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Review & Appreciation: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference - A new level of resolution? (Review posted... - Page 63

post #931 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

When it comes to custom IEMs, we must never forget there is absolutely nothing quite like the Future Sonics MG6Pro, and that is an absolutely indisputable fact — every single MG6Pro owner has stated they have never—ever—heard anything better. Nothing comes remotely close to the absolute perfection of the MG6Pro.
Well it looks like you are indeed not so fond of your species' natural ennemy. I would not begrudge you such thought. And also, lol if I may say.
post #932 of 1975

I own the MG6PRO, worst earphone out of all my collections (literally, I prefer IE8 over these)... The mids is weird as hell, there's a very strange bump at high-mids just as described by shotgunShane (if you happen to have read his impression, I agree with him 100%). The bass is over emphasized and the highs? wait, there's highs on these? ok, maybe high-mids or low treble...


Edited by czqdtc - 6/26/13 at 9:57am
post #933 of 1975

I am not sure when he is joking and when he is not but I think this he is absolutely trolling rolleyes.gif

post #934 of 1975

Just for the record, I'm another MG6 Pro owner who thinks they're a waste of money.

 

But then I didn't have an amazing experience with the SE-5, either.

 

 

C'est la vie...

post #935 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

When it comes to custom IEMs, we must never forget there is absolutely nothing quite like the Future Sonics MG6Pro, and that is an absolutely indisputable fact — every single MG6Pro owner has stated they have never—ever—heard anything better. Nothing comes remotely close to the absolute perfection of the MG6Pro.


It's a little silly how threatened you guys seem to be. I'm not sure how invested in this odd ad-hominem mindset you are, but I'll address things at least so others can understand who wish to.

First, some corrections:

AJ, I've had two weeks with a set of SE5s that I get a perfect seal with, not vaccuum, not poorly sealed. if you were trying to imply I hadn't heard them, then that is misleading.

Mimouille, your personal attack is incorrect, I don't disagree with AJ automatically and even a cursory glance at reviews we've written for the same earphone, such as the 8.A, proves this. We agree on how we hear the 8.A, although we may not draw exactly the same conclusions from that-this is the point that Music seems to be unable to understand.

Now, Music, I am very different than you, I don't go in for fanboyism. I'm going to blow your mind now.

First, I have never said ANY earphone of any kind is perfect for everyone. And I have dissuaded people who have asked via pm from buying, at different times, pretty much every earphone I've heard. That includes the mg6pro, the 8.A, etc. I'll do the same for the se5, although it's one of the nicest earphones I've heard. Yes, it has some issues, too. I think Astral Storm has done a great job with a balanced review of it.

Further, I enjoyed the k3003 and I have enjoyed the 1plus2.

The problem is that people seem to personally identify with an earphone and become very upset over anything that is not absolute adulation. So, a positive, balanced review is perceived as a very negative one. For example, I enjoyed the ex-1000 a lot, but Music was upset and said I disliked it because it wasn't the be-all-end-all. It seems like an inability to accept nuance and a balanced take on things. The k3003, I liked with some caveats but based on how often Music brings up things that I, purrin, analixus, LFF ,etc. heard, he's still upset and of course that ends up being what's talked about. If he'd been cool about it, the whole issue of coherance between drivers would have been a much smaller presence on hf. Weirdly, one guy who was so upset over the coherency issue didn't even know what the term meant (he ended up trying to say that the k3003 had better coherence than single driver headphones). He was just mad that there was anything at all that was a criticism.

Meanwhile, for the mg6pro, it's not like any earphone is a sorry stand-in for a sense of self. You can like or dislike as you choose. Take Soundfreaq, he and I hear the mg6pro the same (here's the part which Music doesn't understand)-I think that's important because it means there is some consistancy and a basis for discussion (and we both have fully functioning earphones, etc.), but it doesn't mean we fully agree or have the same take. He likes some other earphones better that I don't like as much. It doesn't mean he hates the mg6pro, not that it matters, nor do I have to spend a hundred posts referencing his opinion. We both get to have balanced ideas and still like each other (not to speak for him!).

