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Software EQ's that don't distort? - Page 3

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post

What EQs would you recommend for that?
 

 


See post #14.

 

post #32 of 45


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaudio View Post

My question is why are you all EQ'ing anyway?  It really shouldn't be necessary especially with higher end cans and amps.....


This one's simple, because we EQ it to sound exactly as we want it to sound like personally, I don't want the sound to be completely flat, here let me do a quick illustration (ph43r my MSpaint sk1llz :p) roughly how I think the frequency response should be like to sound optimal to me:

 

eq curve2.jpg

 

I prefer this gently slanting slope frequency response for a warmer sound with boosted mids and bass and slightly recessed highs.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 5/3/11 at 2:46am
post #33 of 45


This is heresy I tell you basshead.gif!!  All kidding aside, engineers spend loads of time making adjustments, often times in the order of tenths of a db on EQ's that cost thousands of dollars, and then you guys go around and screw it all up!

 

All eq's have artifacts, even linear phase ones.  Furthermore, most CD's released in the last decade or so were dithered down to 16 bit from 24 bit during the mastering process and often noise shaping was applied as well.  Applying any kind of processing after noise shaping is really not a good idea.

 

Having said all that, if you like the way it sounds, EQ away to your hearts content!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post


 


This one's simple, because we EQ it to sound exactly as we want it to sound like personally, I don't want the sound to be completely flat, here let me do a quick illustration (ph43r my MSpaint sk1llz :p) roughly how I think the frequency response should be like to sound optimal to me:

 

eq curve2.jpg

 

I prefer this gently slanting slope frequency response for a warmer sound with boosted mids and bass and slightly recessed highs.



 

post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaudio View Post

Having said all that, if you like the way it sounds, EQ away to your hearts content!


Yes I will. :p I let my own ears decide what I like most and go by that, I don't care how it's been mixed/mastered. The problem is that we all got different taste how it should sound like and I don't see anything wrong with that, isn't it all about enjoying the music as much as possible? I'm sorry if that offends the author of the music but I've paid for the products and I intend to take the most possible enjoyment out of it which I can take. I also think more people than they think are unaware of their true preference how it should sound like and only pursue as flat sound as possible cuz other people or sources on the internet said that's the way to go. I'm not talking about any big derivations from flat sound but I wonder what exactly would prove that a perfect flat response curve in headphones is the ideal for every1 and not just a strong theory? It's impossible to tell everything about us humans how our senses works like and what decides our personal preferences etc. but I'm sure completely flat response isn't my thing at least.

 

post #35 of 45

rjaudio, but HPs still have uneveness in their FR (mostly in highs), that the engineers don't "predict", as it's mostly a matter of driver-eardum disance which is a bit different for each HP/person.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial

post #36 of 45



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaudio View Post


This is heresy I tell you basshead.gif!!  All kidding aside, engineers spend loads of time making adjustments, often times in the order of tenths of a db on EQ's that cost thousands of dollars, and then you guys go around and screw it all up!

 

All eq's have artifacts, even linear phase ones.  Furthermore, most CD's released in the last decade or so were dithered down to 16 bit from 24 bit during the mastering process and often noise shaping was applied as well.  Applying any kind of processing after noise shaping is really not a good idea.

 

Having said all that, if you like the way it sounds, EQ away to your hearts content!



 



I agree with this. I used to use hardware EQ's and always adjust my treble and bass freq. knobs on all my gear but then I eventually started buying quality kit and realized I didn't have to use that EQ anymore or adjust any freg at all. I keep everything at 0db and with quality amps, speakers and sources I hear the music as it was meant to be heard. So far I've found many headphones to not be very neutral though I do own a pair that are quite close (Sony MDR-V6) and I have been on the hunt for the perfect set of headphones.

 

I also agree that everyone has the right to listen to music 'how' you want to but I have to admit that I cring when I see them being used with good equipment and speakers. Low end kit...yeah..you might need an EQ to get decent sound...

 

 

 

post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amish View Post


I agree with this. I used to use hardware EQ's and always adjust my treble and bass freq. knobs on all my gear but then I eventually started buying quality kit and realized I didn't have to use that EQ anymore or adjust any freg at all. I keep everything at 0db and with quality amps, speakers and sources I hear the music as it was meant to be heard. So far I've found many headphones to not be very neutral though I do own a pair that are quite close (Sony MDR-V6) and I have been on the hunt for the perfect set of headphones.

 

I also agree that everyone has the right to listen to music 'how' you want to but I have to admit that I cring when I see them being used with good equipment and speakers. Low end kit...yeah..you might need an EQ to get decent sound...

 

 

 



I love how you use "quality" all over the place, as well as hearing "music as it was meant to be heard"

 

I also love how people use both software and hardware EQ on "Low end kit" like HD800, T1, LCD-2, etc. So maybe you should come down from your high horse and greet the commoners. LOL.

