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Flat sound vs. "fun sound"...so flat isn't fun? - Page 6

post #76 of 90

Hey, I consider any amount of ringing unnatural. The less the better.

So I might rephrase it as "almost all BA IEMs and planar armature". Happy now?

Since there are a bunch that don't have ringy bass (mostly very highest end).

post #77 of 90

Why can't folks just say oops? I've done lots of times. Square waves are a tool and the minor amount of ringing by every driver in that comparison, including the IE8 doesn't necessarily directly relate to music and they all have similar amounts except the MC3.

 

I'm happy when there's a consensus so I guess not.


Edited by goodvibes - 5/31/11 at 12:56pm
post #78 of 90

Now you are making the assumption that most BA IEMs have similar amount of ringing to GR8.

No, they don't, not even some high end ones. Only a few have little ringing, one of those being SA6 and part of the reason why I bought it.

(I was disappointed with those mostly due to horrible build quality - yes, it's broken again now, I'm not playing "switch the cable" game the third time.)

 

Heck, almost all full size headphones have very ringing bass. The main problem is that you can't have non-ringy bass and good high frequency response in a single driver design - the best you can do is compromise.

(Note that's part of the reason why speakers are at least 2-way and usually 3-way.)

 

Dynamic driver IEMs have it far easier, because they don't need to move lots of air, thus the amplitude/frequency coefficient is lower, so their natural dampening is enough.

 

Yes, I've elevated being a bass-head to an art form now. smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by AstralStorm - 5/31/11 at 1:06pm
post #79 of 90

You're the one making assumptions. I'm the one saying to take them all on an individual basis regardless of type and there's plenty of full bandwidth single armature units out there.

 

Speakers are 2 and 3 way because of the amount of air mass they need to move in the bass needs a large heavy driver. Dispersion also becomes an issue. This is very different than IEMs where everything is already much lighter than any speaker tweeter. The free air transfer function is very different to an IEM that makes bass and more as a pistonic pressure wave in the canal.


Edited by goodvibes - 5/31/11 at 3:10pm
post #80 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by twylight View Post

Flat is supposed to mean a db chart is "flat" to a correction of +- 3db

 

So many speakers and other products dont add that little "+- 3db" which makes all the charts just junk.

 

The lower a device can go +-3db the better the true bass response is, headphones are full of fail in this regard.

 

Another thing that makes headphones hard to measure is the without a properly calibrated mic than can detect such low DB of sound - its very hard to get a decent measurement.  Heck full size speakers need a $100us mic and properly tuned software and they are easy to measure.

 

I would rather have flat response that doesnt roll off too high and goes as low as possible as +-3db instead of colored...plus its fun to play with the sound.  If you start with a big bass hump at 100hz, you can never really fix that.

 

I find the whole "loudness war" more damaging than "OMG this isnt a flat response curve".

 

My advice = buy the FOTM and get rid of it quick if you dont like it - very little lost time and money to experiment.


This is exactly how I feel.  30 day returns are available everywhere, why not take advantage?

 

And I laugh every time I see specs posted for external drivers than don't post a +/- dB correction.  It would be a lot like having a nutrition label which didn't define serving sizes, or have units behind their numbers.  It means nothing.

 

post #81 of 90

If you are comparing "flat" and "fun" you are already making a mistake of categories. A flat response is a technical term while "fun" is purely emotive. As someone already mentioned- you can have a fun listening experience when listening to any headphone. When someone says that a headphone has a flat response or that it has hump, bump or extension here and there I can already pretty accurately imagine what is he talking about. On the other hand if someone writes that a headphone is "fun" then I can just tell that he is having a good time with it. Or that the sound is colourated. In any case I must know the reviewer really well to tell if I can relate to his tastes.

 

The real discussion might be the whole "flat" versus "colourated" thing. As far as my experience tells the [heavily] colourated headphones are initially much fun but I get tired of them real quick. For some records my Grado sr80i is perfect though if a recording has anything to do with the loudness war- the whole listening becomes more of fight. Sometimes I can feel my teeth clenching because of the midrange and trebble attack that is not present in older recordings. That might not be the case with a more flat headphone.


Edited by RudeWolf - 6/1/11 at 3:00am
post #82 of 90

Everybody is too frequency response oriented. I prefer a more linear response but I can pick 2 different phones with near same and one will be analytical and or dull and the other more lively and colorful. There's lot's more to this like how it handles dynamics or complex music. Fun and frequency response aren't directly related unless you require a certain tonal aberration to enjoy it and that's strictly personal.

post #83 of 90

Well sometimes it's not much fun when you realise that your favourite band has always had a shite sound engineer.

post #84 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeWolf View Post

Well sometimes it's not much fun when you realise that your favourite band has always had a shite sound engineer.



or they had a good engineer, but the band disagreed! (I think there is a lot of that)

post #85 of 90

Flat is fun. buat what is flat ? :D

some people said HD650 is flat. some people said HD800 is flat

post #86 of 90

I used to think I needed a lot of bass to enjoy the music.  That was until I purchased my first AKGs and discovered how much i enjoy actually hearing ALL the frequencies.  I'm with you guys.  Bass heavy headphones just annoy me.  

post #87 of 90

Just thought fun headphone is like flat but with a few edges to spice it up. A little bit of low mid to make things big, a little bit of treble for agressiveness, That will be a perfect fun headphone for me :)

post #88 of 90

My HD 600 server me just fine with any genre. And I think that headphone is consider pretty flat.

However, I can live with my M50s just fine too. They have that V-shape, but "flat" vs "fun" really depends on what you want to hear. 

Aside from listening to music, I use my HD 600 for producing / mixing, (because I can't really get monitors till I move out) and that's something you should never do on "fun" headphones unless you've used them for 5+ years and have plenty of flat audio equipment to reference to. (Because then you know what they sound like, and how to compensate for that).

post #89 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandvichDISH View Post

My HD 600 server me just fine with any genre. And I think that headphone is consider pretty flat.

However, I can live with my M50s just fine too. They have that V-shape, but "flat" vs "fun" really depends on what you want to hear. 

Aside from listening to music, I use my HD 600 for producing / mixing, (because I can't really get monitors till I move out) and that's something you should never do on "fun" headphones unless you've used them for 5+ years and have plenty of flat audio equipment to reference to. (Because then you know what they sound like, and how to compensate for that).


Yeah~! good one mate. Same here, I need a flat system when I mix. Otherwise will never be able to decide on that 0.2 dB cut on EQ.

post #90 of 90

Flat sound becomes fun as time passes by ....

Its a classic rookie mistake.

I used to use a absurd EQ and thought that was dynamic (Fun :P)

Boy was I wrong , flat is something you really want (The Brain is a funny thing)

Dynamic at its best.

Give it some days and then you will love the Flat :D 

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