The se5 issue should be discussed as it has perhaps come out differently in PMs than on the boards so more discussion is welcome. If Gregorz has changed things for any reason, why not talk about it? Going into damage control only makes it look odd.
post #936 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post


It's a little silly how threatened you guys seem to be. I'm not sure how invested in this odd ad-hominem mindset you are, but I'll address things at least so others can understand who wish to.

First, some corrections:

AJ, I've had two weeks with a set of SE5s that I get a perfect seal with, not vaccuum, not poorly sealed. if you were trying to imply I hadn't heard them, then that is misleading.

Mimouille, your personal attack is incorrect, I don't disagree with AJ automatically and even a cursory glance at reviews we've written for the same earphone, such as the 8.A, proves this. We agree on how we hear the 8.A, although we may not draw exactly the same conclusions from that-this is the point that Music seems to be unable to understand.

Now, Music, I am very different than you, I don't go in for fanboyism. I'm going to blow your mind now.

First, I have never said ANY earphone of any kind is perfect for everyone. And I have dissuaded people who have asked via pm from buying, at different times, pretty much every earphone I've heard. That includes the mg6pro, the 8.A, etc. I'll do the same for the se5, although it's one of the nicest earphones I've heard. Yes, it has some issues, too. I think Astral Storm has done a great job with a balanced review of it.

Further, I enjoyed the k3003 and I have enjoyed the 1plus2.

The problem is that people seem to personally identify with an earphone and become very upset over anything that is not absolute adulation. So, a positive, balanced review is perceived as a very negative one. For example, I enjoyed the ex-1000 a lot, but Music was upset and said I disliked it because it wasn't the be-all-end-all. It seems like an inability to accept nuance and a balanced take on things. The k3003, I liked with some caveats but based on how often Music brings up things that I, purrin, analixus, LFF ,etc. heard, he's still upset and of course that ends up being what's talked about. If he'd been cool about it, the whole issue of coherance between drivers would have been a much smaller presence on hf. Weirdly, one guy who was so upset over the coherency issue didn't even know what the term meant (he ended up trying to say that the k3003 had better coherence than single driver headphones). He was just mad that there was anything at all that was a criticism.

Meanwhile, for the mg6pro, it's not like any earphone is a sorry stand-in for a sense of self. You can like or dislike as you choose. Take Soundfreaq, he and I hear the mg6pro the same (here's the part which Music doesn't understand)-I think that's important because it means there is some consistancy and a basis for discussion (and we both have fully functioning earphones, etc.), but it doesn't mean we fully agree or have the same take. He likes some other earphones better that I don't like as much. It doesn't mean he hates the mg6pro, not that it matters, nor do I have to spend a hundred posts referencing his opinion. We both get to have balanced ideas and still like each other (not to speak for him!).

The se5 issue should be discussed as it has perhaps come out differently in PMs than on the boards so more discussion is welcome. If Gregorz has changed things for any reason, why not talk about it? Going into damage control only makes it look odd.

 

Kunlun,

 

There is so much—really so much—I could say about your post above, dissect so many parts of it (as well as many other posts you've written), but this would seriously derail this thread and get the mods (practically instantly) removing several posts.

 

I'll just say this, though: your account of events is pretty inaccurate, awfully one-sided, and very misleading.

post #937 of 1975
Keep in mind you're not the only one holding your tongue, at least on hf... so yes, let's bring things back to topic.
post #938 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Keep in mind you're not the only one holding your tongue, at least on hf... so yes, let's bring things back to topic.

 

For someone who says, "keep in mind you're not the only one holding your tongue, at least on hf", after your previous lengthy post, your comment seems rather, er... inappropriate?

