My A/B is gonna be a bit simpler and easier. I'll be comparing the lows, mids, and highs vs the Fiio E9 as a reference point, as I know the strengths and weaknesses of the E9 compared to the stock Lyr tubes. The stock tubes are recessed in the mids and have slightly less sparkle, and the bass is more refined and controlled, but less prominent, but with more punch, and more natural, thicker tone. Going by what people are saying, the Valhalla tubes should have more prominent bass, more mids to push it closer to the E9's, and even less sparkle. Time will tell.

 

Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 4/22/11 at 5:49pm

I just ordered a pair of 6N1P from Schiit for my Lyr.

I'm so excited because this will be my first tube rolling experience.

 

I hope I can hear a difference, the $20.00 cost quickly turned to $40.00 with Canadian shipping.

 

 

Ohhh you will hear a difference Im running them now.. Waiting on some 6N1P's from Russia from the 70's so using the Schiit until they get here hahahha

I think it depends on how different the tubes are from one another.  If you have a pair of new production JJs and you are comparing them to say NOS Mullards, you will hear a pretty dramatic difference in my opinion.  LiqTenExp used to tell me "Tubes matter but not so much that I should spend (insert some high price relative to new prod tube here)," now ask him how noticeable how different the sound characteristic of the amp is with the NOS Mullard as opposed to new production JJs.  

 

 

If your ABX assessments were directed at solid state gear, providing a few criteria are met, such as, high input impedance, low output impedance, reasonably low distortion, clipping, and volume matching are all in check, I agree 100%.  However, with the inclusion of tubes in the equation, since the materials used, manufacturing processes, specifications, and diverse tooling, are all variables, and in some cases suspect, I disagree.  Also, considering the position of the analog tube in the audio reproduction chain, in the case of the Lyr being the input stage, different sounding tubes are a unavoidable, and quite evident.

 

BTW, I,ve never been know for my "golden ear."

 

 

The tubes in the amp are part of the circuit. The signal travels through them. There are circuits that have more or less influence on the sound, depending upon the placement of the tube in the circuit, such as a cathode follower, which doesn't have much influence on the sound. In this case the sound would arguably be quite influenced by the tube placement and therefore, by the inherent sound qualities of a particular tube, be that good or bad. 

Ok so here we go....

 

I stopped by forum member Wedge's house yesterday with a plan to try some tube rolling in the LYR.  

 

Setup consisted of a Laptop feeding a DAC_I via USB or a Pure I-20 via coax to drive the LYR.  Headphones used were Audeze LCD-2 (two pairs), and Beyer DT990-600

 

One type of tube was placed in one channel and the competitor tube was placed in the other channel on the LYR for comparison purposes.  This way one could use a L/R fader and easily back to back compare the tubes.  Once the comparison was complete the tubes were swapped L/R to verify the comparison was still valid the other way around in the reviewers ears.  

 

Mullard CV2492 (1960's style)

You already know what I think of these from my previous review.  This is to me my golden standard for the next couple reviews.  They are though the most expensive tube in this review by far.

 

Amperex A-Frames ECC88 (Holland made)

These tubes are very similar to the Mullards.  Their mids were a little more grity sounding, highs are very close, bass was lacking a tiny tiny bit of extension but levels were darn close.  Might next best choice to the Mullards.  I had a hard time choosing between these and the Mullards when it came down to selecting my favorite pair.

 

Ampered Bugle Boys 6DJ8 (Holland made)

Overall the Bugle Boys were leaner, airy, light on bass, (less lush) than the Mullards.  I wasn't a fan of them but they sound like a brighter JJ (less veiled)

 

Telefunken E88CC (German made)

Got a little funky, nice sounding tube, less wet/lush in the mids but equivalent in highs/lows to the Mullards, Might be a good tube for someone looking for something a little airy compared to the lush sound of the Mullards.  I think some people may find these a better alternative to the A-Frame Amperex depending on their personal preferences.  

 

My two favorites, very close in sound but not in price, LOL

 

Guess the tubes?

 

Setup: LD DAC_I driving Lyr and then later switched to NFB-12

 

 

Headphones used during comparison (Audeze LCD2- Beyerdynamics DT990-600)

 

Travel light always, right? (NFB-12, DAC_I, LYR, LD MKIII, cables, tubes)

 

Camera case, LCD-2, DT990, backpack full of stuff (HD, stand, cables, etc)

 

I would like to thank forum member Wedge for the excellent selection of NOS tubes to roll through.  I imagine he will chime in with his own opinions.  One thing we both will agree on, the Mullards were identifiable when comparing them side to side to any of these tubes.  The A-Frame Amperex and the Telefunken were a very good choice of tube to roll to depending on personal preferences.  I don't want it to sound like the Mullards are the "only" option out there.  They were for me but everyone has their own opinions.  I know Wedge really liked the Telefunkens.

 

My favorite tubes in order:

 

1. Mullards
2. Amperex A-Frames
3. Telefunken
4. Bugle Boys
5. Siemens
6. JJ (stock)

 

 

Oh, and maybe we will do a quick review on Leben 300XS vs. Lyr (both with Mullard tubes) setup in the main Lyr thread?:

 

This was hard for us to really hate either....look for a comparison in the main Lyr thread (will link to later once complete)

Edited by LiqTenExp - 4/24/11 at 5:53am

Very nice post! The Mullard 2492 are my personal favorite 6DJ8 variant as well, it's what I use in my Woo WA2.

GREAT review, and superb pictures!!! Just wondering what you thoughts on 6N1P tubes Schiit is currently offering for $20.

I haven't picked up a set yet, not sure if I want to bother but for the price possibly.

Yes. Awesome pics and comparison. Would have been nice to have had the gold lions and the Shiit 6N1P's there too to give some understandable reference in sound quality. I guess you could achieve that by comparing back to stock.

Good work none the less.

That would make for quite the review, if anyone wants to loan me a set we can take a listen.  Right now I am very happy with the current selection.  I don't know if I want to pop for another 90 bucks to try the gold lions.  I will probably try the 6n1p eventually.

 

Thanks for the comments on the pictures.  I am still learning, first DSLR.  Shooting in the darker light levels is rough.  I refuse to use the stock flash since it just whites everything out.  I plan on getting a nice canon EX series so I can flash up or dispersed.  For now all of those were taken w/o flash.

Edited by LiqTenExp - 4/24/11 at 7:27am

That would be awesome. Have been listening to 6N1P for several days. Tried to switch back to JJ once, but immediately switched back in 15 mins. :-) The only complaint i have with 6N1P right now is that the vocal sometimes is too close for my taste, almost Grado like i would say.

A pair of 6N1Ps for $20? You can pick these up on ebay for $2 or less a piece. You can also get the 6N1P-EV, a ruggedized version of the 6N1P.

Well, what you get from Schiit is a matched set, plus their reputation and warranty. i think that it is worth the extra, especially it's only $20 after all. A lot of things are much cheaper on eBay, but i would rather buy from the trade forum here.