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Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread - Page 419  

post #6271 of 8735
So many tubes. I am kind of curious as to those of you who tons of tubes.

How do you go about listening to each set?
Do you listen to your best set and just let the others sit?
What is your usual method for breaking in tubes?
post #6272 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

So as for Siemens PCC189,

 

I'am sorry to say this but ... there is something wrong with mids to me on these tubes. I just don't get the same feeling as with Lorenz PCC88, they are somehow recessed or buried under mid-bass to me. Treble is actually nice and bass is also fine to me, but can't handle these mids on HD650. 

 

frown.gif

IMO...

 

 

The PCC189 is not a good valve for the Lyr.
 
Sure the Lyr can tolerate a valve with a 7.2 heater voltage.  Just a tad north of a PCC88 with 7V.
 
The big difference between this valve and all the usual Lyr valves if a parameter called µ. (mu)
 
It's a ratio between Mutual Conductance and Anode Resistance.  Electron flow stuff.  The important think to know is that µ is called the "Amplification Factor" or
 
a factor that measures the ability of the valve to act as an amplifier.
 
 
6922, 6DJ8, E188CC, PCC88, CCa, etc, etc.  All have a µ = 33
 
The PCC189?  µ= 65 !  Everything else I looked up had a µ = 33  Except clear topsµ = 39
 
I'm just using common sense and saying that this valve is a lot different in fundamental cathode / plate characteristics.  That's a lot more significant than heater voltage.
post #6273 of 8735
I had some luck with Telefunken pcc189s, tubes in this series may be hit or miss but they do work and Jason didn't think there would be any problems or damage to the amp from them. Those Telefunken pcc189 tubes were one of the best sounding tubes in the Lyr I'd ever heard, better than anything else I had including JAN-CEP 6922s. You'd be surprised sceleratus, they are comparatively cheap too.
post #6274 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceleratus View Post

IMO...

 

 

The PCC189 is not a good valve for the Lyr.
 
Sure the Lyr can tolerate a valve with a 7.2 heater voltage.  Just a tad north of a PCC88 with 7V.
 
The big difference between this valve and all the usual Lyr valves if a parameter called µ. (mu)
 
It's a ratio between Mutual Conductance and Anode Resistance.  Electron flow stuff.  The important think to know is that µ is called the "Amplification Factor" or
 
a factor that measures the ability of the valve to act as an amplifier.
 
 
6922, 6DJ8, E188CC, PCC88, CCa, etc, etc.  All have a µ = 33
 
The PCC189?  µ= 65 !  Everything else I looked up had a µ = 33  Except clear topsµ = 39
 
I'm just using common sense and saying that this valve is a lot different in fundamental cathode / plate characteristics.  That's a lot more significant than heater voltage.

 

PCC189 are a variable mu tube, 65 being the upper value i'd guess.

post #6275 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikepooters View Post

 

PCC189 are a variable mu tube, 65 being the upper value i'd guess.

Preface.  I have not listened to a PCC189 before.  My post was made because Flisker wasn't getting good results from his newly acquired PCC189 valves and I had never heard of a PCC189 before.  I investigated them and the mu value jumped out at me.  All the other twin triodes that are usually used have a mu of 33, including a PCC88.  Clear tops have a mu of 39 and I can't say I'm fond of them.

 

Mutual Conductance value  and Anode resistance have a range "x to y".  Mu is the product of the two.  That still won't get PCC189's close to 33.  I am not suggesting that a PCC189 will damage a Lyr.  I am SPECULATING that because of that they might not sound as good as other triodes.  ... I like reading this stuff.

 

Again I'm extrapolating my experience with clear tops to Flisker's antidote of the PCC1889.  I don't recall reading anything about them before.  But I think I would remember if they were a rock-your-world, 3-mica, stein-tilting tubes.  So, personally I will not be shopping for them.   Too many other choices right in the wheelhouse.

post #6276 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by toschek View Post

I had some luck with Telefunken pcc189s, tubes in this series may be hit or miss but they do work and Jason didn't think there would be any problems or damage to the amp from them. Those Telefunken pcc189 tubes were one of the best sounding tubes in the Lyr I'd ever heard, better than anything else I had including JAN-CEP 6922s. You'd be surprised sceleratus, they are comparatively cheap too.

Now there's the rub...

They are a value and all the great glass is going for stupid money.

So, why not try em'.