 

(this is my last post on the subject)

post #939 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post


It's a little silly how threatened you guys seem to be. I'm not sure how invested in this odd ad-hominem mindset you are, but I'll address things at least so others can understand who wish to.

First, some corrections:

AJ, I've had two weeks with a set of SE5s that I get a perfect seal with, not vaccuum, not poorly sealed. if you were trying to imply I hadn't heard them, then that is misleading.

Mimouille, your personal attack is incorrect, I don't disagree with AJ automatically and even a cursory glance at reviews we've written for the same earphone, such as the 8.A, proves this. We agree on how we hear the 8.A, although we may not draw exactly the same conclusions from that-this is the point that Music seems to be unable to understand.

Now, Music, I am very different than you, I don't go in for fanboyism. I'm going to blow your mind now.

First, I have never said ANY earphone of any kind is perfect for everyone. And I have dissuaded people who have asked via pm from buying, at different times, pretty much every earphone I've heard. That includes the mg6pro, the 8.A, etc. I'll do the same for the se5, although it's one of the nicest earphones I've heard. Yes, it has some issues, too. I think Astral Storm has done a great job with a balanced review of it.

Further, I enjoyed the k3003 and I have enjoyed the 1plus2.

The problem is that people seem to personally identify with an earphone and become very upset over anything that is not absolute adulation. So, a positive, balanced review is perceived as a very negative one. For example, I enjoyed the ex-1000 a lot, but Music was upset and said I disliked it because it wasn't the be-all-end-all. It seems like an inability to accept nuance and a balanced take on things. The k3003, I liked with some caveats but based on how often Music brings up things that I, purrin, analixus, LFF ,etc. heard, he's still upset and of course that ends up being what's talked about. If he'd been cool about it, the whole issue of coherance between drivers would have been a much smaller presence on hf. Weirdly, one guy who was so upset over the coherency issue didn't even know what the term meant (he ended up trying to say that the k3003 had better coherence than single driver headphones). He was just mad that there was anything at all that was a criticism.

Meanwhile, for the mg6pro, it's not like any earphone is a sorry stand-in for a sense of self. You can like or dislike as you choose. Take Soundfreaq, he and I hear the mg6pro the same (here's the part which Music doesn't understand)-I think that's important because it means there is some consistancy and a basis for discussion (and we both have fully functioning earphones, etc.), but it doesn't mean we fully agree or have the same take. He likes some other earphones better that I don't like as much. It doesn't mean he hates the mg6pro, not that it matters, nor do I have to spend a hundred posts referencing his opinion. We both get to have balanced ideas and still like each other (not to speak for him!).

The se5 issue should be discussed as it has perhaps come out differently in PMs than on the boards so more discussion is welcome. If Gregorz has changed things for any reason, why not talk about it? Going into damage control only makes it look odd.

I CERTAINLY do not feel threatened by you, nor will ever be, even in a million years. Apart from that, if I was to say what I truly think about anything you said, it would require dissecting all your posts, and also expressing thoughts that would certainly get me banned from the internet until they invent a new technology to replace it.

 

So indeed let us get back on topic. But just so you get an small taste of what I mean, approximately 80% of the things you posts in the threads I follow make headfi a much less enjoyable experience for me, and may in certain instances alter the taste of the food I am eating. But what can you do, interpersonal alchemy is not a given.


Edited by Mimouille - 6/26/13 at 11:34pm
post #940 of 1975
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

It's a little silly how threatened you guys seem to be.

 

Not sure who this is directed at, but it is comical coming from the person that vehemently attacks anyone that posted anything negative in certain threads.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

First, some corrections:

AJ, I've had two weeks with a set of SE5s that I get a perfect seal with, not vaccuum, not poorly sealed. if you were trying to imply I hadn't heard them, then that is misleading.

 

How is this a correction?  Where did I state you hadn't heard them.  I am just asking for proof, a little something to give you credibility here.  Who loaned theirs to you?  Show us a picture next to your mg6pro and then people won't have issues with you joining the conversation.