 

EQ is meant to correct flaws on both the recording and/or the hardware. Just like lorafenik said, and very well I might add, no set of headphones has a flat frequency, and that makes EQing a part of the sound correction procedures. Yet, not everyone does it, and I fully respect, as they want to appreciate the gear just like it came to them.

 

Some people like EQing, some don't. That's no reason to state that a preference is better than the other.


Edited by Roller - 5/3/11 at 11:53am
post #38 of 45

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaudio View Post


This is heresy I tell you basshead.gif!!  All kidding aside, engineers spend loads of time making adjustments, often times in the order of tenths of a db on EQ's that cost thousands of dollars, and then you guys go around and screw it all up!

 

All eq's have artifacts, even linear phase ones.  Furthermore, most CD's released in the last decade or so were dithered down to 16 bit from 24 bit during the mastering process and often noise shaping was applied as well.  Applying any kind of processing after noise shaping is really not a good idea.

 

Having said all that, if you like the way it sounds, EQ away to your hearts content!



 


I'm starting to doubt you're really a "pro." You say all pros EQ and do so especially with the final result and then you say EQing messes everything up? You also don't suggest any EQs that the "pros" use for the final result.

 

I don't know what headphones you use that are perfectly flat. Please list all your equipment so you can educate me on neutrality.

post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaudio View Post


This is heresy I tell you basshead.gif!!  All kidding aside, engineers spend loads of time making adjustments, often times in the order of tenths of a db on EQ's that cost thousands of dollars, and then you guys go around and screw it all up!

 

All eq's have artifacts, even linear phase ones.  Furthermore, most CD's released in the last decade or so were dithered down to 16 bit from 24 bit during the mastering process and often noise shaping was applied as well.  Applying any kind of processing after noise shaping is really not a good idea.

 

Having said all that, if you like the way it sounds, EQ away to your hearts content!



 


To some degree, you are correct. If it was left up to most engineers, solely up to them, then I would agree with you even more. The problem is that most engineers don't get the last word when it comes down to EQ and other nifty tricks. Many corporate executives usually tell them what is good and bad and how to tailor the sound to their liking - not the engineers. Then you have the ever interested "producer" who also has to stick his head in and approve the sound. This is assuming the band members don't chime in with what sounds good to them. This is a major reason a lot of releases sound like crap.

 

This will prove my point:

 

PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER

 

ME

 

Direct B/A comparison

 

Furthermore, if you have some decent high end EQ's, be it analog or digital, you can tailor the sound to your liking without affecting the sound quality in a negative way provided you know what you are doing and have a transparent monitoring chain. That being said, I doubt even 1% of headfi members have that and I doubt even less know how to properly go about doing this the right way.

 

Regardless, it's a free world and if you want to EQ something to match what you like to hear to go ahead and EQ to your hearts content. tongue_smile.gif

 

post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post

 


You also don't suggest any EQs that the "pros" use for the final result.


See post number 14 for mastering quality digital EQ's.

post #41 of 45



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roller View Post





I love how you use "quality" all over the place, as well as hearing "music as it was meant to be heard"

 

I also love how people use both software and hardware EQ on "Low end kit" like HD800, T1, LCD-2, etc. So maybe you should come down from your high horse and greet the commoners. LOL.

 

EQ is meant to correct flaws on both the recording and/or the hardware. Just like lorafenik said, and very well I might add, no set of headphones has a flat frequency, and that makes EQing a part of the sound correction procedures. Yet, not everyone does it, and I fully respect, as they want to appreciate the gear just like it came to them.

 

Some people like EQing, some don't. That's no reason to state that a preference is better than the other.



 I was strictly referring to low end equipment requiring a EQ to sound good while better equipment (I'm not talking about headphones) doesn't need it IMO. I haven't heard a set of cans yet that I would consider truly neutral sounding but I have been looking for a set. I have heard many low level, mid level, and high end speakers & amps and in my experience the mid level and especially the high end kit had a more neutral sound and didn't require an EQ to sound good. Now what sounds natural and good to me might not sound too good to you without an EQ so in the end we all have to do what we must to get that sound we like. I prefer my music to sound as close to what the studio intended and by adjusting the EQ to fit MY needs I feel I'm changing how the song was engineered to be heard.

 

I'm not on any high horse here and I'm only expressing my opinion. You and many others here might not agree with me and thats fine. I'm an avid music lover and I prefer speakers to headphones 95% of the time. I only have headphones for listening at night and while others are in the room. Only recently have I decided to seek out quality cans to use and as you can see in my profile I've been working my way from junk to good and I have a ways to go to find that great set of cans.

 

I am sorry if I came off harsh or elitist. I am most certainly not.

 

 

I should add that I own several audio systems in my home and my formal living room has an older (mid 90's kit) system that I do have a hardware EQ unit hooked up to. That amp alone just doesn't have a good sound. Very bland would be a good way to put it. The EQ makes it come alive. So I'm not completely against using an EQ but that system is lower end IMO and in need of the help.

