Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread - Page 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaHawk 

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Can you say that any tube that has been tested is still NOS?

 

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Yes. That is the accepted social convention.

NOS simply means that the tubes have not been used.

There is no room for debate here.

The point that Kremer930 and MrScary were trying to make was precisely that.

Tubes advertised as NOS should adhere to the social convention.

Social convention also suggests that the burn-in before testing does not count as used.

Power tubes need at least a 24 hr burn-in before they can stabilize and be tested and matched.

This is carried out by reliable sellers for e.g. such as Kevin Deal from upscale audio.

From my own personal experience with preamp tubes, I have also encountered tubes which require at least 5 hrs of burn-in before reliable testing can be done.

As for your point about giving other Ebay sellers a heads-up here, I don't see how that exonerates the seller.

There are other non-headfi Ebay buyers out there who could have bid for those tubes because of the "NOS" moniker.

What some of you are skirting around is "pulled" tubes.  Yes - they are used, but in many cases, are as good as NOS, for all practical purposes.  True, it's a buyer-beware situation, but there's a real issue as to whether a truly NOS tube that's been sitting on a shelf or in a box perhaps corroding for 40-50 years is in as good condition as a tube that was at least plugged in and had power applied to it for a few years.  In very few cases are the tubes we use in headphone amps under the same conditions as those for which they were originally designed.  That could be better or worse, depending on the tube type.

More to the point - IMHO, ebay is the absolute worst place to buy tubes.  There is never a good buy on any tubes unless they are being sold in sufficient quantity (100 or more?).  Once you add the shipping cost, they seem to be always more expensive than purchasing from a reputable dealer such as Tube Depot, The Tube Store, Antique Electronic Supply, Radio Electric Supply, Orlando Tubes, Vacuum Tubes Inc., etc., etc. 

What part of "New" do people not understand?

Any tube which has been plugged in and used in some kind of machine, other than for test only purposes, is no longer New.

It is Fraud to apply that description when you know that it is not true.  Some people will use the term NOS out of greed to maximise their selling price but let's not defend those actions.

I have bought tubes before from MrScary and MrRogers and I would comfortably vouch for their honesty and extreme levels of courtesy and service.  We should aim to hold Head-fi to these standards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremer930 

What part of "New" do people not understand?

</snip>

Maybe because "New" is in a different context when everything is 40-50 years "Old?"  Why do you think the NOS acronym came about?  It can mean a number of things in the real market.  There's no regulatory agency or standards committee that governs and tests the suitability of the "NOS" description.
 

New Old Stock means new and unused but not of a current or recent manufacturing vintage.  Any other interpretation is outside of that commonly understood.  If you mean a slightly different interpretation then why not use it or add an addendum to the NOS moniker.

I have given my 5 cents worth.  The general populace know what they expect when buying NOS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremer930 

New Old Stock means new and unused but not of a current or recent manufacturing vintage.  Any other interpretation is outside of that commonly understood.  If you mean a slightly different interpretation then why not use it or add an addendum to the NOS moniker.

 

I have given my 5 cents worth.  The general populace know what they expect when buying NOS.

Sorry - I didn't mean to offend sensibilities here, just trying to give you a dose of reality.

There's no way of reliably telling NOS tubes from "pulled" tubes .. and I mean that, seriously.  I purchase and re-sell thousands of tubes from reputable distributors and have tested that many, too. They either test OK or they don't.  There are some that may have what appears to be used getter flashes, but you cannot really tell that from a manufacturing variance.  Even if the pins are bent, you can't be certain that they weren't simply tested at one point and jerked out of the socket.  And don't even mention cosmetics.  You can get pulled tube or un-used OEM tubes in inboxed egg crates before the seller's label was even painted on the glass - you still can't tell.  As for those sitting on the shelves that have been branded and boxed, I've seen them with pins so corroded it almost takes a chisel to cut the green mushrooms off.  That doesn't mean that they weren't "New" and "Unused."

It's a marketable distinction that many vendors use to their advantage.  It's to your disadvantage to exclude others that don't do that, that's all.

We're wandering way off topic and partially my fault for fueling the fire..  My apologies and let's hear about some more tubes someone stuck into their Lyr!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaHawk 

*snip*

eBay... No where will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Yes, Ebay is worse than Mos Eisley spaceport.   

I'm done with Ebay too, my first purchase on Ebay was a success, I bought some Brimars for 50$ which were sold as used and matched. They looked brand new and were perfectly volume matched. Two times I have bough GE 6BZ7, both were advertised as NOS, but only one pair looked new, the other looked old and worn, both pairs have slight volume imbalance. Oh, well, the last set were only 3$ pr. tube.

+2 This is the reality of the tube market with very, very old tubes.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb 

Sorry - I didn't mean to offend sensibilities here, just trying to give you a dose of reality.

 

There's no way of reliably telling NOS tubes from "pulled" tubes .. and I mean that, seriously.  I purchase and re-sell thousands of tubes from reputable distributors and have tested that many, too. They either test OK or they don't.  There are some that may have what appears to be used getter flashes, but you cannot really tell that from a manufacturing variance.  Even if the pins are bent, you can't be certain that they weren't simply tested at one point and jerked out of the socket.  And don't even mention cosmetics.  You can get pulled tube or un-used OEM tubes in inboxed egg crates before the seller's label was even painted on the glass - you still can't tell.  As for those sitting on the shelves that have been branded and boxed, I've seen them with pins so corroded it almost takes a chisel to cut the green mushrooms off.  That doesn't mean that they weren't "New" and "Unused."

 

It's a marketable distinction that many vendors use to their advantage.  It's to your disadvantage to exclude others that don't do that, that's all.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrScary 


Good glad to see you go... Representing tubes as NOS is simple they should be NOS as Kremer said and I said before. this is Headfi here dude!!! If you want to rip people of do it on Ebay and don't mention it. I would hope that you come to your senses.
if you choose to debate I will rip your poor attempt at logic apart.. I myself have sold many many tubes both on Ebay and here to members of Head-fi. I surely would not brag about being a total idiot and say "Its Ebay" umm no this is not Ebay understand what page you are on.
if you have that much intellect which I doubt.
Go now be on your way!
Before we start with Basic Logic 101 which you would fail!

Ok this is getting into personal attack. Just because we have different views on NOS doesn't give you the right to attack others.

If you want to continue this, you can PM me. No point having pointless post here to derail this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koonhua90 

Ok this is getting into personal attack. Just because we have different views on NOS doesn't give you the right to attack others.

I'd tend to agree.  A post in poor taste at best, and libel at worst.

Can we focus on the Lyr and tubes now please?

Just stuck in some IEC 6DJ8/ECC88's and can't believe the difference in clarity over the Russian 6N1P-EV's, but unfortunately getting a nice 60Hz hum from only one of the tubes...  Is this something that might go away after a few dozen hours of burn-in?

I'm certain that the hum would be substantially less with headphones with less sensitivity than these Grado RS2i's (about any other headphone out there, really).  Really don't want to ditch these tubes!

Good news!  After a few hours that hum has faded to be inaudible.  We'll see if it stays that way after a few heat cycles.

Now waiting on some USN-CEP Amperex 7308's from a beloved forum member to try next :)

Does anyone have a summary post of this thread so far?  I just bought a lyr and 178 pages is a lot to go through!