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Logitech's Squeezebox Touch - opinions sought on quality - Page 7

post #91 of 314

What mods if any do you guys use with your Touch???

 

What type of machines are you using as servers???

 

Do you go USB out, Toslink, or Coax???

 

 

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #92 of 314
No mods for me, and Coax out, sounded slightly better then Toslink.
post #93 of 314

I have the Bolder Cable digital mods.  I can't give any with/without comparisons, though.  Wayne did his mods to my SB3, and the results were so obvious, I never even bothered evaluating the Touch without them.  I had my Touch delivered straight to Bolder when I ordered it, so mine came to me brand new with the digital mods.  Wayne does very clearly state, however, that there are huge sonic improvements to the Touch over the SB3, and the Touch sounds about as good in stock form as the SB3 sounded after being modded.

 

I use the coax digi out into my W4S DAC2.

post #94 of 314

Btw, there are some tweaks that you can do for free.  I haven't done the software mods yet, but I have read on several forums that the results are spectacular, so I fully intend on doing these:

 

Edit:  (link corrected)

 

http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html

 

 

post #95 of 314

Yes I did those mods.  Yes they work.

 

Note: I have conversed with Soundcheck for a few years when he was into Linux/Music Player Daemon.  I know the guy, I know his talents first hand....he is the real deal, he knows what he is doing.  Probably about 5 years ago I started trying to get my Linux box up and running. Soundcheck helped me out a lot, he has spent a very long time playing around with the innards of Linux-audio and he knows how to eek out the best from the OS.  Since the Touch is Linux based he jumped at the chance to make it sound better, simply by using his pre-existing tweaks for the Touch.

 

There are a few people around the net who really know their stuff, John Swenson and Soundcheck are two of them.  Sadly another Al Sekela passed away recently but he was another.

 

 

post #96 of 314

^Those tweaks don't hold for the SB3 right? Anything similar you know of perhaps?  Beacuse the audible improvements that you've described earlier (more 'open' sound) are exactly what i desire to improve upon..

post #97 of 314


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post

What mods if any do you guys use with your Touch???

 

What type of machines are you using as servers???

 

Do you go USB out, Toslink, or Coax???

 

 

I got the Bolder digital mod. Like nspindel I never had the chance to compare with stock. I'm no expert but I somehow suspect more could be done to further improve on this. Better clock, better regulators, etc. Server is an old PC under XP SP3.  Touch is connected BNC to BNC on EE DAC. 

Another company(Audiocom) offers similar mods with the possibility of a WBT RCA for the digital output. I had asked Wayne if he could replace the stock connector with a BNC one. He told me it was IMPOSSIBLE to do.

Despite my limited DIY skills I ended up doing it myself messing up the LCD flat cable connector in the process. DOH

 

Bolder digital mods $300

Quote:
The mods start out with improving power supply delivery and decoupling to the critical digital sections. We then install a custom voltage regulator circuit just for the digital output section and clocks. This cleans up the harsh sounding high end, lower the overall noise floor and extends the low end and enhances definition.

Audiocom level 1 upgrade £198.20

Quote:
Sanyo OS-CON SVP decoupling for Realtek chip.
Sanyo OS-CON SC decoupling for clock circuit.
Sanyo OS-CON SC regulation bypass for 3.3V digital regulator (DAC, Clock, CODEC).
Low noise, wideband regulator for 3.3V digital circuitry (DAC, Clock, CODEC).
Bybee Slipstream Purifier for digital output.
WBT NextGen RCA cu for digital output.
Audio Consulting Silver wire for digital output.

 

Audiocom level 2 upgrade £277.90

Quote:
Bybee Slipstream Purifier for DC input.

Stillpoints ERS EMI/RFI Cloth.
Sanyo OS-CON SVP decoupling for Realtek chip.
Sanyo OS-CON SC decoupling for clock circuit.
Low noise, wideband regulator for 3.3V digital circuitry (DAC, Clock, CODEC).
Low noise, wideband regulator for 3.3V media processor supply.
Sanyo OS-CON SC regulation bypass for 3.3V digital regulator (DAC, Clock, CODEC).
Bybee Slipstream Purifier for digital output.
WBT NextGen RCA cu for digital output.
Audio Consulting Silver wire for digital output.