 


Edited by Amish - 5/3/11 at 3:14pm
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amish View Post



 I was strictly referring to low end equipment requiring a EQ to sound good while better equipment (I'm not talking about headphones) doesn't need it IMO. I haven't heard a set of cans yet that I would consider truly neutral sounding but I have been looking for a set. I have heard many low level, mid level, and high end speakers & amps and in my experience the mid level and especially the high end kit had a more neutral sound and didn't require an EQ to sound good. Now what sounds natural and good to me might not sound too good to you without an EQ so in the end we all have to do what we must to get that sound we like. I prefer my music to sound as close to what the studio intended and by adjusting the EQ to fit MY needs I feel I'm changing how the song was engineered to be heard.

 

I'm not on any high horse here and I'm only expressing my opinion. You and many others here might not agree with me and thats fine. I'm an avid music lover and I prefer speakers to headphones 95% of the time. I only have headphones for listening at night and while others are in the room. Only recently have I decided to seek out quality cans to use and as you can see in my profile I've been working my way from junk to good and I have a ways to go to find that great set of cans.

 

I am sorry if I came off harsh or elitist. I am most certainly not.

 

 

I should add that I own several audio systems in my home and my formal living room has an older (mid 90's kit) system that I do have a hardware EQ unit hooked up to. That amp alone just doesn't have a good sound. Very bland would be a good way to put it. The EQ makes it come alive. So I'm not completely against using an EQ but that system is lower end IMO and in need of the help.

 



Well, you did sound a tad elitist indeed, but given that you explained further what you meant, it's all good, and I appreciate that.

 

Like I said before, the use of EQ can be useful for both correcting any hardware flaws, as well tweaking the sound for entertainment purposes. Lower end gear can indeed benefit more from EQing, but since ALL gear is far from neutral, in one way or another, EQing always has its place and value, IMHO. The only situation where I think EQ needs not to be used is when the whole audio equipment has such an amazing synergy, that is sounds closest to perfection. But then again, tweaking can be seen as half the fun. Personally, I'm still searching for my own sound but, so far, the use of EQ has been of great help to enhance the hardware I've owned from an acceptable sound to a more enjoyable sound, even if still not "there".

 

What I'm trying to say is that there is no right or wrong way to appreciate music, because in the end, the best sound there is for each one of us is the sound we like the best.

post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF View Post




See post number 14 for mastering quality digital EQ's.

I was looking into them and I will probably go buy one of them. Thanks a lot for the suggestions! I like to keep my system as simple, transparent, high quality, and neutral as possible. On the other hand, using good EQs to color music also kept the music more transparent than using equipment such as tubes IME.

 

But I was asking that particular member because he seems so certain of what he's talking about. I have been involved in performances and recordings while in my university and EQing is clearly a common professional thing to do for equipment.

post #44 of 45

Holy Crap, did I open a can of worms!  First off, everybody chill out, I thought I made it pretty clear that if you like to EQ your playback, knock yourself out.  I simply stated why I thought applying EQ was a bad idea, and I thought I was pretty lighthearted about the whole thing.  To add an additional important point, if you are listening to modern pop or rock, most is, sadly, so heavily limited that ANY additive EQ in the digital domain will cause distortion, because the level is already hovering right around 0 dbfs, you are already out of bits, unless of course you are gaining the level down first......

 

To answer Wind016:

Post #38 - For analog EQ, I use the GML 9500. Digital, as mentioned earlier, I like many of the plug-in's mentioned in post 14, for digital hardware my first choice is the Weiss EQ1.  I have Grado RS-1 headphones and a Grace M906 and M902

 

Post#43 - I didn't say that that you should never EQ, I said that EQ'ing a finished product that has most likely been dithered and noise shaped to get down to 16 bits will add undesirable artifacts.  Dithering and noise shaping are the absolute final step in mastering before the CD Master is created. 

 

Your post is contradictory, if you are looking for simple, transparent, and neutral, then applying EQ is the absolute last thing you should do.  Save your money and buy more neutral cans/amp/dac etc.

 

Finally, so you all understand where I'm coming from, I should add that headphones are a tool for me.  I don't particularly enjoy listening to music on them, and only use them a very small percentage of the time, the majority of the time I'm working on speakers.....

 

Cheers!

post #45 of 45

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaudio View Post

 

  I have Grado RS-1 headphones and a Grace M906 and M902

 

 

Your post is contradictory, if you are looking for simple, transparent, and neutral, then applying EQ is the absolute last thing you should do.  Save your money and buy more neutral cans/amp/dac etc.

 

Finally, so you all understand where I'm coming from, I should add that headphones are a tool for me.

 

confused.gif Why are you using Grados? Grado headphones are the last headphones for me to ever consider neutral, but if you want to use those as a tool, by all means. However, if you are not EQing those to be flat, then you are no where close to hearing what your music is supposed to sound like, but I wouldn't bother trying to EQ them flat. Grado headphones and rock (or almost any music) IME have almost always sounded congested. Maybe that is what you are experiencing?

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