 

Cheap is a good specification.  I can never find that one on the sheet.   smile.gif

post #6277 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceleratus View Post

Preface.  I have not listened to a PCC189 before.  My post was made because Flisker wasn't getting good results from his newly acquired PCC189 valves and I had never heard of a PCC189 before.  I investigated them and the mu value jumped out at me.  All the other twin triodes that are usually used have a mu of 33, including a PCC88.  Clear tops have a mu of 39 and I can't say I'm fond of them.

 

Mutual Conductance value  and Anode resistance have a range "x to y".  Mu is the product of the two.  That still won't get PCC189's close to 33.  I am not suggesting that a PCC189 will damage a Lyr.  I am SPECULATING that because of that they might not sound as good as other triodes.  ... I like reading this stuff.

 

Again I'm extrapolating my experience with clear tops to Flisker's antidote of the PCC1889.  I don't recall reading anything about them before.  But I think I would remember if they were a rock-your-world, 3-mica, stein-tilting tubes.  So, personally I will not be shopping for them.   Too many other choices right in the wheelhouse.

 

I've found them to be better than all the other tubes i have, but i guess it depends on what headphones the individual uses.

 

For the price compared to other tubes, i'd say these are a bargain, only thing you could get for same price would be some cheap russian tubes.

post #6278 of 8735

As for my previous post, maybe it was rush statement. Will get them 30 hours and see than if any burn-in occurs.

 

My Lorenz PCC88 started doing even worse noises yesterday so, while PCC189 will be in I will try at least clean pins if it helps, because they sound fantastic with HD650 and only ones I could find on ebay are 150$ :(

post #6279 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

These look like they should be pretty good for death metal biggrin.gif


If I would have money to spare I would buy them just because of looks.

Shiit I just did. I only have my Lyr for a few days and this already the fifth pair of tubes I bought.
post #6280 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikepooters View Post

It's a shame you didn't get the A-frame dimple getter version, so bass will be a bit less but still great sounding tubes.


I asked about these a few pages back, and someone said they are pretty much junk for that sort of money, only worth about a third of the price i think. You can get better tubes for the same money.


http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1273.

Bassheadtube?l
post #6281 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timodeus View Post


Shiit I just did. I only have my Lyr for a few days and this already the fifth pair of tubes I bought.

 

Yea I also have need to buy more tubes wink.gif

post #6282 of 8735

The Phillips PCC189's have opened up lovely after a few more hours of burn-in.

 

They have very nice warmth and detail, and the mids aren't too shabby either, soundstage has gotten wider with burn-in.

 

Can't decide now if it's these or Siemens which are my favourites, gotta say i prefer the Bass on these though.

 

They are quite microphonic, but you can't have everything i guess, probably need to invest in some tube dampers.

 

They are the british Mullard made phillips like this one on ebay...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC189-7ES8-PHILIPS-NOS-BRITISH-Tube-Lampe-TSF-Rohre-Valvula-Valvola-/400452098751?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d3cce1abf

 

Seems like that is the only British version on ebay, rest are Dutch.

 

If you see some pairs go up for sale in future i'd recommend them if they are cheap enough.

post #6283 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

 

Yea I also have need to buy more tubes wink.gif

 

 

It's a sickness!  wink.gif

 

So far I've only rolled three pairs of tubes.  I like my USN-CEP 6922s so much, it's really hard to convince myself to take them out...

post #6284 of 8735
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikepooters View Post

The Phillips PCC189's have opened up lovely after a few more hours of burn-in.

 

They have very nice warmth and detail, and the mids aren't too shabby either, soundstage has gotten wider with burn-in.

 

Can't decide now if it's these or Siemens which are my favourites, gotta say i prefer the Bass on these though.

 

They are quite microphonic, but you can't have everything i guess, probably need to invest in some tube dampers.

 

They are the british Mullard made phillips like this one on ebay...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC189-7ES8-PHILIPS-NOS-BRITISH-Tube-Lampe-TSF-Rohre-Valvula-Valvola-/400452098751?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d3cce1abf

 

Seems like that is the only British version on ebay, rest are Dutch.

 

If you see some pairs go up for sale in future i'd recommend them if they are cheap enough.

 

 

Get some of Herbie's dampeners.  I couldn't say they work better than any others, but they look cool!

 

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm

post #6285 of 8735

USN-CEP 6922 ??? What the h... is this number. I really need to find some list of all possibly compatible tube types tongue_smile.gif

 

Also may I ask you guys to check out this video and tell me if noise my Lyr is doing is "normal" ? 

 

 

If it's not normal than I guess it might be because I'am using US version in EU (of course with AC-AC transformer) but there is 50Hz instead of 60Hz in the wall.


Edited by Flisker - 4/9/13 at 7:14am
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