 


 

 


Edited by Turn&cough - 7/5/11 at 4:27pm
post #98 of 314

The Touch is an excellent source. Its better than my cPlay + CMP OS tweaked computer. Its better than any CD player I have owned.

I run mine into a very good DAC. I use all of soundchecks mods.

A basic linear power supply like a linear wall wart would be a small improvement over the stock PS. A really good linear supply with big capacitance and low noise regulator is better.

I use a fairly nice linear power supply with an ultra low noise / low ripple circuit after it feeding the touch. It is a very big improvement to the sound. I never used the analog outputs of the touch, only the coax spdif. Every improvement I made to the power supply was easily heard using the spdif output. Putting a really good power supply on the touch is well worth doing.

If you already tried some of these things and notice no difference, its time to upgrade the rest of your system, because the touch with good power supply feeding a good DAC will compete with very expensive CD players, tweaked computer transports, or whatever. As far as transports go, with the above mods, its well up there with some of the best.

Without mods of any sort, its sort of just above average.

 

post #99 of 314

Can you elaborate on slightly above average with no mods? Reason i ask is because I'm trying to make a decision on a transport for my new system. I still need to get an amp/dac which will be the next battle, but i really want to solidify the transport. I'm deciding between the SBT and an Onkyo SACD player C-s5VL. I have a good amount of CDs that aren't ripped, but also a lot of random FLAC files scattered around my computer. I'm really not well versed in computer audio or hooking up different sources to an amp etc, and doing all sorts of mods. I'm a 'by the book' kind of guy. Which do you think might be best for me? SACD player looks cool because it has a decent dac and i'd be interested in trying some SACDs. But at the same time, the best audio I've heard yet to date (sadly) is flac via usb to my fiio E7/E9 combo to my Sony SA5ks. I'm mulling over the purchase of a nfb-2 or 3 and a Schiit amp. Do you think the squeezebox might be my best route? or should i take the plunge and get the Onkyo which is about $70 more?

 

Thanks in advance  

post #100 of 314

Well, right now i'm convincing myself i won't need a SB Touch, since i use the Airport Express and i feel that i won't hear any diference at all, can anyone who've heard both side by side chime in?

(My setup is: iMac > AE > Lyngdorf TDAi > Xavian XN-250 Evo) controlled via iPad.

post #101 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle00Jesse View Post

Can you elaborate on slightly above average with no mods? Reason i ask is because I'm trying to make a decision on a transport for my new system. I still need to get an amp/dac which will be the next battle, but i really want to solidify the transport. I'm deciding between the SBT and an Onkyo SACD player C-s5VL. I have a good amount of CDs that aren't ripped, but also a lot of random FLAC files scattered around my computer. I'm really not well versed in computer audio or hooking up different sources to an amp etc, and doing all sorts of mods. I'm a 'by the book' kind of guy. Which do you think might be best for me? SACD player looks cool because it has a decent dac and i'd be interested in trying some SACDs. But at the same time, the best audio I've heard yet to date (sadly) is flac via usb to my fiio E7/E9 combo to my Sony SA5ks. I'm mulling over the purchase of a nfb-2 or 3 and a Schiit amp. Do you think the squeezebox might be my best route? or should i take the plunge and get the Onkyo which is about $70 more?

 

Thanks in advance  

The SB Touch is very good in terms of low jitter as it is, and has as huge amout of people around the world tweaking it to get even more SQ - even though it is VERY good for the money.

However - SBT is an audio file player/transport, so this means doing a lot of ripping redface.gif - before you really can sit down and enjoy the music darthsmile.gif

 

SBT is limited to 96kHz - if that's an issue for you.

 

post #102 of 314
I have two pretty basic questions for you sbt owners out there.