 

Here is your quote from another forum:

 

Quote:
I hear these just the way AS does. I like them a lot, too bad the new version is nerfed. I have a theory about average_joe's "the se5 magically changes soundstage" thing, other than he thinks that about every iem set he really likes: I notice that the armatures in AS's SE5 are about equidistant from the end of the nozzle. This is quite different from other high-end multi ba iems/ciems. The 8.A, AS-2 and others all really put a lot of effort into putting the treble BAs as close to the end of the nozzle as they can. These ciem makers say it makes a huge difference. So, I thinking that a_j's reporting on something that happens a lot with multi ba designs--you hear one section of the frequency response as closer or farther away than another. On the AS-2 that I have (which needs a bit of a re-fit) this is part of the design. As a stage monitor, it's engineered to bring the vocals closer to you, which is perfect for a musician performing. Perhaps something similar, whether planned or unplanned (guess the latter) is happening with a_j's se5?

Also, I'll write up a short comparison my girlfriend did for me of the se5, 1plus2 and mg6pro. She listened to them for 2hours back and forth, and just commented on what stood out to her. I'm reviewed out, so it's a bit fun.

 

So, the SE5 fits you with a "perfect seal" AND your girlfriend's ears as well; what are the odds?  Or did she listen to a different SE5?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

The se5 issue should be discussed as it has perhaps come out differently in PMs than on the boards so more discussion is welcome. If Gregorz has changed things for any reason, why not talk about it? Going into damage control only makes it look odd.
 

Per the manufacturer, there has been no revamping of the product.  

 

Can't wait to see your reply to the above questions, and of course pictures. 

post #941 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

Just for the record, I'm another MG6 Pro owner who thinks they're a waste of money.

 

But then I didn't have an amazing experience with the SE-5, either.

 

 

C'est la vie...

 

Oh you really had the SE5 as well? What didn't you like about them?

post #942 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

Oh you really had the SE5 as well? What didn't you like about them?

 

Hi Lee, my experiences of the SE-5 are already well-documented within this very thread.

 

I'm not 'bashing' the SE-5 by any means, but, as I have described earlier in this thread, I do feel quite certain that there is some as-yet-not-identified variable that seems to be leading to some pairs of SE-5s not sounding as stellar as most pairs evidently do. Whether it's some tiny phase alignment issue or some other factor, I don't know, but some people find they sound incredible whilst others (myself included) find them very significantly dark, uneven in freq response, and even, dare I say it, a little claustrophobic-sounding. And before anyone assumes this is just a matter of 'taste', or 'poor source' or high output impedance, NO.  IMO, this is not due to any of those factors. There is something actually 'not right' about the sound, in this small number of cases.

 

Now, again, I want to stress that I recognise that only a small number of people have found them problematic, so I'm in no way implying that they are a poor product; far from it.

I just think they are one of the most complex CIEM designs on the market and that the complexity means there are potentially more variables at play which may influence, for better or worse, how each pair of SE-5s sound. Just as with fullsize loudspeakers (perhaps even more so), the complete science is not yet understood.

 

The fact that I have posted my less-than-stellar experiences is not because I have an axe to grind. Not at all. Grzegorz treated me very well and was professional all the way. No, the reason I have posted my experiences is simply out of honesty and openness. What is, is, and a community in denial is a neurotic, unhealthy community that does not truly serve the needs of its members. Grzegorz' products have the quality to withstand the experiences and reports of those of us who didn't find nirvana in them, and prospective customers have a right to a rounded viewpoint, formed from hearing both sides. In fact, I believe that benefits the prospective customer and the vendor, and the community at large (speaking of which, for anyone who'd like to see a current example of this, in action, stop by the X3 / X5 threads and see how James (head of Fiio) is openly discussing pros, cons, and concerns of his customers; it's an object lesson in how to conduct good business). It should be very obvious to the more seasoned head-fiers, when they read a thread that is entirely positive, that experience should tell them alarm bells should probably be ringing in their mind. No product is entirely perfect, and threads that pretend otherwise undermine the credibility of the vendor and the community. There is room for hearing all experiences, good and bad.

