Karat DV100 R and D. All of these carts, with the exception of still sporadically available DL 304, are now to be found only in the homes of the most "obsessed and deranged" - oops, greatest analog connoisseurs.

 

Equally, during Neptune - The mystic, vynil rumble and noise and ticks and pops will mar the extremely quiet music on all but the best record players - but if and when you climb up the analog ladder high enough, it will give you things in this piece only SACD can approach. It is in quiet passages that really good analog shows what is it all about - unfortunately, here money not only talks, but screams. I think everyone interested in music enough to be reading these lines should be at least once in his/her lifetime able to experience analog at its best - just to know what is possible with this "antiquated technology"; it is decision of each individual whether to go this path or settle for less or wait for something really capable of replacing vynil.

post #1074 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooze View Post

Well, my SL-5 might be at the bottom of the SL rung, but it was free, plays albums reasonably well, and....it was free.  My hearing's bad enough it's not a big deal anyway.  When I'm ready to step up I'll likely upgrade to a Rega P3 or a SOTA Moonbeam.  I don't see that happening anytime soon though.  Too many other projects that are higher up on the list.  Heck, I've had a Millett Max PCB for years now that's still sitting unpopulated (and one of the original MIllett boards from over at Headwize with a Steinchen buffer not populated either), and the R1, and a Meier Xfeed PCB that I've had for nearly 6-7 years. tongue.gif
 

It is STILL a SL - if nothing else, quite incapable of ruining the records if it works properly and its stylus is not worn. With pivoted arms, if you do not set the antiskating right enough, it is very easy to demage the records - near impossibility with SL.

 

Meier Xfeed PCB sitting unpopulated for 7 years ? I can tell you, it IS great amp, bought it this summer and do not regret one iota I did. Best bang for the buck anywhere.

post #1075 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

It is STILL a SL - if nothing else, quite incapable of ruining the records if it works properly and its stylus is not worn. With pivoted arms, if you do not set the antiskating right enough, it is very easy to demage the records - near impossibility with SL.

 

Meier Xfeed PCB sitting unpopulated for 7 years ? I can tell you, it IS great amp, bought it this summer and do not regret one iota I did. Best bang for the buck anywhere.

Well the Meier is actually the Corda Cross pcb that Jan sold the last of back in 2006:   http://www.head-fi.org/t/165831/dr-meiers-cross-1-discussion

post #1076 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooze View Post

Well the Meier is actually the Corda Cross pcb that Jan sold the last of back in 2006:   http://www.head-fi.org/t/165831/dr-meiers-cross-1-discussion

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/portaamp.htm

 

mine is obviously more Johny Come Lately version, but it IS great little amp. Thank you for the link - given the time ...

post #1077 of 3690

Quote:

Originally Posted by ]eep View Post

I know the SL-5 because my brother still owns it. He bought it new 30Y ago. He still thinks it's a fabulous player...rolleyes.gif
WHen I bought my first TT, a Dual 505-II it slapped it all around the room. Tangential tracing is a good concept only almost impossible to do it right. Or very expensive. I really don't get it why people are so fond of Technics TT's other than for nostalgic reasons.
Just a moment ago I was listening to The Planets by Solti (VINYL2496: Gustav Holst - The Planets - 1979). When the choir came on it just sounded horrible. Really horrible distortion. I couldn't trace the setup so I looked it up in google how it was done. I give you 1 guess... (yes, the SL1200). eek.gif

Duals always sucked (JMHO)  My Elac Miracord 50H would run circles around the Dual 1219.  My buddy loved Garrard's, but they were worse than both.  That was the big 3 at the time, though (1972).  All of that was way before Technics was even a glimmer in the US.  If memory serves, Garrard came out with the Zero 100 in late '72 - the first with a zero tracking error (or so they marketed it), but it was really an articulated linkage that mechanically corrected for the tangential error - anti-skating was still heavily in need, AFAIR.  The Technics turntables brought out the true linear tracking several years later.

 

*Sigh* I guess I'm going too far back with turntables and my albums.  How about an original MFSL Dark Side of the Moon (1978)?  That's a little later.wink.gif  Sh*t - I'm too old.  I'm gonna go grab a beer and forget about it. beerchug.gif

post #1078 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

Quote:
*Sigh* I guess I'm going too far back with turntables and my albums.  How about an original MFSL Dark Side of the Moon (1978)?  That's a little later.wink.gif   Sh*t - I'm too old.  I'm gonna go grab a beer and forget about it. beerchug.gif

I still have all of my MFSL albums - including DSOTM. biggrin.gif
post #1079 of 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

Quote:

Duals always sucked (JMHO)  My Elac Miracord 50H would run circles around the Dual 1219.  My buddy loved Garrard's, but they were worse than both.  That was the big 3 at the time, though (1972).  All of that was way before Technics was even a glimmer in the US.  If memory serves, Garrard came out with the Zero 100 in late '72 - the first with a zero tracking error (or so they marketed it), but it was really an articulated linkage that mechanically corrected for the tangential error - anti-skating was still heavily in need, AFAIR.  The Technics turntables brought out the true linear tracking several years later.

 

*Sigh* I guess I'm going too far back with turntables and my albums.  How about an original MFSL Dark Side of the Moon (1978)?  That's a little later.wink.gif  Sh*t - I'm too old.  I'm gonna go grab a beer and forget about it. beerchug.gif

As much as I like Technics SL, it was not Technics who brought out true linear tracking. Ladies ( if any on this thread ) and gentleman, THE ultimate turntable porn ( if such thing exists ) - IIRC from the original brochure " every precision finely machined component in full view, all mechanisms fascinating to operate and watch " - the one and only, the first, the unique, the incomparable, the most beautiful turntable of all time :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8SmGua7Zxg

 

here a link to great pics - do not want to "steal" them:

 

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/59344-transcriptor-transcriber-turntable.html

 

Thing has stationary unipivot pick up arm shorter than conventional headshell mounted on the lid; this is THE arm with lowest effective mass and inertia of all times; the whole platter travels left-right ( governed by the photo servo circuit ) on the rails in the base in order to maintain the tracking error to an absolute minimum; the two motors use special arrangement with the three "column weights" arranged with steel axle "bearing"" at the top of each weight and springs at the bottom in order to give required decoupling of the two sinchronous motors - unique solution to this age old problem, no other table in the world has synchronous motor(s) known to produce fair amount of vibration mounted "directly" to the same structure to which the main turntable bearing is attached - heard each and every Transcriptors save Transcriber ( they are all extremely quiet, including the Round Table ), but nowhere any reports of rumble on Transcriber to be heard about.

 

No idea how it is with feedback regarding zero suspension, not even rubber feet, but the arm itself should be the most feedback resistanr device in itself; even far better in this regard than Transcrioptors' own Vestigal pick up arm, which outperforms most more conventional designs by a really big margin. If anyone has first hand experience with Transcriber - I am all ears !


Edited by analogsurviver - 12/25/12 at 3:50pm
post #1080 of 3690

Now Spinning Deep Purple's Last Concert in Japan with Mark IV lineup (1975-1976);

 

  • Jon Lord – keyboards, backing vocals
  • Ian Paice – drums
  • David Coverdale – lead vocals
  • Glenn Hughes – bass, vocals
  • Tommy Bolin – guitar, vocals, bass

 

700

 

 

Stereo Pickup: Ortofon 2M

 

700


Edited by basman - 12/26/12 at 12:37pm
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