1. After the initial server setup and scan of your computer for files, does the computer have to be ON and running for the sbt to play your files over the home wifi connection? My laptop is big and clunky and the battery is completely shot, this would be a deal breaker.

2. Can the sbt play files from 2 different computers, or is it locked to one? I could probably just put them on an external, but I stepped on the screen and can barely see a damn thing. It would be clutch if I can just do a quick scan with squeezebox server and have all files from both the broken laptop and my working but terrible laptop That would be ideal.

Thanks
post #103 of 314
Anyone anyone bueller bueller

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post #104 of 314

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Edited by ursdiego - 7/20/11 at 2:32pm
post #105 of 314

How I get REALLY GREAT SOUND out of the Squeezebox "Touch". With the ~ 1000$ external DAC, it outperforms my ~ 1300$ Creek CD player. Its not cheaper, but more convenient, in particular, if you envisage using downloaded music and hd files such as eg from hdtracks. It's said, that with the right modifications and through a decent amp-speaker/Headphone - chain, you may get quite decent sound out of the analog rca outputs. However, I have only used the coax digital out, so here is how I did it:

 

It MAY sound really great. But it won't when you take it out of the box.

 

What you have to do:

 

1. Use an external server. I suggest using a "REAL" computer, windows xp seems to be best. Don't use just a NAS that can run squeezeserver, as these have quite limited CPU power - and this power is needed to nicely decode the streams. I use an old Notebook, it does the job very nicely. And of course: connect the computer by LAN - Wire to your router, not via wifi!

 

2. Make sure you update to the latest firmware (not because of sound quality, but it will not stop asking you to update, and this will always require that you factory-reset and do all the following steps again)

 

3. Use lossless files and re-encode them to FLAC compression level 0. I have made good experiences re-encoding FLAC to FLAC with LameXP (gives me files that play flawlessly. While re-encoding with foobar2000 gives sometimes files that are interrupted when playing back. I don't know why, but it happened several times. In particular FLAC files downloaded from Internet such as HDTracks.com need re-encoding as the are sometimes faulty, and the squeezebox touch seems to be very sensitive about that).

 

4. Configure the touch and the server according to Klaus' http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html (disable all sound effects, volume, etc. and turn off the screen as far as possible, enable remote session, FLAC decoding at the server)

 

5. No WiFi at the Touch! I use a WiFi type N Network. For the Touch, I use a WiFi access point configured to operate in reverse mode. That means, it connects to my home WiFi Network and connects to the Squeezebox Touch via wired LAN. Use a nice Cat. 6 Lan - wire and remove the shielding at some centimeters.

 

6. Do all software-mods listed at http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html .

 

7. DONATE KLAUS!!! You WILL hear the difference in sound quality only after donating ;-) ! Speaking seriously: A little donation is really worth all that stuff and tests Klaus does for Touch-users.

 

8. Upgrade or fix the nosy original power supply. I use a linear power supply, that I equipped myself with "super teddy reg" and that filter you find on Klaus' page.

 

9. I use a nice external DAC. I would recommend using one of capable of De-Jittering (re-clocking) and reproducing 24bit 96 khz streams. I use an Audio-GD reference 9 DAC. As said before, some say that with Klaus' mods, you will even get decent sound quality out of the analog outputs, but you would have to judge for yourself, as I never have used them.

 

10. Now it REALLY sounds "audiophile" - if connected to a decent preamp-amp-etc.!

 

11. If you rip CDs, do a really careful ripping! Some interesting things about that are here: http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/05/cd-extraction-study.html

 

... my next step: I will get myself a squeezebox controller in order to completely disable the screen at the touch (with Klaus' screen mod).

 

Now, with all those hardware upgrades and the donation to Klaus, you will more than double the price you payed for the Touch alone. However, you will still get a very nice sounding network audio player, that might compare to systems much more expensive than that (just compare for example to http://www.resolutionaudio.com/cantata.html - very nice gear, but costs around 5000$).

 

I hope that helped!

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