 

Speaking generally, I can attest to the superb build quality of the SE-5, and to Grzegorz' truly exemplary customer service, ethos, and competence.

 

If anyone is considering buying an SE-5 but is concerned about the experiences of the minority, I would say that all CIEMs carry some risk of dissatisfaction, as most of us CIEM-ers can testify. The SE-5 is a top quality product, there is a very good probability that your prospective pair will sound every bit as amazing as Joe's apparently do, and Grzegorz is a pleasure to do business with.

 

 

.


Edited by Mython - 6/27/13 at 4:50am
post #943 of 1975

Thanks for that Mython. You are not the first I've heard such comments from. But then again this can be said about the 8As and others Custom IEMs as well. So consistency may play a part in all of this as well as fit/our ear canals. It's good to hear both sides of the story. Although I still do want an SE5 for myself down the road.
 

post #944 of 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

I can attest that Mython was among the people I talked to before buying the SE5 and he was less fully enthusiast than others. However his comments felt measured and honest so I took them into account, and it allowed me to have a more complete view of what I was stepping into, all the more so that he own the Miracles just like me. And I thank him for that.

 

Some of his fidnings I find true to some extent IN MY EXPERIENCE: the SE5 were less open sounding than the Miracles, less airy, and slightly darker. Other things I have not noticed, but I am not a critical listener... However, some of these aspects changed somehow with the source. For instance, I find the Miracles slightly darker with the AK120 than the SE5...that is maybe due to AK120 output impedance.

 

I would not like the SE5 owners to be seen as fanboys, I think we can all take healthy comments / criticism. What I usually react adversely, here and in any other thread, to is people who:

  • Seem to repeat the same criticism all the time when they have already been acknowledge
  • Start / spread information that is not verified, certainly not by them
  • Seem to take pleasure in telling people their iem is faulty
  • Criticize just for the pleasure of showing technical proffiency

 

Since you are none of these, far from it Mython, thank you for your contribution (s).

post #945 of 1975

Agree, my SE5 is less airy, slightly darker and a tiny bit slower than my Miracle. I think this is silicon housing's properties.. I notice that Custom Art also describe their IEM as more intimate and warmer than acrylic. 

Interesting (and surprising) finding with the AK120 Mimo. I wouldn't expect the Miracle to be slightly darker than the SE5.. Usually high output impedance will effect the bass and make IEM sounds brighter.

I'm buying the AK120 from ace8888. Seems like the AK120 pairs nicely with SE5 and Miracle. Is there anything you don't like about AK120/SE5/Miracle pairing?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

I can attest that Mython was among the people I talked to before buying the SE5 and he was less fully enthusiast than others. However his comments felt measured and honest so I took them into account, and it allowed me to have a more complete view of what I was stepping into, all the more so that he own the Miracles just like me. And I thank him for that.

 

Some of his fidnings I find true to some extent IN MY EXPERIENCE: the SE5 were less open sounding than the Miracles, less airy, and slightly darker. Other things I have not noticed, but I am not a critical listener... However, some of these aspects changed somehow with the source. For instance, I find the Miracles slightly darker with the AK120 than the SE5...that is maybe due to AK120 output impedance.

 

I would not like the SE5 owners to be seen as fanboys, I think we can all take healthy comments / criticism. What I usually react adversely, here and in any other thread, to is people who:

  • Seem to repeat the same criticism all the time when they have already been acknowledge
  • Start / spread information that is not verified, certainly not by them
  • Seem to take pleasure in telling people their iem is faulty
  • Criticize just for the pleasure of showing technical proffiency

 

Since you are none of these, far from it Mython, thank you for your contribution (s).

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Review & Appreciation: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference - A new level of resolution? (Review posted 5/15/12)